 November 14, 2009 - 7:02am | I know we've all heard the arguements about Chariots of the Gods (At this point I'd lean more toward Chariots of the Gullable). I tend to ask the question why. Why is that so? Its a powerful question and one that irritates the true believer. You should believe because we say you should believe! But I have a currious mind and I like this little question. Why? I've found indepent and objective investigation a powerful tool despite how some people get their panties in a twist over having their pet theory or belief questioned. So it was an idle Star Frontiers day on the web without much in the way of fresh game post or forum content and I took a Sunday Drive down the information super highway just to enjoy the view. next thing i know I'm on Google Earth looking for the Nazca Line. The quote unquote super massive prehistoric pictoglyphs carved into a South american plateau that are "so huge that no human could have laid out art like that" ie alien in origin and they must have been created by man to communicate with aliens looking down from space. If I sound sarcastic its because I've listened to or read a number of arguements that ascerted that they are evidence of prehistoric humans communication with the aliens that visited them. Funny thing you cant see them from space and have to zoom way in to see them. Even then they're tough to make out- sure there's been damage done by modern man but in light of what i saw on Google earth I'm quite skeptical about the alien angle. Its far more likely that the lines were a religious/ceremonial endeavor designed to communicate with the gods not with aliens. NOTE: I still find them a great bit of inspiration for writing SF adventures and the idea that there could be an alien angle is a fun idea, I'm just not buying it.  I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 14, 2009 - 3:26pm | Has it ever occurred to anyone that the Nazca lines, or so-called Nazca lines, might have just been a South American Stonehenge? Possibly an ancient observatory(as Stonehenge has been theorized to have been), since ancient religions and ancient astronomy are so closely interwound. Or, if you really want to go far out, and it certainly fires the imagination, maybe those ancient Americans were the aliens going out to explore other worlds...the scant "evidence" offered by von Danniken and his ilk can just as easily be offered for that hypothesis as well as the alien astronaut "theories" they advocate. In all seriousness, such fantasies serve the same purpose as more conventionally organized religion, for those who don't believe in God, but want to cling to the notion that we are somehow special and chosen and all that(otherwise, why would a considerably more powerful race bother communicating with a bunch of aborigines to begin with). The most ridiculous of von Danniken's so-called evidence, of course, are the monoliths at Easter Island, which he insists required alien intervention, even after Thor Heyerdahl conclusively proved that the natives themselves could've just as easily shifted them to their present locations. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 November 14, 2009 - 6:36pm | The most difficult task in the universe is to change the mind of a believer. (Wow, that's almost deep. I must be paraphrasing somebody)  The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
 November 14, 2009 - 7:54pm | well thinking how most religous practices included certian psychotropic drugs its not hard to see.... Four men sitting around a blazing fire. A very huge peace pipe is slowly making it's way around the fire. It's pungent smoke being deeply inhaled and held by each person. The largest of the four starts to cough and laugh. "Dude!" he spits out during the coughing fit. " Huh?" response one of the others, "Dude! I just got a brilliant idea! Lets get all the slaves to start building these doodles my kid made, but instead of small bugs lets make'em freaking HUGE!!" the big guy states. "Dude, your baked..." one starts, when the shamen of the group leaps up.. " Yeah we could like totally tell them its for like talking to the gods and junk but we'll like totally know how much a joke it is it!!" "Not just that man, just think how much we'll be messing with the minds of those dudes who will like find them many many mooons from now, they'll totally think like the green guys from mars helped us and stuff!" A tiny cough and a the little green guy sitting next to the fourth man says, " Hey you leave me out of this, I was okay smoking the fatty but I can't mess in your local affairs, it'll totally get me busted!"..... This is your history... This is your history on drugs.... Primatives don't let primatives build when stoned...  Gold is for the mistress-silver for the maid-copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.But Iron-Cold Iron- is master of them all |
 November 14, 2009 - 8:14pm | Those images only require the use of math and some manpower (most usually motivated by pain or the threat of pain). My biggest gripe is that modern society usually views ancient societies as being stupid and "less evolved". I wonder if anything from our modern civilization will be around in 4,000 years or more for future civilizations to ponder over our foolish and primitive motivations. Based on the quality of goods produced here in America, let alone from China...I doubt it. |
November 14, 2009 - 8:39pm | Those images only require the use of math and some manpower (most usually motivated by pain or the threat of pain). My biggest gripe is that modern society usually views ancient societies as being stupid and "less evolved". I wonder if anything from our modern civilization will be around in 4,000 years or more for future civilizations to ponder over our foolish and primitive motivations. Based on the quality of goods produced here in America, let alone from China...I doubt it. Landfills full of plastic bags containing fossilized dog poop? broken tuppaware bowls and 2Billion atari ET video game cartiges (sp). I think Mount Rushmore and the still being built Crazy Horse carvings might survive. seriously thou, I read somewhere that it's more plausable ( sp ) that the lines where part of a work project to keep the mass busy and there minds off of important things like food sortages and corruption. Sort of like how almost all news cast start off with NFL/NBA/etc news instead of important taxes laws or cuts to programs. I totally agree that "primitive" man wasn't dumb after all they where able to mine and refine gold which is not that easy, let alone gold plate with primitive batteries. and after finding the glypes inthe one pyrimid that might show a primitive light bulb. And modern man at that much smarter, Edison ( one of the most brilliant inventors they say) was playing with incandescent light bulbs while Tesla ( the mad genius of his time )was making fluorescents. during the same era. Gold is for the mistress-silver for the maid-copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.But Iron-Cold Iron- is master of them all |
November 15, 2009 - 9:48am | well thinking how most religous practices included certian psychotropic drugs its not hard to see.... Four men sitting around a blazing fire. A very huge peace pipe is slowly making it's way around the fire. It's pungent smoke being deeply inhaled and held by each person. The largest of the four starts to cough and laugh. "Dude!" he spits out during the coughing fit. " Huh?" response one of the others, "Dude! I just got a brilliant idea! Lets get all the slaves to start building these doodles my kid made, but instead of small bugs lets make'em freaking HUGE!!" the big guy states. "Dude, your baked..." one starts, when the shamen of the group leaps up.. " Yeah we could like totally tell them its for like talking to the gods and junk but we'll like totally know how much a joke it is it!!" "Not just that man, just think how much we'll be messing with the minds of those dudes who will like find them many many mooons from now, they'll totally think like the green guys from mars helped us and stuff!" A tiny cough and a the little green guy sitting next to the fourth man says, " Hey you leave me out of this, I was okay smoking the fatty but I can't mess in your local affairs, it'll totally get me busted!"..... This is your history... This is your history on drugs.... Primatives don't let primatives build when stoned... LMAOOOOO! "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 November 15, 2009 - 1:06pm | I wonder if anything from our modern civilization will be around in 4,000 years or more for future civilizations to ponder over our foolish and primitive motivations. . This reminded me of a book I looked through as a kid. It would have been in the young adult category at my library and one of my older siblings had checked it out. But anyway... The book was set many years into the future, I cant recall a date, and it revolved around an archaeological dig into an ancient burial site that had many preserved dead. Speculations as to what all the many ceremonial rooms, decorations, and vestments were about. This was written like a Nation Geographic dig with notes and comments by the various archaeologists. The thing that really wrapped it all up was the images of the site, artifacts, skeletal placements because the first image is an overview of the dig site after much of the necropolis had been uncovered: it was a modern day motel. I recall another image of a skeleton in the bathtub and how they thought it was an open sarcophagus; another image with one of the crew wearing "ceremonial vestments of office" found in the same room: a woman with the toilet seat around her neck with the lid held against the back of her head with sanitary seal/strip thing around her forehead and earrings made from the teardrop faucet handles. I would like to find that book again. I am sure it would be a much better read now. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
 November 15, 2009 - 3:34pm | It was Motel of the Mysteries. I seem to recall there was a sequal as well, but I don't remember the totle of it. "Rome didn't build an empire by having meetings. They did it by killing those who stood in their way." |
November 15, 2009 - 6:07pm | It was Motel of the Mysteries. I seem to recall there was a sequal as well, but I don't remember the totle of it. Thanks. Im going to try and find it Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
November 15, 2009 - 8:46pm | @ArtMic. Thanks for that look back! Now when my astrogator screws up and slingshots us around a star and into the past, I'll not have to worry about my poly-vox being broken. I'll just speak stoner! The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
 November 16, 2009 - 8:45am | The biggest hurdle for any time traveler/archaeologist/historian is to drop their egocentricity long enough to realize that the peoples of "way back then" were just as clever and motivated, eager or lazy, lecherous and noble, etc ... as anyone nowadays. Basically all the emotions and motivations we feel and experience were the same for our ancient ancestors. Only the knowledge base has changed. |
November 17, 2009 - 2:21am | The second biggest hurdle: Ancient peoples don't have access to modern history/anthropology books..... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 November 17, 2009 - 8:36am | Well from what I have read about the Nazca lines, historians think that at one time they may have been idols for their gods (hence the different animal shapes). Danikan (who wrote Chariot of the Gods) said that they were meant to be seen by some sort of aircraft, a sort of landmark showing whoever to go there. They are huge and can be seen from space, so the alien idea is not so far off. The resources used to create these lines was probably astronomical. As a student of history, I am not supposed to go for the unconvential ideas of these lines being markers for some extraterrestrials, but it makes sense. People only build something that really has purpose. Whether that is art, buildings, or whatever. As for observatories, maybe they match up patterns of stars. In the Northern Hemisphere we go off of what the Europeans and Near-Eastern societies used as constellations. Maybe these are the constellations the people saw in the Southern Hemisphere???? The possibilities are really endless. Confucious Says: Man with one chopstick go hungry. Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement. |
November 17, 2009 - 11:32am | Gerg -- Actually, it probably did not require nearly as much in terms of resources or manpower as thought (I thought it would have required a great deal of labor, but current research seems to show otherwise) -- |
November 17, 2009 - 3:38pm | First off sam, you have a notion that there is nothing absurd about the words 'University' and ' |
November 17, 2009 - 5:11pm | More plausible than always adding aliens to the mix, Inigo. As I've said, it is most likely that that was an observatory much like Stonehenge was theorized to have been. ArtMic's theory is also good.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
November 17, 2009 - 8:51pm | Well, a hot air balloon is certainly possible. I'm just pointing out that one would not be necessary. However, the lines are in the Nazca Desert - not knowing the specific geography of the region, I would guess that it would be devoid of substantial lumber supplies, such as would be required for regular hot air balloon flights. This would make the hot air balloon theory less probable (though still possible). I must admit I do not know how much balloon you have to make to lift a person or two, nor how much lumber you'd have to burn to heat it enough -- I imagine a significant amount. |
 December 17, 2009 - 4:16pm | Sorry Gergmaster, not much resources are needed, the soil is a little rocky, but scratching the soil isnt that hard. Dry place, the lines seem to be astronomical. and making them not hard, actually using simple math they can be copied anywhere. the same math the "ancients" had. |
December 17, 2009 - 4:22pm | What is interesting, are the images on Google that show what appear to be cities in old lake beds in the area. if not an artifact of image capture new stuff there. being , as a kid, a Danikenite, I followed alot of this stuff. Almost all of his and Sitchin's stuff is, well at best unsubstantiated, sorry. |
December 17, 2009 - 6:04pm | Well, a hot air balloon is certainly possible. I'm just pointing out that one would not be necessary. However, the lines are in the Nazca Desert - not knowing the specific geography of the region, I would guess that it would be devoid of substantial lumber supplies, such as would be required for regular hot air balloon flights. This would make the hot air balloon theory less probable (though still possible). I must admit I do not know how much balloon you have to make to lift a person or two, nor how much lumber you'd have to burn to heat it enough -- I imagine a significant amount. Why use lumber when bat guano is much more plentiful in that part of the world? Actually I have a lot of respect for our ancestors - that is why I often get defensive against the theory of ancient alien visitors. Our ancestors did not need extraterrestial help to learn and develop their socieities and technology. Amen to that. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
December 31, 2009 - 2:52pm | Well, a hot air balloon is certainly possible. I'm just pointing out that one would not be necessary. However, the lines are in the Nazca Desert - not knowing the specific geography of the region, I would guess that it would be devoid of substantial lumber supplies, such as would be required for regular hot air balloon flights. This would make the hot air balloon theory less probable (though still possible). I must admit I do not know how much balloon you have to make to lift a person or two, nor how much lumber you'd have to burn to heat it enough -- I imagine a significant amount. Georgaphy can be a funny thing. We know that an area can be transformed into a dessert in a matter of a few year. Archeological evidence points that the sands of egypt replaced a lush sub-tropical region based on plant fossils found there. (And all this before the evil carbon footprints of the industrial age...or were the ancients even more advanced than we could have imagined? Somebody call Gore.) That is one common failing with historians/scientists. We assume that what we see is how it has always been. Or even in the case of polar ice, the way it is now is believed to be the way that it should always be. Even if you have to ignore evidence to the contrary. My point (as I ramble on) is simply that at the time the lines were created, there very well could have been enough lumber...or poop...to fuel a balloon. We do know that some sort of plant grew there that allowed them to make that cotton (or cotton-like) fabric. Many things will never be known. But it is always fun to postulate. |
