 February 9, 2012 - 6:17pm | In East Asia the Chop is a seal, carved from a small block of wood or ivory that usually says something like "This is the seal of [insert name]" A chop is a legal signature used in documents and art. At its most basic its a block print. Because they are carved from wood or ivory you get a unique print like a finger print. I was thinking that this is an interesting custom and that we should barrow it for one of the races; vrusk and ifshnit are the ones that jump out to me. I was also thinking we could update it, make it more sci-fi ish. Perhaps a Laser chop. based of the laser scalpel from the med kit. Perhaps a wand with a patterned plate at one end. inside is a laser etcher that etches that pattern when pressed against paper, plastics, metal, even flesh would be possible. But then I guess since its not organic like the Japanese chop (wood or ivory) then it would be easy to duplicate and thus useless for a signature. Not exactly sure what to do with this yet, have to think on it away. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 9, 2012 - 7:02pm | ...and here I thought you'd bought a motorcycle and had plans of chopping it. A high tech notary device, I like it. |
February 9, 2012 - 8:07pm | A high tech notary device, I like it. Thats the idea but I'm not happy with it yet. So... ifshnit or vrusk? who developed this? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 9, 2012 - 10:56pm | In Japan the signature stamp or "chop" is called a Hanko and they can range from the persons name, family crest, business, or significant / meaningful name, word, or phrase. The good ones are hand made usually from soap stone, ivory, marble or carved exotic wood and stone mixtures. Most use a heavy almost waxy ink to make the signature mark. In China and Japan they are recognized as valid signatures and thus are very valuable to each individual who owns one. I would suggest for Sci-Fi to use an small clyndircal device that can only be activated by the owners biometric data (such as fingerprint or retinal scan) and inscribes the permanent mark with a low powered laser etch. Each mark is precise and unique to avoid counterfeiting and the device can only be activated by it owners biometric data. I wouldnt price these too high, but obviously the better the quality the harder to forge and the higher the price. A real Hanko made by a qualified artist will run you about $150.00 to $300.00 for a traditional design. You can get a cheap one around $70 to $90 but the seal will be small with limited number of characters. Now obviously the laser one is more expensive due to the electronics but I still would keep the prices reasonable. Another technology you could use is a glove that makes a laser etch of the wearers finger / digit print or hand print for document authentication. The wearer simply slips on the glove, turns it on, waits a moment for the device to cycle then places their hand on the document and the interior of the glove scans the hand and the exterior of the glove etches the scan onto the paper. Etching is important because its more substantial, harder to duplicate, and holds more value then printing. Printed authentications like a auto-pen are fairly easy to duplicate, copy, or forge and thus hold little value for authenticity or legality. Dralisite authenti-gloves would etch a vascular print of the dral hand or digit as dralisite finger prints would be nearly useless for identification as they can strectch and change form. The lasers in the glove or stamp would actually cut the mark into the paper as opposed to just printing the mark into the fibers. Each document that is authenti-sealed is unique in the depth and characterisitics of the laser cutting elements to each artisan that makes them. In paperless transaction the glove or stamp would create a multilayered 3d hologram of the finger print / ahnd print that is recorded by the data pad and stored in memory. Each time the autheni-seal is used it encodes the exact date, time, location etc, into the encoding in encrypted form into the hologram. Forging a autheni-seal is extremely difficult, its easier to steal the device and hack into it to alter the data of a stored print then to try to reproduce it as a forgery. Obviously the lower the quality of the device the lower the price and higher chance of it being forged or duplicated. |
February 9, 2012 - 11:05pm | So... ifshnit or vrusk? who developed this?
The Vrusk developed it, the Ifshnits marketed them.  |
 February 9, 2012 - 11:19pm | Yes, this is Vrusk. With their exoskeleton fingers their natural development of writing would be scratching into surfaces and pressing into clays. This then easily leads to scratching your name onto something and pressing it into clay and later sheets with pigments. This lead me to a sudden cool idea. What if vrusk writing is symmetrical so that it is based on supporting impression making? Thus words would be like, xox, oxo, IuI, wioiw, and so forth. But in some cool geometric scratch and poke form. BTW one of the cool things from my working the past few years with companies in Taiwan and China is that some Taiwanese friends put a lot of thought into a Chinese name for me and I got a chop of it. I stamp it on my business cards. -iggy |
 February 10, 2012 - 2:21am | WOW those Asians or (Vrusk in SF) are really great, coming up with something to sign documents that was hard to copy. Not like Europeans would think of like having a seal which could be impressed into something like wax so you knew a document was real or even put the seal on a rolled up document so you would know if it was looked at before it got to you. Don't get upset, just pointing out this is an old technology not specific to one region. OH BY THE WAY the modern equivalent is the hologram stamp. Look at your credit/debit card or some officially licensed sports products for examples. In SF everyone is supposed to have an ID card which is there bank and medical and general can't do anything without card. The laser seal would need to put a symbol that was on the beings ID card onto the paper so easy identification could be made. With the Vrusk there could be both individual and corporate symbols OR a corporate symbol with small space left blank in which the individual inserted their symbol. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 10, 2012 - 6:17am | What if its a laser that etches a biometric from your body into a hologram. The biometric is unique :fingerprint, retinal scan, etc and the hologram proves you signed the item. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 10, 2012 - 7:28am | Problems: 1) Fingerprints are caused by oils on the hand being left behind. Not sure Vrusk and Dralasite have these. 2) Retinal patterns. Again the Vrusk eye may not lend itself to this. The Dralasite is OK. Solution: The simpliest biometric is your DNA. Everyone has it. The seal is two sided. One a laser which imprints the seal as a DNA code. The other is a DNA reader which confirms the being is the right one. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 10, 2012 - 11:39am | Canon AD mentions something about dralasite print patterns on their rubbery flesh that are unique, much in the same way a fingerprint is. And since rubber is just another form of oil...just kidding, but I don't see why a dral couldn't produce oil. And while a vrusk wears his chitin outside his flesh, I could see the hands and feet being bare in order to better grip various objects. As for the vrusk retinal pattern, if you cut one, does he not bleed? Yep, they have vessels in their eyes as well. |
February 10, 2012 - 5:12pm | So you are saying you go around cutting the eyes out of Vrusk? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 10, 2012 - 6:21pm | Heck no, I use a giant magnifying glass and burn 'em out. |
 February 14, 2012 - 10:18am | I think the difference between Asian and European seals is that in Asia, they were not just for the ruling class or the religious class. And they are still used today and hold legal weight. In Europe, they existed for the elite and have fallen out of use over the years. I think that this was the point of inspiration. It is in fact very old tech. And to be honest, I think that having some old tech and ancient traditions in your SF world is a fine way to spice it up. I wouldn't raise the tech too high. Perhaps a combination of aspects could increase security. Perhaps the signet, or chop, could impart a unique radioactive signature and the seal material (wax or ink) could have it's own unique bio-chemical signature. The combination of the three uniquenesses would not be impossible to to counterfeit (but what really is), however it would make it much more problematic. How would you use something like this in an adventure? Would it focus on forgery or would it simply flavor a story? I can see the chop of some famous person or group (now defunct or long dead) being a valuable collectible item. Something to steal, protect or sale on the black market. |
February 14, 2012 - 3:57pm | Using the Chop 1) The PCs are hired to deliver one to an important business being but her competitors would rather it didn't happen. Fun ensues. 2) A chop arrives for one of the PCs who did not order it but a letter explains it is an old family heirloom and they are now in charge of it and must meet certain requirements to receive their inheritance. 3) Same as above except the chop is a forgery sent by one an enemy who has alerted the local authorities that the PC are dealers in forged chops. 4) Two rival members of the same family both want the same chop and it is decided the PCs will decide who gets it. Both sides are not playing fair. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 15, 2012 - 7:26pm | 3) Same as above except the chop is a forgery sent by one an enemy who has alerted the local authorities that the PC are dealers in forged chops. I like #3 I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 17, 2012 - 6:23pm | Other than being seen in carry-overs from Human sub-cultures... I think - Humma, Ifshnit, Vrusk, and Yazirian are of the Core and Extended most likely to have similar appearances to Personal Chops and Wax Seals within many of their own sub-ethnic variations... Dralasite, Osakar, Mechnon, and Sathar are all least likely to have such uses in any significant cultural grouping. The remaining races may-or-may-not have them at any significant carry-over, in the same level of continuity as Humans, or could even have something categorically similar that is even more unusual. Several SFman races are also likely candidates... but I will stop with the Core and Extended. note: wax Seals and Chops, as they are used in functions of identification by noble or noteworthy identities, are found in Europe, India, Africa, Asia, and South America. It is not an uncommon practice... and A Seal is the Pressed Wax Fastening itself not the Wax/Ink Sigil Stamp/Chop/Press. The block/ring/token is a carved or molded identification sigil dipped in ink and stamped and/or pressed in wax to mark a seal... the two forms being seperated were used in both ways across all locations used... They were no more or less "personal" in their use than can be expected as use to "identify an identity" worth identifying, and with that identity the Guild/House/Family/Clan/Organization and all Holdings to come-with under that identity. Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
February 17, 2012 - 7:01pm | I am with DNA... it may be /possible/ to take the "retinal pattern" of a Dralasite or Vrusk... but I am not sticking my eyeball in the Digital Optic Nervecluster Thermo/Fractal Undulation Sequence Socket Verifier of a Dralasite... and as a Starlaw agent I am NOT going to carry around sixteen briefcases full of criminal identification gear every time some bug ends up with a dead monkey in their corporate trash-can... just so I can try and figure out which xeno-form was the culprit this time. Slim-down the need for such outlandish cross-species gear by using single (and still fallible) methods like DNA. Verisimilitude vs. Artifice aside... at some point asking me to bend-over is just asking me to bend-over... and it just doesn't hold my interest when a GM plays the Star-law agent asking me to comply with checking something that doesn't make sense even existing on my alien-character's alien physical form... or when I see a chair that somehow miraculously conforms to the highly-specific comforts of four-completely different body-plan layouts, only two of which are themselves even remotely similar. ...I am not sitting on a Vrusk toilet to prove to Kaken-kar Corporate Vice Provisions that I am "queen-jelly" free... I don't care how good the GMVPI benefits are to Human Executive Contracts at the moment, or how badly they need to meet their Humanitarian Inititive Partnership Employment Quota... put in a Human Executive toilet on the dang ship or find yourself some other masochistic captain! Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
