Balancing some optional imbalances in Star Frontiers

jedion357's picture
jedion357
July 7, 2016 - 12:38am
Mentalism and Gama Dawn mutations are both optional add on. The only way to balance these for all characters is that all players must opt in with a "me too". 

I just had an idea for possibly balancing these: in Middle Earth Role Playing the character creation process include 5 (I forget what they were called) character points. A player could spend these for extra money, an entry level magic item, better stats, more skill, etc 

So let's say that we port this concept to SF? 

Starting characters are not very capable so the ability to buy a bump to the ability scores or a new skill won't unbalance the game, IMO.

Options for SF would be:
1. Role again for starting money and add to previous balance
  • 2. Plus 5 points to be split up among the ability scores
3. One level 1 skill
4. For two of these points a first level skill becomes level two
5. A mentalism power (if referee allows) or it may be 1 point to unlock mentalism ability for character and another to take a mentalism power.
6. Same for GW mutation (if allowed by referee).

7. If all points are spent together PC can start with a ship ( small and it has repair issues or quirks.)

8. Social standing: some level of celebrity: PC is related by birth to "royalty": CEO, EVP or actual head of state, sports or entertainment celeb or hero of one heroic act: landing a plane on Hudson River or having highest number of sniper kills in Land Fleet history. 

9. Fluency in a language

10. Rank: prior military or government organization exp and already attained the rank of senior NCO or low level officer (usually Lt.). This requires that PCs skill reflect the rank position.

Money, languages and the star ship would be the only places you could pump all 5 character points. The other areas would be restricted to 3 character points. Skills: this would mean either 3 level 1 skills or a level 1 and a level 2 skill. Mentalism and Gama Dawn: one point to unlock and up to 2 powers at level 1. Ability scores: no more than 15 points added to PC. Social standing and rank could only be taken once. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
July 12, 2016 - 8:17am
Though in many ways Knight Hawks is inspired by and emulates World War II naval ships, one must not follow the analogy too closely. Spaceships in Star Frontiers are MUCH more complicated and expensive than watergoing ships.

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
July 12, 2016 - 9:35am
By the same token, the basic tech level is much higher, making it easier to build and operate them in the first place.

The game is trying to have it both ways.  Starships are allegedly supposed to be rare and expensive, while at the same space travel is cheap enough that merchants can make money shipping basic ores and mass consumer goods over interstellar distances.  Realistically you can't have both.

It's a classic sci-fi paradox.

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
July 12, 2016 - 1:20pm
ChrisDonovan wrote:
Realistically you can't have both.

Star Frontiers is not realistic, or haven't you noticed?

Star Frontiers spaceships are cutting-edge technology in the Frontier. Spaceship skills in the Frontier are like spaceship skills in a real-life spaceship: pushing the envelope of human (or other sentient species) ability. You've got to have The Right Stuff to work on a spaceship in SF, because as complicated as our space programs' technologies are to use, the Frontier's technologies are even more complicated, and do much more. You don't just hop into a spaceship, press the ignition button, and steer to where you want to go.

So long as the amount of money the characters can make offsets the cost of the spaceship, maintenance, and fuel, or whatever parts of those they paid for, what's the problem? The system is playable.

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
July 12, 2016 - 1:39pm
Star Frontiers has traditionally styled itself as a "hard science"/"realistic game.  Despite magma monsters, implausable interstellar economics, etc.

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
July 12, 2016 - 1:53pm
Well we all read the article where we found out the game was supposed to be more framework than actual setting so we should take it with a truckload of salt that many parts of it don't sink up with other parts.

Just relax and find your balance and play style.

Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
July 12, 2016 - 5:34pm
RE: prerequisites for spacer skills
I don't mind using the SFman article "Spacer Skills Revisited" it's a decent compromise between no prerequisites and prerequisites since it goes the route of graduated prerequisites. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
July 12, 2016 - 6:28pm
^What issue was that in?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
July 12, 2016 - 8:28pm
ChrisDonovan wrote:
^What issue was that in?

SFman #10

However, I just don't see the need for prerequisites for operating ship Bourne weapons. Piloting, astrogation, and engineering yes . 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
July 12, 2016 - 9:25pm
Quote:
Well we all read the article where we found out the game was supposed to be more framework than actual setting so we should take it with a truckload of salt that many parts of it don't sink up with other parts.

Just relax and find your balance and play style.

Which article was that, rat?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
July 13, 2016 - 7:07am
ChrisDonovan wrote:
Quote:
Well we all read the article where we found out the game was supposed to be more framework than actual setting so we should take it with a truckload of salt that many parts of it don't sink up with other parts.

Just relax and find your balance and play style.

Which article was that, rat?

I think he's referring to the interview with Zeb Cook.
There was also interviews done via conference call put on speaker with Kim Eastland and Lawrence Schich but we only got a recap of the phone interview not an actual transcript though there may yet still exist a cassette tape of it we have not been able to obtain a copy of the audio; non the less we did publish what we had in FE #2.

Taken together the interviews are a window into the creation of Star Frontiers and into the office politics of a gaming company in the '80s. 

Cooks interview is in SFman #18. The format of the interview was via email. I researched the hell out of Cook, located and read every interview given by him on the web, wrote out my questions and emailed them to him. I had his responses in a few days. Perhaps if it had been a phone interview I could have followed up on some of his answers but the nature of an email interview is what it is. I was uncertain that a blind solicitation for an interview wouldn't end up in his spam folder.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
July 13, 2016 - 7:34am
@ Rattraveller: been thinking about your comments on my original post. 

Like your suggestions on social status I think military rank can be handled the same way because it's actually past military service we're talking about. Rather than social standing on a planet it's in effect reputation or social standing with current or former military. Bonus for LDR/PER rolls is full for reactions by NPCs from same service ie Land Fleet but half for other service like Space Fleet vs Land Fleet. ( Half or simply -5 for different service ).

1 character point for NCO rank (Sgt.) 2 CP for senior NCO rank Chief or Senior chief. 

Same for officer 1 point for Lt. And maybe captain, 2 points for senior officer : major/ Col. 

I hesitate to make admiral, general, or Lord Commander available though if it were then it should cost several character points and the character should be quite advanced in skill. 

There are also intangibles like reputation: micro manager, political animal, martinet, deva, leader- mission first, leader troops first and etc. Though this would be for player to choose to role play. A military reputation table might be a good idea for NPCs and referee use. 

Note: prior military exp might be a liability when dealing with mercs or it might not depending on the mercenary in question having a chip on his shoulder against actual military and in this case the bonus for PER reaction might be a penalty. Or a society might be liberal anti war types and the PER bonus becomes a penalty. Conversely past military exp might be used to obtain significant aid from an NPC. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
July 13, 2016 - 9:56am
Well most mercenaries had some type of formal military training and how they feel about serving militaries will vary greatly (Remember Arnold in Predator).

One thing is the comment that Spacefleet members are supposed to be highly respected. So what service they were in could be part of the point system. Think of it this way would Deadpool have gotten as much respect from being a member of the Rhode Island National Gaurd instead of Special Forces.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
July 13, 2016 - 12:48pm
Thanks guys!  I'll have to look those articles up.

Spacefleet OFFICERS have a good rep.  Enlisted crew are supposed to be largely disreputable scum one charismatic leader away from a pirate band.

The Rangers are supposed to be the "shining knights" of the UPF services.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
July 13, 2016 - 3:59pm
jedion357 wrote:

I think he's referring to the interview with Zeb Cook.
There was also interviews done via conference call put on speaker with Kim Eastland and Lawrence Schich but we only got a recap of the phone interview not an actual transcript though there may yet still exist a cassette tape of it we have not been able to obtain a copy of the audio; non the less we did publish what we had in FE #2.

Taken together the interviews are a window into the creation of Star Frontiers and into the office politics of a gaming company in the '80s. 

Cooks interview is in SFman #18. The format of the interview was via email. I researched the hell out of Cook, located and read every interview given by him on the web, wrote out my questions and emailed them to him. I had his responses in a few days. Perhaps if it had been a phone interview I could have followed up on some of his answers but the nature of an email interview is what it is. I was uncertain that a blind solicitation for an interview wouldn't end up in his spam folder.


That was a good interview and story. I understand the nature of email interviews. It doesn't allow for aeven the give-and-take you can get in a chat room...

Does anyone use the chat room on this website for anything?
Joe Cabadas

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
July 13, 2016 - 4:26pm
We used to occasionally but I don't actually think it works anymore. Or maybe it just doesn't work for me as I'm on Linux and have old Java versions.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
July 13, 2016 - 7:33pm
^Ah yes, the Curse of Linux and Java.  I know it well.

iggy's picture
iggy
July 13, 2016 - 10:02pm
No, chat doesn't work on Windows either.  I think the chat engine needs older java on the server or it got broke during upgrades and ports prior to TerlObar.  Anyway it has been broken for a few years and is sorely missed. 
-iggy

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
July 14, 2016 - 6:29am
I'll make getting a chat system up and working a high priority on my todo list once I have time to work on the site again.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
July 14, 2016 - 6:40am
Any chance of resurrecting the game room as well?
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

JCab747's picture
JCab747
July 14, 2016 - 8:08am
TerlObar wrote:
I'll make getting a chat system up and working a high priority on my todo list once I have time to work on the site again.


Neat idea!
Joe Cabadas

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
July 14, 2016 - 2:54pm
Shadow Shack wrote:
Any chance of resurrecting the game room as well?

Now that we've completely hijacked the thread, yes.  IIRC the "game room" was just an extension of the chat system with die rollers, which should be possible to do.  I never really used the game room, what other functionality did it have?

It has a horrible appearance but the chat rooms on the starfrontiers.info site (http://starfrontiers.info/forum/chat/) work just fine (and allow private rooms to be set up) and have a basic *d10 and *d100 die roller available (I should really add a d5 and ability to add modifiers).
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

jedion357's picture
jedion357
July 14, 2016 - 4:43pm
Thread Jackers!

LOL
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

JCab747's picture
JCab747
July 14, 2016 - 7:24pm
TerlObar wrote:
Shadow Shack wrote:
Any chance of resurrecting the game room as well?

Now that we've completely hijacked the thread...


Sorry. I just thought I'd ask... but it's a free flowing discussion. Cool
Joe Cabadas

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
July 14, 2016 - 8:53pm
TerlObar wrote:
 I never really used the game room, what other functionality did it have?

IIRC it had a whisper/PM feature along with basic chat and d% roller.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website