 January 8, 2012 - 3:49pm | Looking for some explanation here. Many things in Star Frontiers were presented with an air of atmosphere and not a basis in fact. One of these areas I feel is most abused is the description of SpaceFleet Enlisted. Although the officers of the Spacefleet represent some of the finest individuals in the Frontier, the same cannot be said for the crews of Spacefleet ships. The enlisted members of the fleet come from all walks of life. The fleet always is short of crew members, so the requirements for enlistment are not rigorous. No checking is done regarding a crew member's background or abilities; consequently, a great amount of galactic riffraff has found a home in the crew's quarters of Spacefleet vessels. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 3, 2012 - 1:45pm | Here's a take on what caused this. Patriotism. One thing we in America forget is that any large government made up of smaller governments are typical NOT like the US. Each of the planets on the Frontier is a very independent entity. This is how America first got formed and for the first about 150+ years acted. The Federal government only slowly gained power and influence. SO while the Officers come because of the superior tech and opportunities and chances for advancement of Spacefleet with its larger officer corp. The enlisted could do the same without leaving home so that leaves only those who do not have or are running from one wanting to enlist in Spacefleet. Imagine Captain Kirk youngest ship captain in Spacefleet history. He is commanding a heavy cruiser and patroling the entire Frontier for Sathar, adventure, hot women and a chance to take his shirt off. Now if he was a militia officer the best he could hope for is (in most cases) commanding a frigate and cruising around the same solar system for 100 plus years (they do live a long time). Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 February 3, 2012 - 9:41pm | That is certainly an idea, and I like it. Its probably not the whole story. And I 'm sure a tight budgets are nothing new for militaries so while that could contribute I doubt it could explain the problem. While working today I imagined a dralasite bearucat named Mais Maltar (rhymes with Gaius Baltar ) who has connections to Malthar on the Outer Reach. He's well placed to influence how money is spent and in a situation of shrinking budgets is able to push through the purchase of new frigate designs so that not sold old frigate designed can go into the program to be sold at cut rate prices to militias. This is a way to legally funnel fairly new frigate s to Outer Reach and then into the hands of pirates. Out Reach is the single largest buyer of "mothballed" Space Fleet ships. The situation is frustrating to flag officers but civilian control of the military is part of the UPF 's principles. Maltar's corruption only makes the budget situation worse. Perhaps he's also positioned high enough to influence personnel policies as well which would be another nail in the coffin. Perhaps for a few years he's made it possible to fill the ranks with personnel with allegiance to Outer Reach. Golwin Academy's commandant has had to bend to civilian control but didn't just step through the airlock yesterday and is determined to maintain the keen edge in the officer corp. So he sees to it bad apples get busted out and has certain instructors who will make a project of particular cases when necessary. Taken all together with ratT's suggestion and I think you get a pretty lousy situation in the decade leading upto SW2. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 3, 2012 - 10:18pm | I didn't really decide whether Maltar is a politician or beaurocrat but on further reflection it seems he would need to be a politician and an equal opertunity offender when it comes to taking kick backs from both criminals and Mega corps. Just did a sketch of Maius Maltar the corrupt civilian head of Space Fleet (this is just a picture snapped with the smart phone)   Anyone want to propose what exactly Maltar's position is and its relationship to Space Fleet? EDIT: Just realized how close The Malthar is to Maltar. I was only trying to base the name on Baltar from the New BSG since I loved to watch that character. Maltar is probably too close to Malthar and it will be confusing. Probably need a new name for this NPC too. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 4, 2012 - 8:00am | This actually fits really well. A military force with a dozen+ nations providing personnel could easily fall victim to corrupt policy makers in a loose confederation. The only modern parallel I can think of right now is the UN, now imagine the UN forces being made up of enlisted chosen by the worst kinds of governments today. They would easily get the title Riff Raff. This would lead to a political situation where governments fought to maintain political influence in the UPF so as to keep the nations that trended towards providing Riff Raff on the side lines. Initially I'd think that the UPF and world governments did not concern itself with who was providing the enlisted until it went out of whack. Then there would be fierce competition to keep the problematic governments out of the recruitment process. I imagine that the UPF does not have permanent members of it's equivalent of the security council so this is a real issue for them. The question now is who are the world governments that are corrupt and tend to provide Riff Raff? -iggy |
February 4, 2012 - 9:35am | So are you suggesting a situation where the enlisted are technically part of the home world's military but currently on loan to Space Fleet? Conversely, the officer corp is well and Tully Space Fleet having to apply and then pass through the academy. That seems like a situation with potential for problems and abuse. I can easily see planetary militaries sending Space Fleet those that it would rather do without. This would put planetary militias in a new light as far as quality and elan only falling behind Space Fleet in equipment and hulls. Space Fleet is no slouch as its officer corp is very high quality but it does have this one nagging and persistent problem connected to its enlisted personnel. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 4, 2012 - 9:58am | I wasn't actually thinking of on-loan troops like the UN does but rather recruitment quotas and the politician pushing money back to his constituents. Our corrupt politician favors getting the enlistment quotas unbalanced toward his home world to help with unemployment problems and to increase his tax base. He may even modify the skills requirements so that he can get his unemployable employed. I imagine that space fleet personnel remain citizens of their own home world and pay taxes to their own governments. The UPF is after all a confederation and not a federal government. -iggy |
February 5, 2012 - 10:07pm | I was thinking about this while driving back from Pocatello today. Spacefleet can't be like the UN with 100% loaned troops because they are a permanent standing force that patrols the Frontier. They are a combine force WITHOUT allegiance to any one government. UN troops can always pack up and go home if their government calls them back. I don't see the UPF personnel having that option. It you sign up you are in for your full contract and your world can't just pull you back because the political winds changed. Is there any thing like this in the history of the Earth? If it works like this then the various member worlds of the UPF would compete to get the highest percentage of the officers so as to gain the most influence. Competing for the highest percentage of enlisted may not be valuable because they are not the leadership. In-fact this may encourage a system where the enlisted are downgraded in status because their function does not benefit the political model. This idea is burning in my mind but not yet sharp. I need input from you guys, especially those with military experience beyond mine. -iggy |
 February 6, 2012 - 2:59am | An example in history of something that might help. Back in the sailing ship days they would gangpress men into service. Basically kidnapping or rounding up criminals. This happened in government ships as well as pirates. On the government ship the would have minimal crew who were skilled and the rest would have to do. Not that the UPF would do this, but maybe in the beginning it went something like, filling spacefleet ranks with whomever they could find. After that it developed into something more. So the riff-raff model might only point to the beginning. |
February 6, 2012 - 3:04am | I went back and reread this thread. Jedion, you had already mentioned the British Navy similarity. I thought that Shadow Shack's and Spirit Coyote's Ideas were a good place to begin. |
February 6, 2012 - 7:39am | Building off Iggy's UN comment; what if its something like during the American Civil War where individual states raised regiments and offered them to the Federal government? Except here its not about raising a unit but simply about providing a certain quota of personnel to the common defense. Each world would handle meeting its quota its own way and the temptation to empty the jails as it were would be hard to resist on many worlds. This would NOT be the model on all worlds. On a vrusk colony one trade house will have arranged to raise and educate all of that world's quota and all other trade houses pay them for doing this and relieving them of the burden to provide warm bodies for the draft. This trade house's business is mercenaries and security and when draftees return they have a secure job with the company. The company gets highly trained and experienced personnel and other companies pay them to raise and train them. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 6, 2012 - 7:58am | I believe historically that militias in the US, during times of war, were under the control of the commander and chief. A state just simply couldn't call them back because uncle bubba and his boys are causing problems with the revenuers. However, once their enlistment was up, they were free to return to their homes, much to the frustration of the military leaders. Not unlike the government heavily using the national guard in the middle east. And as we have seen, their tours of duty can easily be lengthened. I can see a SF UN-type situation where soldiers and citizen soldiers are on long term loan to the UPF either to fill the ranks of soldiers or officers. Officers would most likely have longer contract periods than the grunts. |
February 6, 2012 - 8:18am | With the quotas the enlisted would not necessarily be part of the planetary militia. Of courses of with a quota you have to have a census. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 6, 2012 - 8:58am | The closest I was thinking was state raised units in the US Civil War. So the enlisted are provided on a quota basis per some verbiage in the UPF treaty. The officers are too, but the catch there is that if you have the hearts and minds of the officers then you can get the UPF to do side projects and service for your government. Those systems that can not provide sufficient officers to play the political game end up just providing their quota because they have too and hold their best for their own militias. Thus the UPF gets Riff-Raff. This does provide enough Riff-Raff for the timeline statement. Not all enlisted are Riff-Raff and maybe only 10% are true Riff-Raff, but a small group can make the populace think all are. I like the vrusk idea from above and would include it. Those vrusk are getting their tax money back in training for their personnel. -iggy |
February 6, 2012 - 9:24am | Isn't that the way? A few rotten apples spoil it for the rest. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 7, 2012 - 4:03am | The War of 1812 era you had militias and Regulars. Militias controlled by the states and Regulars answering to the Federal Government. Now those militias were not permanent standing forces like the SF militias but the similarity in allegiances is close. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 February 16, 2012 - 8:56pm | The situation is only partially a basis of comparison to an Early Union... it is also a basis on Greek City-States... and the pre-antiquity Hindu, Middle-east, & African colonialism era to go back even further... and you can (and really should) think about such relevance a little further back in history. My reason is that the other parts of the puzzle for The Frontier's many World Governments having strong independence and insist-able autaonamy is shear a scope of the space involved, the sizes and number of culturally independent populations and the overall cultural-rifting that comes from that geographic isolation, and the reality of lurking terrors in the unexplored unknown filling those spaces -; often right in their own back-yard -; that keeps that isolation and self-reliant mentality a survival consideration... Consider that the Frontier does not represent a continued series of progressions from some common antiquity on a single home-world scale, but is a loose arrangement of the four mostly friendly companions they all mutually know of - and even there, trust-ability is a proven uncertainty - braving in a new unknown that is dangerous and largely unexplored wilderness and expansive territory, where-in it takes months ... perhaps years... to mark a reliable trail of scalable size... agree on boundaries and ownerships, and start to really dig in for mutually exploitable gains. No one has even the faintest assurance that speculations of "whats around the next corner..." are remotely accurate, and in this environment they have built an entirely new civilization from scratch... invested in new technologies still largely unproven... learned harsh survival lessons only after catastrophic failures.... and faced-down a brink of collapse (arguably DID collapse) several times in those short few-days on a civilization's scale... A home-world by comparison has access (by our example) to 80,000 years of the same in a single biome... and has much more readily been dropped back to the "stone-age" in an observable fashion in that time... the oldest of the surviving historic continuities being no more than 10-30k years of that at best and most lenient... so don't under-estimate the set-backs felt in the Frontiers short >1k year history, or the impact on social psychology those set-backs have imparted... Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
February 16, 2012 - 9:00pm | The different planets may not have as different culture as we like to think. Given the relative young age of the Frontier and longer life spans of the inhabitants and that all these worlds have common races and starting points not to mention the Mega-corps selling common merchandise on all worlds we have a situation not really seen on Earth. Of course difference between the races and cultural differences within the races (such as the Family of One) could lead to some differences but still alot more consistency. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 16, 2012 - 9:10pm | PGC culture is everywhere and pervasive as it is also in the media and holo vids. Its seeping into the consciousness of the Frontier. Older generations are decrying the commercialism and info-tainment of this rising dominent culture. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 16, 2012 - 9:37pm | I realize there are outlets and lines between common traffic centers of cosmopolitan culture... I don't think a Frontier is going to be all one cosmopolitan super-culture. A point is; cultural expectations, and informational media of importance, achives disparity of observable amount in a single spicies, on a single planet, when comparing two sides of a single city... The Frontier is taking that same situation and adding three more entirely different species... there is little for the population of a mixed species government to agree on... other than simple things of obvious cooperation... "you don't osmosis my unhatched eggs, and I don't poison your slug-farm with pheromones..." Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
