Misjumps Tables

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
August 8, 2016 - 3:06pm
Okay this is a blog site for Traveler regarding Misjumps but it has some fun ideas: http://dismastersden.blogspot.it/2016/08/traveller-interesting-misjumps-table.html?zx=ca8870f3d5be54f6

Some great fun stuff... to spice up the oopsy moment. Foot in mouth
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."
Comments:

iggy's picture
iggy
August 18, 2016 - 6:36pm
Conserning flash drives.  They last a lot longer when used as read only devices.  However, the best thing to do is make multiple copies of important stuff and keep it in seperate locations.  Then there is data center advantages where they are always backing up your data and such.  This takes the thread in an entirly different direction with some stiff opinions.

But back to SF (the real important stuff).

I have never limited my players with storage in game.  They can record and store most anything in an adventure.  They typically access the planetary networks and search for information.  When on undeveloped worlds then they can access their ship if they have one and it has general databanks of history and references but not detailed unless they put it there.  Also a ship must update with the planetary networks for current events.  When in an undeveloped system this may not always be timely or possible.

Could jump routes be recorded on a data cube and traded/sold?  Yes, that is how new routes are established.  However, this still causes the astrogator to do current calculations to use the recorded jump data because the current conditions are never exactly like the past conditions.
-iggy

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
August 18, 2016 - 6:49pm
Right, talking about technical details in game is more for players that like that level of versimilitude (which includes my group).

Using pre-plotted data is certainly one work around. The only point I was trying to make is that the actual computation time is ridiculously long by modern standards.  Maybe in the mid 80s it wasn't unreasonable but the exponential growth in computing power makes it a bit unbelievable now.

jedion357's picture
jedion357
August 20, 2016 - 5:48am
Amen.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
September 2, 2016 - 8:40am
ChrisDonovan wrote:
Makes an even better argument for updating the computers rules.  We can do work on desktops and some higher-end laptops that in the mid 80s would have required a mainframe supercomputer.

This can be overstated. Star Frontiers computers are still way more advanced than most of our computers, and their bulk is not as high as sometimes thought. Slingshot Simmons's business computer is level 1 (Analysis level 2, Commerce level 2, Information Storage level 1). It can run his entire business about as well as any computer we have, and it only weighs 3 kg—about the size of a bulky early '90s laptop, and definitely smaller than a modern mini-tower desktop.

So while the Frontier's technology is bulkier than ours, it's also more advanced. Their computers and robots are nearly sentient, not ours. They routinely build spaceships, we don't. The technology isn't wrong; it's just different.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
September 2, 2016 - 11:11am
Stormcrow wrote:
ChrisDonovan wrote:
Makes an even better argument for updating the computers rules.  We can do work on desktops and some higher-end laptops that in the mid 80s would have required a mainframe supercomputer.

This can be overstated. Star Frontiers computers are still way more advanced than most of our computers, and their bulk is not as high as sometimes thought. Slingshot Simmons's business computer is level 1 (Analysis level 2, Commerce level 2, Information Storage level 1). It can run his entire business about as well as any computer we have, and it only weighs 3 kg—about the size of a bulky early '90s laptop, and definitely smaller than a modern mini-tower desktop.

So while the Frontier's technology is bulkier than ours, it's also more advanced. Their computers and robots are nearly sentient, not ours. They routinely build spaceships, we don't. The technology isn't wrong; it's just different.


Good points, though it would be good to come up with some more streamlined seeming computer systems for Star Frontiers. The body comp is an interesting idea -- and one that various inventors are working on now -- but the SF version seems antiquated.

Is there any way to share ideas on how to improve them? I imagine having what would be called Level 0 computers -- basically specialized computer tuools all the way up to a level 8, which would be full AI. Similar to the robot rules that I came up with (though I wish someone had pointed out to me that there was a project called Omnibus Roboticus that would have been helpful, but I had come up with some similar ideas.

Of course, I never thought of what a robot's total carrying capacity should be and at what point it might become encumbered. That's food for thought for an updated -- though much smaller -- story.
Joe Cabadas

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
September 3, 2016 - 10:19am
RE, computers:  The first film to extensively use CG (The Last Starfighter) looked like a video game and had to be rendered by a Cray supercomputer.  Barely a decade later, Babylon 5 was doing work 1000x better on a bunch of Mac desktops

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 3, 2016 - 11:02am
Tron has extensive use of CGI and came out two years earlier. There are earlier films that can be traced to CGI use as well.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
September 4, 2016 - 8:25am
ChrisDonovan wrote:
RE, computers:  The first film to extensively use CG (The Last Starfighter) looked like a video game and had to be rendered by a Cray supercomputer.  Barely a decade later, Babylon 5 was doing work 1000x better on a bunch of Mac desktops

And Star Frontiers computers show completely holographic entertainment...

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
September 4, 2016 - 8:34am
JCab747 wrote:
Is there any way to share ideas on how to improve them? I imagine having what would be called Level 0 computers -- basically specialized computer tuools all the way up to a level 8, which would be full AI. Similar to the robot rules that I came up with (though I wish someone had pointed out to me that there was a project called Omnibus Roboticus that would have been helpful, but I had come up with some similar ideas.

I wouldn't bother. Computers less than level 1 are just gadgets—they drive devices, but you don't program them or use them like full-fledged computers.

A chronocom, for instance, must have computerized parts inside it, but it's not a computer with a level, and it doesn't need to be.

You only need rules where the rules are useful.

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
September 4, 2016 - 5:07pm
Going back to the Slingshot Simmons example.  The described abilities of his set of programs is essentially the same as Quicken bookkeeping software.

gnytro's picture
gnytro
October 13, 2016 - 4:22pm
Two comments:

1. Regarding days spent in Jump, including accel/decel, I got used to many years of Traveller, where jumps take one week no matter what, and your drive rating reflects how many light years/parsecs/map hexes you travel in that time, so I have no problem with jumps of 7 to 9 or more days.

The idea that "no jump can take less than 9 days" is true in KH, but using AD rules it's not true. Refer to AD Expanded Rule Book page 49:
"Because FTL ships travel one light-year per day, this number is also the number of days needed to travel this route. This time includes take off and landing, maneuvering in orbit, passenger loading and all other normal procedures."
In other words, The example of 9 days from Prenglar to Cassadine includes all time spent on board, from boarding to deboarding, and includes take off, accel, jump, decel and landing. It takes 9 days because those two worlds are 9 parsecs/light-years apart.

For all things except ship-to-ship combat, I default to the AD rules, including interstellar travel. One major reason I returned to playing SF after years of Traveller is that I got tired of the math. Neither game is astrophysically 'correct' or so called 'hard science sci-fi', so figure placing story and adventure first and just using the fast and loose AD style rules works just fine.

2.As far as Tech levels in comparison to the reality of modern tech vs the assumptions about modern tech made in the early 80s when the game was written, I've come to the point where I embrace the sometimes cheesy retrofuturism of it all and ignore comparisons to real life. The tech in the game works in the context of the setting just fine, I've learned that trying to explain or expand it too much just tends to complicate things.

3. Finally, regarding the OP, I love those tables. They're fun and interesting and can lead to some nice side treks in the adventure, and "rules lite" enough to make converting from Traveller a breeze. I don't know that I'd actually use the "decel into an alternate universe reality" stuff, but it's fun to think about. 

Edit to clarify a poorly worded summary of what I was replying to.
~ Rich
berentiu@gmail.com

gnytro's picture
gnytro
October 13, 2016 - 5:12pm
As a side note, regarding jump speeds in AD and ship construction in KH:

A ship that requires A class drives that is upgraded to B class drives subtracts one day from all jump times, likewise a ship needing A drives that has C drives installed subtracts 2 days from all jumps.

That of course means also that ships requiring B drives that upgrades to C drives takes one less day to complete its jumps.

Regardless of engines though, all jumps take at least one day, to factor in accel/decel and maneuvering from port to a safe jump point, etc.

Just to give the players some options and add some variety to "npc" ships, as well as separate the pcs from some of their hard earned credits. 
~ Rich
berentiu@gmail.com

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 13, 2016 - 8:02pm
gnytro wrote:
Two comments:

1. Regarding days spent in Jump, including accel/decel, I got used to many years of Traveller, where jumps take one week no matter what, and your drive rating reflects how many light years/parsecs/map hexes you travel in that time, so I have no problem with jumps of 7 to 9 or more days.

The idea that "no jump can take less than 9 days" is true in KH, but using AD rules it's not true. Refer to AD Expanded Rule Book page 49:
"Because FTL ships travel one light-year per day, this number is also the number of days needed to travel this route. This time includes take off and landing, maneuvering in orbit, passenger loading and all other normal procedures."
In other words, The example of 9 days from Prenglar to Cassadine includes all time spent on board, from boarding to deboarding, and includes take off, accel, jump, decel and landing. It takes 9 days because those two worlds are 9 parsecs/light-years apart.

For all things except ship-to-ship combat, I default to the AD rules, including interstellar travel. One major reason I returned to playing SF after years of Traveller is that I got tired of the math. Neither game is astrophysically 'correct' or so called 'hard science sci-fi', so figure placing story and adventure first and just using the fast and loose AD style rules works just fine.

2.As far as Tech levels in comparison to the reality of modern tech vs the assumptions about modern tech made in the early 80s when the game was written, I've come to the point where I embrace the sometimes cheesy retrofuturism of it all and ignore comparisons to real life. The tech in the game works in the context of the setting just fine, I've learned that trying to explain or expand it too much just tends to complicate things.

3. Finally, regarding the OP, I love those tables. They're fun and interesting and can lead to some nice side treks in the adventure, and "rules lite" enough to make converting from Traveller a breeze. I don't know that I'd actually use the "decel into an alternate universe reality" stuff, but it's fun to think about. 

Edit to clarify a poorly worded summary of what I was replying to.


Thanks for joining the discussion. I hope you can give some feedback on some other recent postings too.
Joe Cabadas

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
October 14, 2016 - 6:51pm
I still scratch my head over the canon misjump rule that mandates arriving at a random star within X number of light years radius of the destination star (with X being the number of light years for the intended jump). I get the ideal at how a miscalculation can result in a different path, but it has to take a special kind of stupid to go the opposite direction from what was intended, which is a very real possibility according to that rule.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 14, 2016 - 6:54pm
Shadow Shack wrote:
I still scratch my head over the canon misjump rule that mandates arriving at a random star within X number of light years radius of the destination star (with X being the number of light years for the intended jump). I get the ideal at how a miscalculation can result in a different path, but it has to take a special kind of stupid to go the opposite direction from what was intended, which is a very real possibility according to that rule.


Yes. I can see it being more of a cone or a 180 degree arc in the intended direction of travel unless you have that "special kind of stupid" thing happen.
Joe Cabadas

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
October 25, 2016 - 9:50am
I assume this is the effect of the Void, where time and direction are not the same as in the normal universe. Cross those stellar gravitational potentials in the Void even a hair off course, and you could whiplash around and end up emerging in any direction.

Imagine a spaceship flying close to a planet but too fast to end up in orbit: it swings around and could end up going in any direction, depending on the tiniest variations in its course. Now take this to the Void where time mostly doesn't exist and this slingshot happens almost instantly.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 25, 2016 - 1:26pm
Stormcrow wrote:
I assume this is the effect of the Void, where time and direction are not the same as in the normal universe. Cross those stellar gravitational potentials in the Void even a hair off course, and you could whiplash around and end up emerging in any direction.

Imagine a spaceship flying close to a planet but too fast to end up in orbit: it swings around and could end up going in any direction, depending on the tiniest variations in its course. Now take this to the Void where time mostly doesn't exist and this slingshot happens almost instantly.


Now that is an interesting observation!

Though, I would think it would not be as common a result as moving somewhere in the intended direction.
Joe Cabadas

jedion357's picture
jedion357
October 28, 2016 - 3:06pm
I think the rule that Shadow objects to is simply a rules light quick and dirty rule of the time.

I also think that a house rule to deal with this is not a problem either. What the house rule should be I cannot say for sure now but I would use the cannon rule or referee fiat if I needed to.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!