 June 11, 2008 - 1:03am | I'm not posting this as a member of the "Alpha Team", or attempting to drum up more traffic as Bill's friend. I'm just posting this as me, and I'm wondering... ...where the heck is everybody? Is there a bunch of activity going on in the projects that I'm just not seeing? This site looks like it's on life support, with a few dedicated people (Thanks, guys! Please, keep up the love!) talking and hundreds of people with nothing to say or do. Bill himself is missing, and hasn't even bothered to drop us a line just to let us know he's still alive. My love for Star Frontiers has gone back into the dusty old box in my mental closet and I've pretty much moved on. Has the Revival sputtered out? If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. -- Carl Sagan |
 June 11, 2008 - 4:37am | Sputtered out? No. In past endevours, things slow down over the summer. Nice weather and more daylight hours, people are just staying distracted and going on vacations. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
 June 11, 2008 - 5:55am | Summer time. Happens every year. I have three small children bouncing around, wanting to go to the park... extended daylight hours, the better movies of the year come out in this season, hiking, family vacations, visitors from out of town on their vacations, etc. I sure I could list more generic reasons that Summer Time wins over sitting in a dark room typing on my pc. <insert witty comment here> |
 June 11, 2008 - 6:13am | Oh yeah and dont forget work! Confucious Says: Man with one chopstick go hungry. Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement. |
 June 11, 2008 - 6:51am | I've been feeling the same way, Corvus, and long before the nice weather. Are we doomed to remain a core of diehards? We live in a strange world, Corvus. To be a Star Frontiers fan is to be in a situation with Wizards of the Coast leering over us, where not a single penny can ever be made off of this stuff. Now, I understand that the "love of the game" should be good enough (and if you check the frequency and, I hope, the quality of my posts I hope I am part of that group) but for some, it must be deeply troubling and frustrating. The lack of an available profit motive severely damages the revival. And the profit possibility will not ever come back - we have all gone over this a thousand times. Wizards of the Coast (Hasbro?) would like us to just go away. They have sold their souls to Star Wars and we are just a distant memory to them. To some of the younger lurkers, we are probably like something of an ant farm. "Look at the workers, piling grains of sand on a dead game!" They watch and read. They enjoy our scientific analyses and plot ideas for their own games that they actually play. How active are Star Wars RPG boards? Or the other games? I have said this many times before - until we start playing games again and particularly establish a Convention presence, this game will never rise again. We will remain workers in the ant farm, on display. We need to dedicate ourselves to playing the game that we love so much. Then allow the lurkers out there to read about our mad-cap adventures. First they will read, and then they will want to play. Then the community will prosper. I do have a small ray of hope: I have been able to recruit RPG gamers by bouncing around the chat rooms of OpenRPG and Yahoo RPG chat. In fact, I think I am going to do that to breathe new life into "All That Glitters" and get up to that consistent 3+ PC threshold that I hold so near and dear... |
 June 11, 2008 - 7:05am | It's summer and because of the lack of playing SF I've incorporated other RPG's in my hobby. The only current game is SWII of which we need to get back in the saddle on! I think what would keep things going is the Webzine and online gaming. The webzine needs Bill (even though he has a staff) but he is stretched way to thin. The Webzine take an incredible amount of time and without dedicated submissions and schedules it will be too long between issues to keep it _______. I've tried to get SF going in my community but I need another player dedicated in the area to get things rolling. Most of my friends have fond memories of the game but are interested in other games right now. My wife and I play off and on as time permits. |
 June 11, 2008 - 7:45am | I've been mainly swamped with work. Launch is in an hour and it has been a busy time getting ready. Also, with the college semester over, my wife is not spending 15 hours a week doing class prep at home (that was time I was spending on SF). And now my kids are out of school and being a work at home dad that takes up more of my time. On the plus side, I've been working on my SSW computer game and have a new version ready to go out, I just need to package it up and post it. I've also been working on a PBP campaign that is just about ready to start. I have a classified ad in the next Starfrontiersman that I was going to use to kick it off but if I'm ready before then I just start anyway. Probabaly in the next few weeks. I agree with Imperial Lord, we need to get more games going. Shadow Shack is projected to be back soon and so his games will start back up, Imperial Lord has one he's trying to get going and I'll be starting one. Hopefully that will help. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 June 11, 2008 - 10:01am | I have notice the same thing Corvus. It seems that interest is waning. I agree that we need to simply play the game more. I think the Starfrontiersman is also a key component to keep interest alive. I have been personally feeling a bit disillusioned about contributing to the group. I was very excited in the beginning to be involved. It helped me rediscover the game. I have had a lot of good times playing Star Frontiers again. So, I felt compelled to give something back. I contributed to the Starfrontiersman. I tried to start a game report. That way people would know we play this game instead of just talk about it. I got criticism or no feedback for my Frontiersman submissions. I got pre-criticism for my game report. Then nothing. I get a general vibe of criticism instead of encouragement around here. Maybe I am the only one that feels this way. If others feel this way, maybe that is why submissions and forum participation is low. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
June 11, 2008 - 12:29pm | See, the thing is, you guys who have responded are the ones I meant who are already active. Take a look at the member list -- there are hundreds of people who signed up for this site that I've never seen a peep from. As for the "summer" explanation, this was going on long before things got warm. You could say that things went from barely-moving to not at all, but with all those people, shouldn't the site have been more than "barely moving" before? By the way, Imp, I sure hope you meant Wizards is "looming" over us. The thought of them "leering" just gives me a cold chill in a bad plance.  If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. -- Carl Sagan |
June 11, 2008 - 1:54pm | Um, yes Corvus - looming. Correct... But maybe, in a way, leering too - in a financial sense. Watching to see if we get the game going again, so they can swoop it back up. Of course, I am probably kidding myself, since they are basically owned by Star Wars. Anyway, I know it's cold comfort, but Art's site has been a total graveyard for months... It's really weird. It all started quieting down, I would guesstimate, around February or so of this year. Then the whole Corjay explosion, which, whatever your opinion is on the matter, resulted in fewer people posting and fewer projects started, etc. Regardless of how you feel about the quality of Corjay's work, the volume was certainly there. And then you had the various reactions to it - more posts. |
June 11, 2008 - 2:53pm | I agree the whole Corjay thing didn't work out for anyone. He did contribute a lot. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
 June 11, 2008 - 3:26pm | There have been many 'issues' with this website. I feel it has turned into a talking shop...all talk and no action. There are also too many projects which spread thin the effort required to complete the project, and I also feel there is an 'elitism' broaching into some of the comments from various people. However, I'm not going to do a Corjay and dissapear. When I produce anything for Star Frontiers, I'll do so on my own and put this into Starfrontiersman directly - which is what this site was originally intended for. My time is precious now; why should I seemingly waste it by scoring points on who is more technically correct? You may completely dissagree for what I've said, but I've got a system which will produce some literature for SF which suits me fine.If people like it, great. If not, great - I really don't care. |
June 11, 2008 - 3:39pm | There have been many 'issues' with this website. I feel it has turned into a talking shop...all talk and no action. There are also too many projects which spread thin the effort required to complete the project, and I also feel there is an 'elitism' broaching into some of the comments from various people. However, I'm not going to do a Corjay and dissapear. When I produce anything for Star Frontiers, I'll do so on my own and put this into Starfrontiersman directly - which is what this site was originally intended for. My time is precious now; why should I seemingly waste it by scoring points on who is more technically correct? You may completely dissagree for what I've said, but I've got a system which will produce some literature for SF which suits me fine.If people like it, great. If not, great - I really don't care. Well said, and a great idea. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
June 11, 2008 - 4:07pm | I hope I'm not one of the ones showing 'elitism' although some of my comments may seem to. I definitely don't mean it come across that way if it is. I just give it the way I see it and you can take or leave it - it doesn't matter to me. I just happen to have a strong background in the physcial sciences and my prejudices for "realism" probably show. As a general rule I seem to hold the minority opinion on many issues and that's fine by me. If people like it, great. If not, great - I really don't care. My sentiments exactly.Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
June 11, 2008 - 4:54pm | Honestly I have been busy with real life. Work, school, and even with my own game to do much. I have tried to keep up on stuff in order to keep in the loop. I think if we could get an actual har copy of the game out (through the legal strangle holds) we could probably find som people interested in the game. If you lead a horse to water sometimes the horse might drink that water. So why dont we try do the same thing that Bill did with the starfrontiersman issues 1-6 on lulu.com? There we are out of the legal mumbo jumbo somewhat or we plead with WotC and try get them to release an open source license on Star Frontiers (which will take some extra effort). Confucious Says: Man with one chopstick go hungry. Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement. |
June 11, 2008 - 5:28pm | I will echo Gerg... real life has been the biggest issue. I have not gamed at all lately, much less a specific Star Frontiers game which is even harder to put together. I also get the feeling that the buzz over the 4e D&D books for the last few (several) months has pulled a great many folks into thinking about that game instead... When the novelty wears off, those people will gravitate back to the systems that they really love (albeit some will stay with 4e for a time). <insert witty comment here> |
June 11, 2008 - 5:42pm | Maybe that's why I'm still here. I haven't played D&D since 1984  with the exception of a couple of months in the mid 90's. It was still 2nd edition last time I played.Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 June 11, 2008 - 9:15pm | Respectfully Elpotof, I have to disagree with your assessmnet that too many projects is a bad thing. It is a "development site" after-all and the more dicussions and projects about more facets of the game only serves to improve the gaming experience because it creates more resources for gamers and refs. I don't think there is an elite-ism here as I am new to the site and have been welcome and well received. I think there is a certain amount of senority for those who have produced alot of projects and contributions and rightly so, since we could never see any kind of monetary profit from this a little senority recognition for those who produce and contribute is only a natural expectation, definitely not elite-ism everybody seems to have a good voice here. I actually appreciate it when folks disagree with me respectfully on subjects, it makes me think, consider, and then decide for myself if I want to use their approach or continue with mine. A perfect example is Imp lord's Sathar, I really appreciate his work, I think its great with lots of detail, however I use a different approach in my game but I still like the work he's done. I think you have made a lot of great contributions too elpotof and while you should not depend on others opinions it is important to care about the projects and community you are participating in. In my humble opinion. |
June 11, 2008 - 9:26pm | But more projects would only make it hard to find things and distributes original material throughout many projects. |
June 11, 2008 - 10:01pm | You have to remember that this is just copy that you are reading. There are no available inflections or emphases aside from capital letters and certain formatting. Things can get misconstrued as rudeness, or excessive criticism or whatever. Everyone just has to man up and have a thick skin. I welcome debate about my stuff - not a problem. Feel free to poke all the holes that you want. It means that you read it - and that is compliment enough! Me and Art last year had a knock-down, drag out over the Sathar that fell *just short* of developing into a flame war, but we both pulled back from the brink out of respect for each other's material. (Suffice it to say that he has a very different view of the Sathar than the one I posted here.) However, it was actually the BEST thing possible for me, as his challenges made me bounce back with greater details. The answers to his questions and comparisons forced me to address what may have been inconsistencies with the development of the Sathar theory. In turn, I hope my challenges did the same for him. Our beliefs on the Sathar remain quite different - and that's totally cool. In any case, we all can agree on this: we gotta play. |
June 11, 2008 - 10:22pm | Just remeber this quote "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend it to my dying breath for you to say it." (or something like that). Everybody has their own opinions on what is canon and what is not. Some like this and others like that. If we are going to have a community that survives from everybody else's different ideas then that means we are going to have to get use to looking a new ideas and even taking some harsh scrutiny when we post our material. There are many reasons why there are different projects. Think of it as a way to expand your game. Remember when the United States first started out the thirteen colonies could barely manage to create a country. Think of this community as that. We are a struggling country that needs to get use to the idea that we may be the only ones who actually play SF or care about SF any more. So just think of this community as a way to keep the game going. So take all of these different projects as a blessing. It means there is interest and you can help. Confucious Says: Man with one chopstick go hungry. Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement. |
 June 12, 2008 - 1:22am | Well said, G. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 June 12, 2008 - 5:00am | I'm sure that when Bill put this site together, he hoped it would take on a life of it own. But in my experience, someone always has to be the glue that holds a site together and keep the gears freshly oiled. Without someone actively in that role... things tend to grind down. And then there is the fact that the setup of this site just isn't all that friendly to the casual participant. Most people are going to be very unfamiliar with the way things are set up here... and I suspect that much of the interesting content is never even seen by new users. And then there is the Star Frontiersman itself... the life-blood that launched the site. Most people don't know where anything stands with that right now. I don't think I ever saw an "official" list of "Staff" that was picked... let alone an official release schedule... or any significant changes to the way it was going to be produced. As it goes, this site will go. |
June 12, 2008 - 10:28am | Full Bleed, you have some good points but remember everything we do here is unpaid, will always be unpaid (unless Wizards decides to have change of heart), and done on our own time. So with this in mind, and the fact that when left with the choice of time management of that which pays the bills and that which does not, I think it is more than fair to be paitent and flexible on the release of the Frontiersman. Recently I spent 30 hours of my own time working up artwork for woots' FTLT project. I would have loved to have spent 80 hours on it but I have to work and this is just for fun so any projects I work on for it has to take second fiddle to my vocations. Like most volunteer projects I have ever been on, I am sure if you would like to help with the burdens of production (and I dont mean to speak for Bill) you could certainly help Bill get the Frontiersman out on a more consistent basis. I for one, am just pleased that we even have a fan-zine even if I have to wait for it from time to time. Lets also not forget what Bill has had to deal with on the home-front with his recent loss and that is extremely time consuming endeavor that always should take a front seat top priority over the concerns of a Role Playing Game. |
 June 12, 2008 - 10:38am | Howdy. Not really adding anything that hasn't already been said, just letting you know that I havn't given up on the site. |
 June 12, 2008 - 2:04pm | I am still here. I like to see this site go on. I do put my two cents worth in here and there. And, yes people will critisize everything, but, I like to see it as good insite on their part. The material may to plain or inconsistent with other stuff. We do have the basics from the books. What I think we need to do is pick ones that fit the best into a manual that exspesses a basic players manual. Then start building from there. My son see's this site as "lots of people doing their own thing no co-operation." This is from a twelve year old. I have let him read my works and what is on here. He likes bits and pieces of all but not just one. He would rather just stay with the original books than dig around for good stuff that is here. There is more but I will leave that upto him to say or not. If this hurts anyone, sorry. It was not intended to anger anyone. Just trying to get a point across that a fresh mind has observed. Do not get to harsh with return comments. |
 June 12, 2008 - 9:58pm | Um, well, life, online games slowed to a crawl with SS out, got sick of spreadsheets, and my computer's performance annoys me to no end when doing "work". Pending anything unforseen, my computer fund is, um, funded, and I'm awaiting the next MacBook release to determine what I'm going to buy... |
June 13, 2008 - 8:21am | Full Bleed, you have some good points but remember everything we do here is unpaid, will always be unpaid Never implied otherwise. But *this* site grew out of the Star Frontiersman's success which was on a remarkably regular release schedule before this site entered the equation. At any rate, it's a far cry from a regular schedule and a growing fan-base to no schedule and a fan-base that has absolutely no idea what's going on with it. And a far cry from a figurehead that had a significant amount of time to contribute to the ezine to a figurehead that now appears to have virtually no time. The consequence is, and will continue to be, lower activity and participation on this site. Like most volunteer projects I have ever been on, I am sure if you would like to help with the burdens of production (and I dont mean to speak for Bill) you could certainly help Bill get the Frontiersman out on a more consistent basis. Heck, first thing I did when I saw the SFman was sit down and work on a map project I'd wanted to do many years ago (an updated version of Zebs.) I think it's in Issue 6. I did it for fun and to support the project and I'm not even playing SF now (and haven't for at least 10 years.) I for one, am just pleased that we even have a fan-zine even if I have to wait for it from time to time. I don't care when it comes out... or if it ever comes out. No one is owed the project and it gets done when it gets done. But I think the expectation that this site will continue to grow without focus and without SFMan to anchor it is a little naive. |
 June 13, 2008 - 10:55am | Been out for a while myself with health and work...but it's good to be back. Not entirely back but working on it LOL. Just got back from a well earned two week vacation (drove from Vegas to Ocala & Orlando and back) so once I'm resituated I hope to jump back into things. First thing on the agenda: I gotta locate my Basically Speaking material and game notes... |
June 13, 2008 - 11:05am | Anyway, I know it's cold comfort, but Art's site has been a total graveyard for months... See...this is another disturbing trend. Before I was active at SF.org Omega Rising was the active SF forum. Then things got eerily quiet. SF.org began to reviatlize about that time, and then it was handed over to Art. Things picked up for a while and slowed down once more, to the point where I found myself logging in less and less. Then I stumbled upon this site. One thing I have to observe here, the staff of SFus is active in the content and that helps far more than an "absentee landlord". I liked Art's site for the most part, but it became too Orbitter and Vector related which to me, took away from the feel of the original game. Mind you I'll give anyopne's house rules a whirl, but the core values have to be the focus of any site. I run a Honda motorcycle forum and I'm quite sure things wouldn't be the same for the new and long time members alike, even though a good handful of us all share the same views on both ends, if I turned it into a handgun forum. In the end the success of a forum depends on the host/staff interest in the topic, and I firmly believe that the team here has become fully involved. |
June 13, 2008 - 1:27pm | What might help slightly is allowing all members to see all posts in all projects, just in case they are not members of the project... Also - could the number of people signing up be because of some sort of spam thingie? I remember Art's site getting dozens and dozens of people from Albania at one point. They never posted, and I never knew Albania to be a hotbed of SF activity... My point is that maybe some of these inactive accounts are actually phony? |
