 January 17, 2009 - 6:58am | Here's the thing, from what I've seen, Zebulon's guide gets trashed and bashed quite often in forums and yahoo groups dedicated to this game. If there are defenders of Zebs they dont seem to speak up much, from what I've seen. I'm glad Zebs came out personally and no I'm not trying to champion it. but for the most part the majority of zebs is the new skills and equipment and that was great stuff. The resolution system which everyone hates, was just a "bright idea" that some one at TSR came up with and was also instituted in a Gamma World edition then dropped. Honestly I think that what they were trying to do with that: having a great roll to hit mean high damage was admirable just flawed in its implimentation (Remember it came out at that time in TSR history when Lorraine Williams was in control and had forebad play testing because she wasn't paying people to play games). I never used it. The extra stuff on mega corps and cadres in Zebs was just setting fluff- pretty much take it or leave as per individual tastes- I liked it as it was one less thing I had to develope. The time line; well I've never been happy with that but from the number of other fan timelines I've seen on the net I guess most people had the same reaction. The new races- yuck I only liked the humma at the time dwarves in space (ifshnits) just didn't grab me though after 20 years and warhammer 40k and all the cool dwarves with space kit miniatures out there I'm much more amenable to them (maybe with a better background) if for no other reason than to use some of the really nice space dwarves made by hasselfreeminiatures. as for the race with 4 legs and 2 arms that just didn't make sense to me and that one I could just leave, in fact I cant even remember the name. Yeah it was half finished revision and suffered from no play testing (Like all other TSR products of the time). but I was certainly glad to have it. most of it was usable even if it lacked space ship skills and all references to the new resolution system were easy to translate to the old system. The things I didn't like in it I just didn't use but enough of it was usable that I found it indespensible. Maybe you all see it differently? Jedion I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 24, 2009 - 1:57pm | The Zeb's Guide... what a love/hate relationship! I both agree and disagree with what has already been said above. I love the expanded skills, the expanded setting, adding more races, more equipment, etc. Expansion is good. I hated the new resolution system, the specific races, many of the new star system/planetary names, the advance of the timeline that contradicted previous play, the unfinished nature of the book, etc. The only race I truly liked was the osakar, because they were so very alien (although I did like the idea behind the ifshnit; the vrusk are corporate merchants, the ifshnits are the vagabond traders). I liked the "classes"; enforcer, explorer, techex, scispec - now I could put a name to what my PC was. I liked the mentalist profession; psionics have a place in my sci-fi. The megacorps, cadres and cults were a great bit of fluff to help flesh out the setting, even if some of the names were lackluster. The art was pretty bad and a real let-down from the awesome Parkinson cover, but this was TSR after all... Now all that said, at the time of its release, I used the ZG extensively. I had to make alterations, but I always do with any game I play. Until I make my own game system, I won't be satisfied. :) Eventually, however, SF got put on a shelf and half-forgotten. I've tinkered around with a hodgepodge SF/Traveller/Star Wars game ever since, but nothing ever came from it. When d20 Modern came around, I started working on some conversions, and sped that up once d20 Future arrived. I still refer back to ZG more than SF for material on my d20 SF game, though a lot of the rules from ZG are irrelevent. Zeb's Guide gets a lot of grief for all of the reasons that have already been listed; poorly written/edited, incomplete, untested, stupid, useless material, revisions that make home games irrelevent, and bad art. I think, however that the real charm of the book lies in the fluff material, oft overlooked by players just looking for a way to buff their PCs. I think the ZG is a GM's goldmine. @ Imperial Lord: "Mechanons and Mechanon Revolt: Absolutely retarded. This has been explored in greater detail elsewhere, but the idea that the Eorna would not stop, or at least warn Star Law/UPF about a Mechanon threat is just absurd. Plus, part of StarSpawn is convincing the Mechanons (through a very tough role play, I might add) that bio lifeforms are worthy of respect and alliance. Don't these bots have any gratitude for the efforts made to save Volturnus from the Sathar hordes? No doubt that the Sathar would have blasted them into components if they conquered the planet. Wouldn't the Eorna (who created them, after all) have any capability to control the Mechanons - at least to the point where they would not be a threat?" While I did not like ZG's treatment of the mechanons, this brought something to mind: Battlestar Galactica's Cylons (the original series). According to the story, the Cylons used to be a reptilian race who created robot servants/warriors. These intelligent robots rebelled, and destroyed their creators, thereafter coming into conflict with the humans. See any parallels? Long live the Frontier! |
 February 27, 2009 - 5:37pm | Plenty, Gargoyle. I was thinking, though, if the Eorna could've controlled the Mechs, why send the PCs to the abandoned defense complex in the first place? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 February 27, 2009 - 6:47pm | I was thinking, though, if the Eorna could've controlled the Mechs, why send the PCs to the abandoned defense complex in the first place? The Starspawn module states that the Mechanons evolved from androids/robots that survived the original Sathar attack. That little bit of information led me to believe that they were not able to be controlled. Not to mention that the Eorna would not want to control/enslave a sentient race. When Zebs came along, I liked the idea of the Mechanon Revolt. I had even come up with a way to have the pc's that went through the Volturnos modules to be involved. I saw alot of potential with the Revolt, with only a few ideas moving up to a full-blown AI-War. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
 February 28, 2009 - 8:05pm | Will - I was saying that the Eorna could do it after the 50,000 eggs hatch at the end of StarSpawn. Never liked what they did with the Mechanons. Plus, by the time my parties went through three modules of Volturnus, they were happy to move on to greener pastures - with tons of XP and loot, of course. |
 March 1, 2009 - 5:13am | Yeah, that 250,000Cr worth of Vibrillium and Tomarilium went pretty far. Gotta wonder why those two minerals were never mentioned again. As unique as they were we shoulda gotten far more than a quarter mil... |
March 1, 2009 - 1:46pm | Prolly cos no one could figure out what those minerals were supposed to have been used for...hmm, virbrillum, prized the Frontier over for making such excellent vibrators.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
March 2, 2009 - 6:01am | Well, Zeb's Guide brought us "federanium"...and at least offered a half baked description of what it was. I imagine tomarilium was named after the same guy that the native Tomar's Horses were named after. Whoever Mr. Tomar happens to be that is... |
March 2, 2009 - 9:46am | I imagine tomarilium was named after the same guy that the native Tomar's Horses were named after. Whoever Mr. Tomar happens to be that is... Maybe tomarilium is a joke played on the pirates by the locals. Its just a "byproduct" from the Tomar's Horses. However the pirates managed to turn a profit with it by selling it throughout W'l-Marts as a organic fertilizer. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
March 2, 2009 - 4:04pm | Damn, Rummie, you almost made me choke on my glass of water.... Unfortunately, the joke's on the locals, as they're still forced to "mine" it.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
March 3, 2009 - 5:50am | Makes a vivid recreation from that scene in Young Guns... "Hey old timer, what kind of operation ya got goin' on here? Gold town? Silver town?" "Naaaaahhhh. Bat guano." "Guano?!? Well, that'll be a first for me. Ain't never been to a $#!T town before, can't wait to see how the women are!" |
 May 15, 2011 - 5:00pm | I have a problem with step die (from Alternity) but fortunately they gave an alternative and it can be ignored, at least until you get a chance to understand it, which I do, more than I did, when I first opened the book. I feel the same for the odd resolution system in Zeb's. I have mentioned I don't have a need to toss out the timeline. All without actually killing or maiming the timeline as printed, I can explain most of the discrepancies, and have met enough others who can explain the parts I cannot figure out, or did not notice. Unfortunately I can only answer how I explain what I know to be questionable, or respond with a solution when I see a problem based on misconception or oversight. I cannot [atm] point anyone to those parts that were explained by others. Some of the technology I feel is under-priced, but that is an easy fix. Some items I would consider damaging to the setting, but again since most of these don't show up as being integral to the setting anywhere else, I can call them advanced theoretical and risky applications of xeno-archaeological reconstructs... these things don't feel 'star trekish' to me, more 'Lexxian' or 'Blake's 7ionic' I have not had problem with mentalism outright, but I don't flood the setting with it's influence, keeping it hokey, uncertain, and questionably trustworthy. I do use it for an explanation of the Sathar's Hypnotism, and a few limited sources like that. I don't make it a common trait in the core-four, with only enough room for one or two secret or esoteric organizations. I do play up the paradigm shock, and reality consensus issues, that lead to prejudice and superstition by most sapients (Mechanon are not included in that effect, but can't use it, and are considered 'dead-minds' or 'empty-vesals' to the sensitive minds, Sathar are not noticeably effected either, as it is inherent to their reality consensus). It doesn't feel 'Star Warsy' to me, more like B5ish or 'Buck Rodgeresque', with the occasional 'Flash Gordonisim'. Overall I feel more at home with calling out Star Frontiers, as emulating very nicely; 'Conquest of Space', 'Robinson Crusoe on Mars', 'Rocky Jones: Space Ranger', 'Thunderhawks', 'Flash Gordon', 'The Martian Chronicles', 'Ark II', 'Solarnauts', 'Captain Z-ro', 'Space Patrol', 'Amazing Stories' esp. the Space Edisondes and Xeno-fiction, and just about any other Space Opera/Planetary Romance/Rocketpunk with the 'Punk attitude even, you can find like those before 1960, with inclusions from 60's and 70's being case-by-case, and near about nata for anything after that. I don't necessarily like, or use, every part of all those examples, nor do I consider them exclusively canonesqe, but that's what the 'feel' of Star Frontiers and all supplements, articles, and extra features, is for me, as printed, with all it's mistakes, misprints, goofy inclusions, over-sighted exclusions, omitted intentions, and general errors. A Type-1 Balkanized Interstellar Society, surrounded by a handful of Type-II Ancients with unknown and sometimes unfathomable motives that are rarely cooperative, and typically near-supernatural, all playing in an interstellar-graveyard of by-gone Type-III Angels that, if any still survive, are barely what they once were, and are dying examples of their dead culture. This is what I see as supported by the books as printed, so I don't see why there is a heavy-handed view of 'brokenness' and a call to any necessity of tossing anything out, or anything suggesting that the material break that feel internally, when notthing is suggested to be used in a way that breaks that setting, in any of that material. If you need to make a change for your game to accomplish a different feel, sure, change it for that. That is kinda the view that the Star Frontiers Setting was based on, but is frequently over done in my opinion. It seems to fit it's setting and genre well enough to call it functional, so personally I don't see it as broken. Perhaps unsupported, and incomplete, yes. Misunderstood, and at times overly generic, certainly. Unclarified, and misrepresented, frequently. Oh, and wrapped in age-old role-playing debates, about definition semantics, and style preferences, constantly. This includes Zeb's, which I do take with a grain of salt, but not so much as to throw out a whole chunk. (the timeline? yeah, obviously it's own topic, after that overview view...) Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 May 15, 2011 - 9:01am | I think the essence of my rejection of Zeb's was that it was trying to alter the mechanics of the root game I enjoyed so much. Alpha Dawn and Knighthawks had a certain "feel" to the presentation. What I was expecting was an Alpha Dawn Part 2, not what seemed to be a NEW game with dopey art thumbing its nose at the game I already loved. Yes, there were things that I was able to salvage from Zebs. But as a whole, Zeb's guide made a great coaster for my big horking coffee cup that always got sloshed around during game play. Truly an absorbing work Zeb's Guide was and continues to be.  My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
 May 15, 2011 - 5:11pm | With the only saving grace being background info and new equipment, the whole thing is just a giant sack of crap. It's like the author's said "well what we did before just wasn't good enough so let's just complicate it more and hope everyone feels like they are part of something more important because it's more complicated." It's funny, with the exception of Star Fleet Battles, almost all of the super complicated game systems have given up and gone home. |
May 15, 2011 - 5:22pm | I didn't hear that view, from any of the author's, during any of their interviews. Even after they were released from contract obligations of PR. I can understand how it might appear that way though. I guess I did omit any statement about the new Xeno-species in Zeb's, but in simplicity I'll say that they are as much a part of the overall setting for me, as any other part. In other posts I have mentioned that I feel there is some over-crowding potential, but when the population sizes, origin backgrounds, and the overall size of volume involved is taken into account, it isn't quite as bad as it appears at first glance. New Xeno-species mentioned in works beyond Zeb's release, (including SFman) are [imho] better placed beyond the boarders of that volume of interstellar space. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
May 15, 2011 - 7:43pm | I didn't hear that view, from any of the author's, during any of their interviews. Even after they were released from contract obligations of PR. Please dont take this the wrong way, spiritcoyote, but commenting on interviews that you've done with original authors makes you sound like the pope speaking "ex-chathedra" (the same as speaking with canonicity). I'm not against you having inside information form an original game developer but I'd be very interested in listening to an audio or reading a transcript of such an interview. Its the historian in me that likes to evaluate the original documents and not just blindly be told what is and how it is by another historian. To be sure, we all read history written by historians but I also like to double check what historians have to say and its always interesting to read first hand accounts from people that lived it. so if you dont mind would you provide the content of those interviews? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 15, 2011 - 8:16pm | My comment was not a quote or based on any interview. As I said, It's like the author's said "well what we did before just wasn't good enough so let's just complicate it more and hope everyone feels like they are part of something more important because it's more complicated." My feeling on the issue is that if the original system worked for them then why create a new overly complicated system when a working game mechanic that the players loved was already in place. It gives the distinct impression that they were just changing it to display their cleverness instead of building on something that already works and just improving it. I see this all the time in PHX when a developer bull dozes a perfectly good and beautiful building to construct a new trendy monstrosity and everyone ends up saying I loved the original building so much better... I had my first date their, had my first job there, remember that time when..., and that great resturant they had... etc. |
May 15, 2011 - 8:36pm | AZ_Gamer, that was one of the best criticisms of Zebs I've read (Imperial Lord still has one of the funniest-IMO) Still with recent work done on this site and in the zine with the ifshnits and humma- I cant help but want to keep them in the setting. I suppose we could flush Zebs and hand wave an explanation for who and what the CFM is; they do appear in KH's.Though I doubt that I'd ever totally flush Zebs. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 15, 2011 - 8:44pm | Great Jupiter's B***'s, I mean, Spheres! I didn't know spiritcoyote got to speak to one of SF's creators! That's friggin' awesome! I would love to pick their minds in a Q & A session or twenty! Dang my life sux!  My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
May 15, 2011 - 11:25pm |  live long enough, and you will have taken your seven steps, no mater how sedentary you thought you had been... and get to dance with Kevin Bacon.  in any case, not the pope... not nearly as crooked or wise, but thanks... glad you think highly enough that I compare to His Holiness. wow... weird... concept...And i was referring to interviews in general, there have been many, and I listen to book radio and similar channels in various venues frequently, so I wasn't referring to personal interviews and such, just in general, I don't believe that's what they were thinking, doesn't jibe with anything I have heard from them. Sorry if that wasn't clear from me AZ_GAMER , I wasn't intending to get personal there either. I can actually see where you are coming from, I did say that as well, though it may not have been noticed... (kinda like some of those quotes hidden in a unrelated paragraph issues that come up in every RPG, I and some other posters, have referred some of the items of 'brokeness' toward those, but I have noticed the questioners still come back around with the same questions. Mistakes are what humans do best, I am hardly an exception to that view... )You and everyone has a right to their feelings on any subject, I am not trying to change that, but I have some solutions to some of the items that don't require tossing out whole chunks or whole books... but it is your decision to make. I have as much apocrypha to offer as any canonical information, but I am not forcing it on anyone, I hope. just posting what I know... like any part of any game... you are free to do it your way anyway... somebody might find it useful, just as I find a lot of useful information in everyone else's posts. I think w00t was right, we won't likely all agree on it... again, that's kewl... I still agree with w00t that it could be done, and possibly should be at least attempted. I am just providing my part... the SFman is still around, and I still have a few books to pursue, and I have heard enough of the 'insider interviews' that were part of the conventions others have been to and made public, ask them for transcripts of panel dialogue, not me... don't know why I get elevated to sainthood, other than the misunderstanding... so.. I have heard some interviews that others haven't, I have seen a few movies, or read a few books others haven't, take the info I provided and use it or ignore it... consider it as holy or unholy as you like... I don't know... I do the same with everyone else's comments, that I imagine are also based on things I haven't heard, read, or from people I havent' met... it is justinformation, useful to fill in those blanks, it has value if you want it. Not here to debate, right and wrong way to play, if you are having fun it's correct... if you have decided to ignore all the rules and make your own... kewl... le'me see it... if you have questions or misunderstandings that lead to a view of some part being broken... I will try and see if I can fill in the missing data from what I know, clarify some part the way I see it, or refer you to some part that may have been overlooked... that's all... you can still do it your way... and sure... if there is some part that seems to be missing, misrepresented, misunderstood, or unclear to me... I hope somebody on the boards will offer something other than just... throw it out... and yeah, I was actually invited to the timeline discussion, but I stumbled on this one looking for the different takes on those rulings... so I offered my overview of the whole book... I didn't really think it would be taken seriously... considering the views posted already... but I offered, because I was asked. it's ok... but, I am sorry if I offered too much... Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
May 15, 2011 - 11:42pm | I think a lot of players here have some strong feelings about Zebs. For me, I almost quit the game because of the direction that system was taking it. It was actually fortunate that the game ceased to exist as a product shortly afterwards and we weren't forced to endure an second guide book. Not that the concept is bad, a well thought out Zeb's guide without the new game mechanics would be a welcome addition to my bookshelf. However as it stands, I have little interest in Zebs and to this day refuse to use it in my games except as resource material. |
May 16, 2011 - 4:24am | I would contend, and this from someone who has a friend in the Opus Dei or a similar hard core catholic group (I just cant remember the exact name- but he is an otherwise good guy to play D&D with), that comparing you to the pope is the furthest thing from elevating you to sainthood- quite the oposite IMO. the pope only enters into it as I felt you were making a lot of ex-chathedra statements that seem to be difficult to check and require we just take you word on it. @AZ_Gamer: I would have loved to get Vol 2 and 3 of Zebs, if for no other reason then to have had bionics and etc which were never covered anywhere int he canon- despite the comments you can find on the internet about the bionics rules that were intended for Zebs vol 2 could be found in a certain GamaWorld module that took me forever to run down a copy on ebay at a reasonable price only to find that that claim was a crock of pudu. At anyrate we've had some nice articles on implants and bionics in the zine so I guess its all good now anyhow. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 May 16, 2011 - 7:23am | On the other side of the galaxy at least we have Zeb's, after all it's another product from the game we love. :-) |
May 16, 2011 - 8:01am | With an immense amount of respect to you all, Zeb's guide is Alpha Dawns ugly sister. Same family, but (shudders) you wouldn't want to date her. My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
May 16, 2011 - 8:52pm | @AZ_GAMER again, I totally agree, same SIT-REP from me, I initially hated what I saw in Zeb's on initial reaction. Hated where it seemed to be heading, and saw it as needing a heavy overhaul. My attitude has changed overtime, however, and become more mellow. Now I see that it wasn't as threatening as I had thought, that it was intended to show a few extreme possibilities, but they were not planned to be used in an extreme. The new races are under-populous, and not in a severe threat to saturate the frontier, and the timeline isn't quite so damaged that it can't be used and expanded on and still be fitting with whatever style you might prefer. Again my fixes aren't canon, they are based on long development with many dedicated people, from a variety of backgrounds, willing to use all the material in the books as canon, and ret-con without deconstruction. I don't have all the original material from that attempt, because the project, as such projects are apt to become, was disbanded, and some of the mateiral went off to be part of other projects anyway, in favor of something else the community, as a whole couldn't agree on wanting. I can only answer for what I can answer for, and hope that is worth something to anyone willing to give it a fair try. I am interested in what others have done as well. Again, I totally understand the strong feelings that Zeb's brings up in (many? probably...) people, I was, and often still am, one of those people. One person's demon is another's angel, and an angel today may be a demon tomorrow, times and people change views, it's historically supported, I don't know how much of a truism. I am not trying to be either, just offering my overview, and answer a few misconceptions that I noticed being overlooked, in questions that I have seen repeated. I only responded out of an invite, I was sure there would likely be attempts (either by intentional manipulation, or by preconceived misunderstanding) to drag the topic into sabotage, so I get what I knew I would, when sticking my neck out. If clarifying the material in the book isn't worth anyone's time, kewl, if it is, kewl... it maters not to me either way anymore... as it apparently doesn't to the many that would just throw it out anyway, rather than bother... As much as I dislike parts of the Zeb's myself, I dislike making a Rule-0 call, just for the sake of doing so. Maybe it is leftover resentment on my part, for having several different GM's 'blow-up-the-park' just to kill the game, and eliminate a few bad players... that kind of mentality I find distasteful... and tossing out a whole section without even considering the usefulness, or taking the possibility that it might be misunderstandings that need clarifying... feels the same to me. Offering that as the only solution to someones query for clarification, in-spite of many attempts to gain a clarification... and knocking over attempts by others to clarify... even for themselves... also feels that way, to me. But, it does come down to, the only sensible answer I have ever heard given to "When is it no longer the X-Y-Z game?", the answer "It quits being X-Y-Z, when the money changes hands, and the product leaves the store.", then it becomes [customer-name-here]'s game, and [customer] can do with it what [customer] wants... if [customer] considers The Book so broken as not to use it for anything other than a verbal punching-bag, [customer] has that right. Doing that doesn't make sense to me, but on that point I have no valid argument against it, only subjective ones.  Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
May 16, 2011 - 9:10pm | [spiritcoyote wrote] "live long enough, and you will have taken your seven steps, no mater how sedentary you thought you had been... and get to dance with Kevin Bacon."  Wait w-w-w-wait a sec... Are you saying that you know someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who (inhales heavily) knows someone who know someone who actually KNOWS Kevin Bacon?? Ah hell, my life REALLY sux.  My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
May 16, 2011 - 9:31pm | NO, but I am saying I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who (inhales heavily) knows someone who know someone who actually KNOWS your neighbors former college roommate!  you might want to check how close that roomate got to Kevin Bacon tho... maybe bought a latte in the starbux standing on the same streetcorner... [idr]Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
May 16, 2011 - 10:18pm |  My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
May 17, 2011 - 7:59am | Now that you all know each-other you can't possibly imagine what its like having the brain the size of a planet. I'M IN THE KNOW! ...brain size of a planet and they ask me to run a SF site for humans. Call that job satisfaction 'cause I don't. |
May 17, 2011 - 8:09pm | Ah Marvin, not to worry. You're our faaaaavorite Mechanon ya are.  My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
May 18, 2011 - 12:53am | HEY!! who you calling a humans? Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
