 May 4, 2009 - 8:45am | I was looking at the Saurrians from Drgon 103, more than just a skim this time, and I was struck by the possibilities for this race. When I first skimmed the article I wasn't really in favor of mixing in another race for the sake of just having another race. but upon deeper scrutiny I think these guys are rife with opertunities for adventure. Few problems though - the whole aquatic background giving superior underwater sight and gill slits to breath water mixed with evolution from "land dragons" from 4 different environments and the whole 4 separate distinct saurian races being born within the same family from intermarriage and no half breed types? it just seemed confuse to me. But I liked the back ground and their desire to strike back at the Sathar. There is a lot of possibilites here: I'd drop the whole land dragon evolution thing and keep the aquatic evolution thing going. that combined with the whole fleeing the destruction of their homeworld and not playing a major role in the Frontier opens the oportunity for them to colonize water habitats within the Frontier. It allows the Frontier to accept 500,000 refugees as they's be perfectly happy using the enviroments the core 4 normally pass up: Oceans, seas and lakes. I'd keep the land dragons as the source of the sathar cybo-dragons though, why waste a perfectly good animal and it makes a good tie in to the Volturnus material. the barrier of the ocean/sea/lake surface mutes their impact and interaction some but it opens up all new realms and opertunities for adventure: under sea cities and a whole alien culture to mix explore. In fact the whole escape their system's destruction with the rescued population being put into stasis smacks of the "Space Seed" episode from the original Star Trek and opens up a similar KH/AD adventure with discovering and boarding the saurian craft. Latter the saurians can have raised the "Saurian Legion" to help combat the Sathar. but when the UPF mistakenly sends the legion to perform a police action on during a corporate war rebellion formulates within the ranks. They'd also contribute heavily to a destroy the sathar campaign. or a group of suarians hire the PCs to sneak into and scout their home system or an abandoned colony part of that might also involve recovering something from sathar conquered system. The saurians could also institute a Sea Guard- kind of like the Coast Guard but with a submarine element and part of their pride in contributing to the frontier and not wanting to be beggers and welfare recipients. So players ejecting in an escape pod or crash landing in water would, when they are at the verg of drowning be rescued by a Sea Guard sub and taken to its port, an under water city, which can lead to further adventure or they just take the elevator or a sub to the surface, going about thier business or they need to recover stuff from their wreck, now at the bottom of the sea and they'll have to hire a sub. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 May 4, 2009 - 3:13pm | Or one can do a surface piracy, drug smuggling scenario...this might go well with the type of campaigns Inigo Montoya was talking about. Or the Saurian Legion can be one of the units dropped onto Volturnus to help fight off the Sathar invasion. This would be interesting, as they run slap dab into twisted cybernetic parodies of their former selves in the "person" of the cybodragons. The most intriguing possibility is the "rescue the sleeper ship" scenario. Perhaps some of the Saurians saved from the destruction of their system were genmodded super soldiers tailored to fight and kill the Sathar...and it turns out the scientists who did the genmodding were fanatics who "programmed" the super soldiers to kill anyone not a "pure" Saurian, making these thawed out über Saurians a danger to the PCs, their own people, the Frontier, and, incidentially, the Sathar as well. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 4, 2009 - 9:17pm | the unisol idea has some merit and totally rips off space seed episode that introduced Kahn into Star Trek. since I'm starting with the zeb campaign I'd like to save the sleeper ship scenario when I transition to the SFKH-0 and other KH mods which for my campaign precludes the legion dropping on Zebulon. Though I'm considering including a Zurraqor hive ship in the sathar fleet and having the PCs face a squad of them in the big battle on Zebulon. the gen mod super soldiers would create some danger that the sleeper ship scenario would otherwise lack though the racial description leave lots of room for insult and pride to interfer with a successful 1st contact so the role play of that could be a challenge though more of a role play encounter than anything violent. I'm thinking that the sleeper ship could have the sleep berths in a water filled section of the ship to throw a little wrinkle at the PCs forcing them to pump the water out or don space suits to enter that section. I suppose a unique look or style is called for to represent the saurian sleeper ships. maybe they can be a massive affair, like a small hollowed out planetoid that is on a collision course with an inhabited planet requiring the PCs to board and unravel its mysteries. The propulsion system could be that used in the Star Trek episode Yanada- nukes ejected out a special engine housing and detonated- just to be different. the planetoid is too large for a standard UPF vessel to attempt to tow with grapples. since its a planetoid thats been travelling for centuries damage and dust have obscured that its a ship so that the militia command dispatch the PCs to plant a nuke to blow the planetoid off course. they do (causing some damage to the ship and knocking it off course but within an hour the planetoid ship's nav computer ejects one of its own nukes and re-adjusts it's course for the inhabitted planet. SURPRISE. you weren't expecting that so now the PCs have to investigate and learn that they've inadvertantly caused some problems with the planet ship with their nuke. plus the automatic defenses and the gen mod soldiers and first contact with revived normal saurians it could run 2-3 sessions. In the end I'd leave the saurians as a thread to pick up latter if need be after this. kind of a background noise in the setting with the occassional saurian turning up here and there. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 May 5, 2009 - 8:15am | I applaud your intentions but I can't get past my childhood nightmares... Sleestacks ARE COMING!  |
 May 5, 2009 - 8:39am | The backstory of the Saurians is good, but I never really took a liking to them as a race. Maybe the art, or maybe the mechanics of have 3 races... don't know. A reptilian race is certainly a great idea, but I think I would produce a new race rather than the saurian race as presented. Otherwise, great ideas to expand from the end of the volturnus adventures. <insert witty comment here> |
May 5, 2009 - 10:47am | I certainly agree that a reptillian race would be a good addition and that the saurians could use a tweak or a rewrite. Previous reptillians suffered from bad costumes/make/ special effects: The Gorn Kirk faced off against, Sleestacks well at the time I bought them but now they look a little cheesy, {scratching the brain to think of others but coming up blank though I know that there should be more} I liked the Possleen from the John Ringo novels (Hymn before Battle) though they come off as an implacable advancing horde bent on consuming and destroying everything in their path (kind of Sathar writ as lizards) What sort of reptile would you be interested in, Smoot? Personally I've become infatuated with the idea of an aquatic/amphibious reptile who come to the Frontier as refugees. 1. I dont have to work in their homeplanet to the setting 2. despite totalling .5 million individuals they wont even make a big splash in the population density of the Frontier so the core 4 is reserved in place of primacy and they're just back ground color. 3. With out having to explain too much they can socket into my campaign milleu and be potential story lines or not. 4. Plus they become an excuse to dust of the Dragon articles on aquatic adventures and aquatic craft for SF. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 5, 2009 - 10:56am | Sorry for the double post but I had a new idea: When the PCs are investigating the sleep ship they find and scan a biological sample and the scanner goes off with alarms because the bio sample is very similar to genetic material taken from the Sathar attack beast the cybo-dragon and the scanner is programmed to raise the red flag anytime it comes across known sathar materials or samples. the truth is that since the land dragon and the Saurians are from the same evolutionary tree so there are some very general similarities genetically. but combine the alert to the biologic sample with the planetoid ship resisiting efforts to be blown off course and the PCs could very well be thinking - Sathar again. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 5, 2009 - 4:06pm | the unisol idea has some merit and totally rips off space seed episode that introduced Kahn into Star Trek. Actually, I had the Babylon 5 episode "Infection," in mind, maybe even mixed in with the TNG episode "The Hunted," where the good ship 1701-D runs slap up into a passel of genetic supersoldiers created to fight their peaceful masters' war for them, but they end up being locked away on a prison planet(from which they rebel and escape)because they're considered too dangerous to be let back loose on the streets of the city. (Sorry, listening to the only Huey Lewis and the News song of any substance....) since I'm starting with the zeb campaign I'd like to save the sleeper ship scenario when I transition to the SFKH-0 and other KH mods which for my campaign precludes the legion dropping on Zebulon. Though I'm considering including a Zurraqor hive ship in the sathar fleet and having the PCs face a squad of them in the big battle on Zebulon. the gen mod super soldiers would create some danger that the sleeper ship scenario would otherwise lack though the racial description leave lots of room for insult and pride to interfer with a successful 1st contact so the role play of that could be a challenge though more of a role play encounter than anything violent. I'm thinking that the sleeper ship could have the sleep berths in a water filled section of the ship to throw a little wrinkle at the PCs forcing them to pump the water out or don space suits to enter that section. I suppose a unique look or style is called for to represent the saurian sleeper ships. maybe they can be a massive affair, like a small hollowed out planetoid that is on a collision course with an inhabited planet requiring the PCs to board and unravel its mysteries. The propulsion system could be that used in the Star Trek episode Yanada- nukes ejected out a special engine housing and detonated- just to be different. the planetoid is too large for a standard UPF vessel to attempt to tow with grapples. The asteroid ship was named Yonada. The episode was "For the World Is Hollow, And I Have Touched the Sky." since its a planetoid thats been travelling for centuries damage and dust have obscured that its a ship so that the militia command dispatch the PCs to plant a nuke to blow the planetoid off course. they do (causing some damage to the ship and knocking it off course but within an hour the planetoid ship's nav computer ejects one of its own nukes and re-adjusts it's course for the inhabitted planet. Or, since it's an Orion-drive ship(where a pusher plate spits out nukes for thrust and steering), it simply spits out nukes to take out the PCs' nuke, and then things get interesting, especially if it's a computer doing the driving, and its programming perceives the inbound nuke and the ship which launched it. SURPRISE. you weren't expecting that so now the PCs have to investigate and learn that they've inadvertantly caused some problems with the planet ship with their nuke. plus the automatic defenses and the gen mod soldiers and first contact with revived normal saurians it could run 2-3 sessions. Or, if the PCs are your usual trigger-happy lot, just one.... In the end I'd leave the saurians as a thread to pick up latter if need be after this. kind of a background noise in the setting with the occassional saurian turning up here and there. Very interesting, jedi, excellent work, as usual. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 5, 2009 - 9:08pm | SNIP...the TNG episode "The Hunted," where the good ship 1701-D runs slap up into a passel of genetic supersoldiers created to fight their peaceful masters' war for them, but they end up being locked away on a prison planet(from which they rebel and escape)because they're considered too dangerous to be let back loose on the streets of the city. If this is the episode that I think it is, the Super Soldiers have the ability to teleport from place to place on the planet and use it to conduct raids on their masters. One drawback-each use of the teleport system kills them just a little. Use it too many times and you are dead. This was a great episode.  EDIT: Now that I think about it the episode I was thinking of was from Deep Space Nine (don't know its name). |
May 6, 2009 - 1:10am | The ep you're thinking about is "Captive Pursuit," from DS9, pineapple. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 7, 2009 - 11:13am | Sleestaks!!! ROTFLMAO! But seriously... This race is workable under conditions described by jedi. I would give them a bonus in water, but a penalty on land. Both slight, but enough to encourage waterborne adventures. Something of that nature. The refugee thing is cool. You could cook up pretty much any background that you want... I like the fact that they are few, and serve and background color to the core 4... |
May 7, 2009 - 7:30pm | What sort of reptile would you be interested in, Smoot? I have given this a little bit of thought. Honestly, I think a somewhat crocodilian sort of race would be best... a civilized meat eater (fish mostly), capable waging war (mentality wise), and still holding to your idea to incorporate aquatic elements. Give them a bit of an upright stance, sort of a D&D style Lizardman. I think a good visual would be something from one of the 3e Monster Manuals (but not the first) - just omit the archaic weapons shown and imagine them with a laser rifle and skein suit.  Perhaps give them STR/STA bonus, PER/LDR penalty (not very friendly overall). The swiming stuff would be the non-percentile based ability. I would give them at least double the standard swimming rules (time before STA damage, and holding breath) Not sure what kind of percentile based ability would be appropriate. A bite attack seems like an appropriate addition. The story elements would remain largely intact. Anyhow, it is the direction that I would go. <insert witty comment here> |
May 7, 2009 - 7:37pm | Not bad sm00t... For me it's too much "pets in space". Look at a why to make them alien'ish. (Of course my Toad Men will be coming up in an Issue....  )lol |
May 7, 2009 - 8:19pm | matter of artistic embellishment... since I am artistically challenged, I must rely upon the skills of others or existing pics for examples. I think making things that are compatible with existing races is a requirement for a good race... meaning they must be able to use appropriate weapons and gear, fit in existing vehicles and otherwise mesh with the other races in reasonable ways... anyhow, better art example than the saurian pics in Dragon Mag... those were humans in scale suits, not much better than sleestacks. <insert witty comment here> |
 May 8, 2009 - 5:01am | A bite attack seems like an appropriate addition. I think with the image you provided, a tail smack would be appropriate. Not very damaging, but useful in unbalancing and tripping opponents. Maybe even as a free action to someone behind or flanking. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
May 8, 2009 - 5:50am | A bite attack seems like an appropriate addition. I think with the image you provided, a tail smack would be appropriate. Not very damaging, but useful in unbalancing and tripping opponents. Maybe even as a free action to someone behind or flanking. Also, my comment above was a veiled attempt at getting someone with more artistic skill than myself to re-imagine the concept. The D&D graphic was just a little visual aid to get the idea across. I would like to see a sci-fi redo of it, with some alien-esque embellishments. <insert witty comment here> |
May 8, 2009 - 7:36am | of course another direction one could take this (race) would be towards a more turtle-like direction. Good swimmers, plant eaters, with a calm meticulous demeanor that the other races consider a tad slow when deciding things. Call them Kappalians, and give them an affinity for weaponless combat. Take that odd skinny look of a turtle's neck, and apply it towards the whole body, removing the shell aspect attributing to evolution, or perhaps only vestigial remnants of a shell-like structure appearing as a line of bony plates running down the back. It would require artistic representation. <insert witty comment here> |
May 10, 2009 - 5:29am | My artistic endeavors go toward miniatures I was using the Reaper Chronoscope figure "Sligg Warrior" with its Sci-Fi looking weapon for the base for an eorna but it would work for the saurian. I once had an lizard man army (gamesworkshop-warhammer) and the skinks and the bigger saurians with sci-fi conversions would work plus the hard plastic figures are easier to work with for conversions. I liked the D&D artwork too. EDIT: Does anyone know if the original Dragon article had accompanying artwork? I only have a net based copy of the article sans artwork and I'd be currious to see what the original concept of the saurians was. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 10, 2009 - 9:00am | Skinks?! You into the Starfist series, jedi? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 10, 2009 - 3:41pm | Sweet, never seen the top picture. Where'd that come from? |
May 10, 2009 - 4:25pm | That is the 'cover' of the Ares section of the magazine. <insert witty comment here> |
May 14, 2009 - 6:19am | Skinks?! You into the Starfist series, jedi? No I had a pile of skinks from Games workshop's Warhammer game (lizardman army) before I sold it off to fund buying a huge pile of KHs miniatures! Never heard of starfist, novels? who's the author? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 14, 2009 - 2:57pm | Skinks?! You into the Starfist series, jedi? No I had a pile of skinks from Games workshop's Warhammer game (lizardman army) before I sold it off to fund buying a huge pile of KHs miniatures! Never heard of starfist, novels? who's the author? Yeah, an ex-Marine named David Sherman, and an ex-Army LRRP named Dan Cragg, both Vietnam vets. Most of the series deals with the one unit of Confed Marines unlucky enough to encounter hostile sentient aliens(the Skinks)the 34th Fleet Initial Strike Team(think Marine Expditionary/Amphibious Unit, except with more supporting elements(including a UAV squad), its own organic air wing, and about a regimental combat team in size). The novels are: First To Fight, as Pineapple already mentioned. School Of Fire The Steel Gauntlet Blood Contact Technokill Hangfire The three novels of the Kingdom trilogy: Kingdom's Swords Kingdom's Fury Lazarus Rising prominently featuring MIA Gunnery Sergeant Charlie Bass forced to fight the Skinks and a religious dictator who takes advantage of the situation. Eventually, the people prevail, the evil dictator is killed, the Skinks are driven off, Kingdom is quarrantined, and Charlie returns to the 34th FIST in the novel A World Of Hurt, in which the 34th FIST has to fight both a sentient planet and a nation of space hippies trying to stop an illegal mining operation on said sentient planet. Finally, we have the two-novel Ravenette series: Flashfire Firestorm and the most recent novel, Wings Of Hell, which I haven't read yet(same with the StarFist:Force Recon series). Very good background material, especially the military tech, but the the characters, other than Charlie Bass and the 34th FIST marines, are a little cardboard(especially the space hippie navy guys in A World Of Hurt), and the pacing leaves a lot to be desired...the authors spend so much time building up the scene, that by the time the story gets to us, it feels rushed. Best of the novels would be the Kingdom trilogy, and the worst, so far, is definitely A World Of Hurt. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 15, 2009 - 8:49am | Hey Jedion, Could you do an article about the race for the next Frontiersman? At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
May 15, 2009 - 9:01am | They do sound like a worthy race with some good background material to draw from. <insert witty comment here> |
May 17, 2009 - 3:47am | Hey Jedion, Could you do an article about the race for the next Frontiersman? Now that I've seen the original artwork on the saurians I'm wondering if I shouldn't take a second look at the 4 races thing- I still find the whole 'you can have all 4 races turn up in the same family' in the original material to be a little silly but I'm not really opposed to multiple races within the same species (look at humans) though intermarriage should produce a mixing or a half breed. Maybe the thing to do with that is to take a page from ICE's HARP rules with a mix breed of 2 fantasy races having lesser or greater blood from one parent and deriving some of the racial benefits of the parent race. basically it works like this: your character is human but has greater elven blood or has lesser dwarven blood and some while you basically conform to human standards you'll have a greater or lesser physical qualities of the other race plus some of its abilities but slightly diminished. it adds a slight complication and brings sanity to the situation and allows for more choices for PCs if allowed as a PC race in a campaign. EDIT:I actually just finished a write up on the sathar and submitted it so anthing with the saurians would most likely wait till the following edition. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 17, 2009 - 9:34am | Now that I've seen the original artwork on the saurians I'm wondering if I shouldn't take a second look at the 4 races thing- I still find the whole 'you can have all 4 races turn up in the same family' in the original material to be a little silly but I'm not really opposed to multiple races within the same species (look at humans) though intermarriage should produce a mixing or a half breed. That's in the Star Frontiers: Deliverance edition. [play "Duelling Banjos" here] "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 18, 2009 - 6:04am | The odds of two unrelated species having compatible DNA (same chroosomal totals, similar fertization chemistry) is WAY out there... half breeds from species as diverse as the SFAD & SFZG races is pure fantasy. |
May 18, 2009 - 6:25am | I was thinking of humans that are compatible among our varied races or of K9s who are egually compatible among their varied breeds- the suarians could have 4 races within the same species which maintains the original content of the dragon article- I only sited the fantasy example from the HARP rules as I thought the ideas in HARP were a good way of handling something like that. Though, to be sure, gnomes, dwarves, elves, humans and orcs having relations and producing half breeds is pure fantasy but then fantasy doesn't really require suspension of dis-belief to enjoy it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
