 June 15, 2011 - 12:52pm | Single-sex: Agamogenesis, Hermaphroditic Autogamy, and other forms of Homothallic reproduction, to name a couple. Many of these might be non-gametic or sologameteic, but I'll keep them lumped into one category for brevity. Digameteic: The many heterothallic varients of - Polymorphism, and a few varients of Hermaphroditic homogamy and dichogamy Some may be homothallic, but require a two gamete process. Even if it is same gendered gamete, this is really where Sexual Dimorphism starts to become a factor, creating recognizable 'gender physiques', while below this such cosmetics would be possible, dimorphisim would be as superfluous as sex itself. Trimorphic - Digametism: Male - Female - Incubator Adding a new 'gender physique' doesn't require a new gamete, while adding a new gamete may be more tricky. Quadrimorphic - Digametism: Male -> Syngamier-> Incubator Female -> Again, simply adding a new 'gender physique' doesn't require a new gamete. Quintemorphic - Quadrigametism: Male A -> <- Female B Syngamier Female A -> | <- Male B V (Brooding Pool) Multiple gamete and multiple 'gender physique' variants, while adding automatic 'population rebalance' methods solves many weak link issues. Sextegameteic - Dimorphisim: Hermaphrodea A -|- Hermaphrodeo B Hermaphrodea C -|- Hermaphrodeo D Hermaphrodea E -|- Hermaphrodeo F V (Spawning Pool) Including multiple 'gender physique' and gamete doesn't necessitate complications, and can be eloquently simple. While methods to ensure automatic repopulating of depleted gamete providers is also possible, especially in advanced cultures. Septemorphic - Sextegametism: Male-i Hermaphrodea A-i | Hermaphrodea B-i \ | / Incubator / | \ Hermaphrodeo A-ii | Hermaphrodeo B-ii Female-ii Systems that appear complex in form, can be quite simple when inclusions of cultural structure are understood. Sapience, and the culture that is born of it, can reinforce safe-guards and adapt to reduce potential risks also. And this only scratches the surface... why is there no awesome atomic-rocket powered website for this subject, or even so much as a serious wikipedia entry? Anyway this is for general discussion of non-earth reproductive strategies of possibility, some note of 'how-likely' is of course welcome. The premise here isn't to discuss how likely, but to discuss mere viability of, and arrangements in, the biologically possible. I would say it's unlikely to be too far off of the 'earth-norms' which are already quite varied. I would think most species would use either a form of self-cloning, hermaphroditic stratagem, agamogenesis, or binary sexual reproduction. Using more than 2 gametes... or whatever form of information supply... I would say it's possible, in all honesty to have more, as humans have a lot more variation in genders on a biological level than we usually assume. But, when it comes to actual procreation it ultimately involves 2 gamete or their variants. I would expect that, if we saw hundreds of planets with life on them, that single and dual gender reproduction would account for the vast, vast majority of styles. Arrangements requiring more than 2 genders would probably be very low, and arrangements of Self-cloning, Agamogenesis, and outright Longevity Regeneration, would be higher than bisexual dimorphism (as has been commonly attributed to humans)... That said it should not be treated as too serious of a biological science discussion, but only to maintain a grounding in science for the sake of the fiction... the rule with "1 percent of approaching infinity" states; that if its possible, that's all that counts to be likely... nor am I looking for lots of hand-wavium to explain away impossibles... but I'm respectful of any ideas that have been used or seen, by anyone willing to drop a little inhibition and contribute to discussions of strange sexual tendencies in fictional alien species... I have been trolling the nets for weeks now, looking for sex with aliens... so far I have had little luck... *sigh* So, I have opened topic to a broader category than discussed in the specific alien reproduction threads, [imho] dealing with often overly reduced and 'humanized' variants of their listed reproduction, just to see what comes up as different and alien among the mass minds of these forums. Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 December 20, 2011 - 7:27am | Need help classifying this reproduction strategy: symbiotic relationship between two race. Race A is heterosexual egg layers and have evolved a symbiotic relationship with race B that incubates the eggs. Race B is of animal Intel and is kept and protected by race A. Thus race A has sexual equality. Race B requires proteins it relieves from incubating the eggs for race A in order to reproduce- haven't settled on how race B reproduces but thought it might be parthenogenic (like the osakar). Race B is highly susceptible to environmental influences and has suffered epidemics that have decimated it making it rare and highly valued. It does not do well in new environments and those off the homeworker must be kept in carefully controlled climates. In response to the challenges faced by race B race A has developed nutrient spawning pools that can be a substitute for race B for off planet mating pairs. Spawning pools have high egg mortality though. So, what words would I use to describe this strategy of reproduction? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 20, 2011 - 10:01am | OK your first question is how did these races evolve into their current state. Before they became technologically advanced how did they reproduce? Both races must have come from an environment with extreme biological diversity and predatory activity to develop this symbiosis. Thinking either a tropical rain forest or corral reef. Now if one race is at animal intelligence EEWWWW. Guy you are bordering on bestiality here. Up them to basic tools use technology at least. OK image a race for which the HIV virus went out of control and almost decimated them. They managed to beat it but all survivors have damaged immune systems and they must take steps to limit their exposure to any and all germs, viruses and bacteria. Part of the cure and their continued existence could be the protein from the other race. Have to think now more later. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
December 20, 2011 - 10:43am | Within the theoretical contexts of this thread, as there is no other source I have for xeno-reproductive classifications - Race A: Genders: Male, Female, Herm (Digameteic with low dimorphism? Digameteic Agamogenesis? Physical lack of gender morphism requires an Incubator? Sounded like they have no internal gender identity.) Strategy: Digameteic(?Heterosexual?) Ovuliparitic-Symbiosistic Injection/Artificial Spawning Pools Race B: Genders: Anderm Strategy: Single-sex -> Agamogenesis -> Parthenogenisis or Apomixis. Symbiosisticly incubates Race A's eggs; this Host could be considered a culturally acknowledged 'third gender' (Agamogenesistic/Host Incubator)... internally they are Single-sex Anderms, in symbiosis context they are Host Incubators. I would consider Apomixis over Parthenogenisis in this case, both are forms of the desired Agamogenesis mentioned in the descriptive, but as a technicality Internal Apomixis covers a form more specific to the stated environmental factors, as it allows for a formation of new sporophytes entirely without fertilization considerations... think Tribbles... but then their dependence on some substance of abundance in the local environment (such as a rare combination of protein strains and high mineral availability - I note Larry Niven for playing with such odd environmental quandaries) does not make them suitable candidates for colonizing other worlds (unlike the tribbles, who were stopped only by a poison). My best guess given the descriptions. Further speculations (into the Galactic Geographical Magazine [que intro music~ dun-dun-du-du, dun-dun-dun du-dud-du, da-da-da] xeno-porn articles), would require some physical descriptions, and explorations of environmental habitats. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
December 20, 2011 - 1:36pm | Ratteaveller is very close with his environmental surmisings though I was envisioning a colder clime. Race B I only have vague ideas about but race A has a racial brief now. I hear you on the beastial issue, I just wasn't sure I wanted to put another intelligent race in the mix. Would it still feel like bestiality if the female laid the egg and race B swallowed it to incubate, regurgitating it latter when it hatches? Story on the evolution of race B's reproduction strategy is that after it began incubating overtime it lost the ability to reproduce sexually. Thus I chose parthenogenesis to work in a story of lack of biodiversity leading to chance of genocide for two races when epidemic strikes race B. @ spiritC check apomixis. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 20, 2011 - 6:17pm |  didn't seem like bestiality to me at all (that perspective skipped me and my thoughts completely till it was mentioned  ), because it's alien and seemed a long established cultural norm, I just took at it as normal behavior - au par de course... any which way it develops from there physically, it will just seem more alien and confirm more culturally weird aspects...But... I like weird  Via Agamogenesis there is no need for them to have ever reproduced sexually, however, it is a simpler process to reduce to an intenal apomixis from an external sporing of some sort, where the catalyst is due to an easier energy-storage mechanisim found with the development of a Symbiosistic Reproduction stratagem. This new stratagem allowing the Host Incubator to enter into a fully self contained Apomixis stage in it's evolution. I would consider this to all be provided in some sort of marsupial-like incubation chamber... where a litter of B-type xenos and a single A-type xeno are all 'birthed' at approximately the same time, discarding the incubated 'waste organisim' that likewise manages to gain sustenance from some 'waste element' in the apomixis process. (This all sounds much nicer than regurgitation... however, I would likewise be less queasy with a black-armored oversized flightless sentient-wasp implanting it's kids in live hosts, than the regurgitation OR bestiality in humans... but, aliens can develop whatever culture they find appropriate, I have no stake in it as long as it isn't my body being thought of as the suitable host!.  )Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
December 20, 2011 - 11:16pm | If you wish to keep Race B at animal intelligence and without any sexual elements then what you have is basically a guard dog race. Dogs have been domesticated and used by humans for centuries simply because they have abilities humans lack and humans provide for the dogs needs. This would work for your races as one would lay the eggs and the other would get the protien they need by either consuming the left over egg shells or licking a secretion from the eggs as they incubate. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 December 21, 2011 - 6:22am | I’ve not paid too much attention to this thread, giving it a brief read occasionally. (Either I am too Victorian for the title or I have an aversion to so many multisyllabic morphemes.) However, the last few postings remind me of a particular type of tree (I don’t recall which at the moment)that requires a specific type of wasp to pollinate it before it will fruit. When imported to America, the tree became fruitless. Similarly, there is a little known fruit tree native to the eastern US called the Paw Paw tree. It produces an ugly looking fruit that is quite tasty (somewhat like banana). However, this tree does not always produce every season. It turns out that the flowers do not attract bee’s or other traditional pollinators. Instead, they imitate the fragrance of decaying flesh (yum!)and rely on carrion bugs for pollination. This results in many trees each season not being pollinated. People who cultivate these trees (there is a lot of research into them as a natural insecticide btw, which begs the question about why this tree evolved differently than plants using normal pollinators)jump start pollination by placing decaying animals among their orchards to attract the required carrion bugs. By the way, maybe a little useless trivia or perhaps situationaly inspiring, the Hickory tree will not grow Europe. Perhaps there is some unforeseen insect, bacteria or other organism required for it to exist. I apologize if this is repetitious; I’ve only skimmed and scanned the thread. But if you use species B to carry and implant the sperm between male and female members of species A, you do indeed have cultural bestiality. That would lead to some unique racial biases against species A throughout the universe. Maybe that’s why you don’t see tree nymph’s today, they were shamed off the scene. |
December 21, 2011 - 7:07am | @Inigo: there is a tree on the island where the dodo bird lived that has been mysteriously becoming extinct as its seeds never germinate. What is believed is that the dodo bird ate the seed and that process of passing through its gut broke the tough outer shell and of course when it was "deposited" it was deposited with fertilizer. Since the 90s botanist have had to assist the tree with cracking of the seeds to save it from extinction. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 21, 2011 - 9:13am | @Inigo Montoya The calimyrna fig and its pollinator wasp... there are flora-fauna symbiotic relationships... but this one is common. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
plants are into bestiality, why would it be surprising some aliens would be also?)