 May 6, 2011 - 12:37am |
* Large amounts capable of filling a single CU are rare, and will drive the prices down quickly. A Cargo Unit is 1CuM, 1 cubic meter = 1000 liters = 1000 kilograms. A material's specific weight times 1,000 = Kg/Cubic Meter of that material. Bulk Cargo Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 May 6, 2011 - 8:11am | Thanks TSC. That'll help me with my campaign here. The PCs are still using the Gullwind for the cargo hauling business (with the occassional exploration mission thrown in there once in awhile).  My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
May 31, 2012 - 12:55am |  Nice to hear it helps, let me know how it works!  I have often had interest in the mercantile possibilities, but frequently found the support lacking, or inadequate, in most games... I think it is the simulationist in me that has been let down  .any feedback on the playtesting use, could definitely support improvements on the framework. lifting the veil a bit, and showing the design philosophy here... The pricing scheme is taken from high and low market values over the last few centuries, and adjusted to credits with a simple eyeballed formula that has worked well enough to compare to canon prices. The general resource types were taken from the Star System Generator, where the assumption is that the resources listed are intended to be raw-form bulk, lots of unrefined dirt and rock with valuable-stuff in it, and not processed bars of gold or sifted coal diamonds. As such the eight listed categories in that chart are divided like this: Metal Ore (Low) Metal Ore (low grade); including Precious Metal(s) in mined raw bulk Metal Ore (High) Metal ore (high grade); including Precious Metal(s) in mined raw bulk Radioactive Ore (Low) Radioactive Ore (Low Grade) Radioactive Ore (High) Radioactive Ore (High Grade) Raw Minerals/Silicates (Low) Silicates (no mineral value, which is kind of subjective, so just say Low Grade) Minerals (high grade? lets call these lumps of rock with pretty gems and useful dirt in them, Low Grade.) Raw Minerals/Silicates (High) Silicates (with mineral value? but for what purpose is rich dirt anyway?, so just say High Grade) Raw crystals or Minerals (high grade? that is to say, easily sifted uncut gems.... High Grade) This meant a little adjusting to that chart for the purpose of Weight, Volume, and Price, but keeps the easy ability to abstract everything for a high-heroic Space Marines & Pirate Patrols campaign, or crank up the realism dial for simulationist Merchant Fleets & Trade Routes campaign, while building off the same multi-compatible framework. Or such is my intent, playtesting will be the judge. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 May 6, 2011 - 7:16pm | Awesome Sauce TSC. The credit numbers are more setting material than fit for the document, its setting-unspecific. I'll pawn them though. :-) Also remember a ship fitted for hauling gas could carry a number of CU of main gasses on a jovian, (pg 5). I so much appreciate the effort! Part of the setting I'm working on will allow a group of PC's to start a business such as shipping, trading, mining, etc. I'm working up a document on that, perhaps it would make a good article for the webzine. |
May 6, 2011 - 7:35pm | liquids and gasses are on the link, yes, and I intend to include food-stuffs, luxury goods, and other abstract catagories, sub-catagories, and specifics, in a larger list. Yes, I kinda figured it would need to evolve into it's own Frontier Trader sourcebook, but the prices are generic enough to be usable with little adjustment.. for a generic price system could be implemented based on the same concept. (similar to the Resource Stat based abstractions, like whats used in Shadowrun and D20 modern.) For this, I have been looking specifically at what I consider a semi-generic credit based system, used in star-frontiers... In my own games, planetary governments issue planetary currency, but the credits are still the common measure between spacers, trans-stellar mega-corps, and interplanetary economic exchanges. Just need to know how useful this is in it's basic form, what other aspects might need to tag along to bring it up to par, and specific examples of how it was used, and how well it works, in as much as it is the framework thus far. I'll look at adding some liquids and gasses, food stuffs and textiles, next. See if I can bump up to a more diverse base for trade.... BTW: This isn't to challenge the generic resource chart in the Star System Generator, as it is, but rather to extend it's usefulness, and further define it's meaning, in that regard. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 May 7, 2011 - 5:58am | The thing that's bothered me for shipping in SF is are the cargo in their own cubic meter sized containers or not? This can be important when you consider no one is going to want food from a transport that earlier was hauling radioactive material, or hauling them both at the same time. So let's assume (which is dangerous) any radioactive materials would be moved in a shielded container, that really should be less cargo space for it in the hold. Either the radioactive materials containers would be the same size as everything else which means you are carrying less of it, or the containers are larger in order to carry the same cubic meters of material as the rest of your cargo. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
May 7, 2011 - 10:29am | Can't you just explain that in story? For instance, the party takes on a job delivering low grade raw ore from Point Place to Bethany Station. The ore is loaded in several 5 CU cargo-containers. While in transit someone notices sensor readings indicate trace amounts of radioactive isotopes (or when a party member walks near a container, his toxyrad gauge goes off). Looks like they won't be using those containers to haul foodstuff from Bethany Station to White Light any time soon. |
May 13, 2011 - 7:48pm | yeah, I can see that issue... I think the standard is to put hazmat in specialized hazmat containers, most of the time, (or at least officially). Though those old classic barrels everyone is used to seeing, is hardly fitting of being called a specialized container... Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
May 7, 2011 - 8:56pm | Finally found some decent weights for the 'pure' processed materials, amazing how hard it is to find basic information, stated in simple terms, for radioactive materials...  Also lacking such simple data as the specific gravity and atomic weight of livestock... guess there hasn't been too many researchers willing to see how fast a live cow sinks...  going to have to use a different gauge.Take notice how much the pure forms change weight and price from equal volumes of the raw form... double-up Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
May 7, 2011 - 9:47pm | Ahh, transporting livestock. I remember that episode of Firefly when they had a freight deck chock full of bovine! Moo!  My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
 May 8, 2011 - 10:21am | In a previous career I did hazmat shipping documents. Let's just say the rules are very tight for shipping potentially dangerous materials. How would this different for space travel. Personnally I think that could take whole books to work out. The short is local government and the enforcement of interstellar law divided by the needs of the planet would determine what could be shipped. Example 1 a planet with strict environmental laws may not allow the import or export of radioactive material as the risk of crashes and violent explosions would be unexceptable. BUT if their was a great need to transport a fuel source despite the risk of massive enviromental damage while crossing the gulfs of space then risk be damned crank up the drills and go go go. Example 2 Some things are just too dangerous to transport together. You can not ship food and oil products together. Sodium cannot be shipped with water or where there is a high risk of it getting wet. Ammonia and Chlorine cannot be shipped together. There are certain types of explosives which cannot be shipped with other explosives or even with others of the same type. SO interstellar shipping would of course disallow shipping many items together if there is a risk of cross contamination. Example 3 Many shipping containers are special built for their cargo. Tanker trucks, refrigeration trucks, soft side moving vans, livestock transports so on and so on. Space vehicles will have either be a vast hold which would be a general storage type OR a module system in which storage containers are not accessed by the crew but just added and subtracted (think Space Truckers) shipping would depend on which type of ship your players have. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
May 13, 2011 - 7:49pm | Thank you rattraveller, decently condensed and concise examples. I agree, I don't think shipping and safety precautions will differ much. The rules and regulations will stay pretty much the same in intent, if not in letter. Though with the larger area for inspections to cover, lapses in judgment and self preservation instincts, may cause stupidity to rise. I see it being more difficult to get away with short-cuts in well established ports, but much of the free-trader's preferred routes will take them away from established ports. The examples w00t and Sargonarhes gave, suggested to me, that the Raw Ore was improperly checked, or simply assumed safe, and the danger went unnoticed until in the enclosed space of a cargohold.... this could have been an intentional oversight, or an honest mistake. For the most part I would think that a ship and crew would need to be specially licenced to legally carry hazmat, with the light penalty of unknown neglagence being steep fines, quarantine, and impounding, most captains wouldn't risk it intentionally... and the severe penalty is worse if it is proven to have been intentional negligence and reckless endangerment, but then there are lawyers and amoral corporations avaliable to defend the stupid. Sometimes potential profit causes a devolution from sapience, however... and the risk pays off. sometimes the devolution places a new entry into the Darwin Awards. I think large open cargoholds could be subdivided with retrofitting, or the hull opened to vac and given secure clamps for holding larger Transport Cans... I see most ships having a fairly modular design to begin with, and a stock cargohold just being a large empty space. hmm, then there is the problem that what one planet considers hazmat, another might not.... rare but can happen, especially with the different biological species being involved. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
May 12, 2011 - 5:00pm | Well ok then, standard sized individual cargo container for most cargo. Although I can't see a planet shipping off 100 tons of ore in 10 cargo crates at 10 tons each, though for delivery from planet to station or ship that might be done out of necessity for the shuttle. Easier to move boxes than get a loader or backhoe to move it around manually. Big market for companies making those cargo containers but no adventure ideas, unless you want to chase around mislabeled boxes filled with the wrong items. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
May 31, 2012 - 12:53am | No, it is likely that smaller cargoes will be the dregs, purchased in surplus at port markets, or special delivery runs for specific houses. The big hauls will likely be monopolized by TT and Affiliates, and probably be shipped in specialized transports, with ore in dump-cargo holds, or massive transport containers. But there is still enough room for the little guys, it is just that the little guys are the ones constantly scrambling for non-standard jump-routes also. Cutting a path from Prenglar to White Light, with a pass through a barely surveyed 'dark-system' (2 jumps), and then taking a different route back with a new load, passing an outer-cloud station near Madderly's star (another 2 jumps) for example... the round trip beats the TT Main Route (by perhaps half the time), but isn't Insured because the risk is unpredictable, because the route not well scouted, and doesn't have a TT Sanction Aproval on it (so it actually requires a few navigation rolls)... All this is pretty much the same as modern logistics, but in a different environment. Also there are lots of locations TT just doesn't cover, sure they get 'close', maybe even pass through the same system, but it isn't cost effective enough to make it a main port. As far as playing a TT Ship-hand, yeah, probably pretty boring to be a company man, but it could be done, just have to have a different mindset at the table, more military-regimental and less mercenary-solo. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
Does that help?