 June 6, 2016 - 1:53pm | In the basic rules, players are rewarded with credits to pay for equipment and healing. These are measured in the low hundreds: in the storyboard at the front of the rule book, the adventurers think two hundred credits is a lot. But in the basic game, there's very little to buy, and there is no cost of living charge. Now go to the expanded game. The same kinds of characters and adventures are generally assumed here: "Players in STAR FRONTIERS games play characters who perform special jobs for companies and planetary governments. They may work to prevent trouble, solve a mystery, explore a new planet, or perform any other sort of dangerous task." As freelance adventurers who have to spend half their income on cost of living, what are reasonable monetary rewards for missions? How much do player characters get paid? I don't think the NPC Wages table should work for this. "NPCs are not like player characters, who face danger and death constantly without worry or fear." The table is for hiring someone to just do a job, a hireling. |
 June 6, 2016 - 2:15pm | IIRC I used the NPC wages table as a basic guide and then added more. Bear in mind that players can sell loot. Well, at least my players did when they could. Other times they would get a chunk of money for carrying out a certain mission, or if they were working for a corporation they'd get X amount per day. In the last game I ran they were working for the CDC and getting 600 Cr per month each just for being basic security guards. This involved little more than patrolling CDC buildings in a van. |
 June 6, 2016 - 3:09pm | Ah, probably you can use the NPC as the base wage table for entry level PCs, but as they gain experience and fame, their compensation should rise. But a lot will depend on what they do. If they are acting as security guards in the Port Loren adventure of the Basic Game, well they probably get the hireling pay rate. But I would think the Mission to Alcazzar and the Bugs in the System jobs would offer a significant pay hike. Hey, in Dark Side of the Moon, the PCs hopefully will end up rescuing a whole planet from extinction and I think that module provides a rather heafty award. Joe Cabadas |
June 6, 2016 - 4:14pm | Yes, as players progress they find ways of making money. The trick for the referee is to make sure that they don't just get rich too quickly, as it tends to make things less interesting IMHO. |
June 6, 2016 - 4:52pm | Yes, as players progress they find ways of making money. The trick for the referee is to make sure that they don't just get rich too quickly, as it tends to make things less interesting IMHO. You mean that not everyone can be Diamond Jim Brady? Perish the thought. Joe Cabadas |
June 6, 2016 - 5:33pm | Player characters tend to get paid on a per-mission basis. It is assumed they're taking on more dangerous missions than just security guard or computer programmer, missions like "hunt down the escaped hydra" and "break into the sealed based and retrieve a missing alien artifact." How much should you dangle in front of players to get them interested in those sorts of missions in the expanded game? I just noticed that the expanded rules do have guidelines for this kind of pay: 10 credits per level of skill per day plus 10 to 100 credits per day depending on danger. Minimum 20 Cr/day; maximum 500 Cr/day. |
 June 7, 2016 - 2:13am | 10cr/day per level: a whole new incentive to drive one skill to level 5 or 6 besides being a one hit wonder with the laser set to max. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 June 7, 2016 - 4:08am | ^Well, the thing is, the rules assume that even at 10 Cr/day (half the "minimum wage"), a character can survive. He may be sleeping in a coffin hotel and eating nothing but synthfood, but he can survive on it. You also have to consider that any job that involves interstellar travel is going to rack up a fairly nice chunk of change due to the 1 LY/day rule. That is unless Frontier corporations are canny like RL ones and find ways to exclude that time from the "billable" hours. |
June 7, 2016 - 6:01am | 10cr/day per level: a whole new incentive to drive one skill to level 5 or 6 besides being a one hit wonder with the laser set to max.
Not at all. Having Computer 1, Robotics 1, Technician 1, Environmental 1, Medical 1, Psycho-Social 1 would get you the same pay as having Beam Weapons 6. |
June 7, 2016 - 6:08am | ^Well, the thing is, the rules assume that even at 10 Cr/day (half the "minimum wage"), a character can survive. He may be sleeping in a coffin hotel and eating nothing but synthfood, but he can survive on it. The rules also provide for non-adventuring income. "If a character is unemployed during any week, he can find a job that will cover his cost of living and give him an additional 5 Cr per week." A standard week is eight days: five days of work and three days off. You also have to consider that any job that involves interstellar travel is going to rack up a fairly nice chunk of change due to the 1 LY/day rule. That is unless Frontier corporations are canny like RL ones and find ways to exclude that time from the "billable" hours. I would not expect that time to be billable, no. The characters get passenger-class accommodations for free, but that's it. They wouldn't even have that job-plus-five-credits employment. On the other hand, I might consider a reduction in the cost of living charge if characters spend a lot of time on spaceships. |
June 7, 2016 - 6:53am | 10cr/day per level: a whole new incentive to drive one skill to level 5 or 6 besides being a one hit wonder with the laser set to max.
Not at all. Having Computer 1, Robotics 1, Technician 1, Environmental 1, Medical 1, Psycho-Social 1 would get you the same pay as having Beam Weapons 6. Not sure I would do it that way. "Hey, we're hiring you to work as security and don't care two spots about your qualifications in robotics, psych, and demolitions. There's no call for those things on this job." I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 7, 2016 - 10:29am | ^Good point. And you're getting lower skill for greater pay. Hiring a multi-skill character makes sense if you need both skills. If not, you're wasting money |
June 7, 2016 - 11:12am | Since player characters generally expect to use their skills, the referee should be sending them on adventures that do require their skills. Since players tend to spread their skill choices out among the group's characters anyway, there generally shouldn't be any adventures that dont' require a broad base of skills. So when a company or government hires adventurers, they're hiring agents with a broad-based skill set both among the agents and in a single agent. Thus, it makes sense to pay for every level of every skill. Player characters are not one-job workers. To put it another way: Being an armed security guard requires only a level 2 weapon skill. A company isn't going to pay a security guard for his Medical skill, so that company won't hire that character for that job. Hence, player characters don't generally work as security guards on adventures. Please remember the difference between ordinary dangerous work (like security guard or star soldier) and adventuring work (like exploring a new planet or tracking down terrorists). All the rules assume the player characters get hired for adventuring work. |
June 7, 2016 - 11:20am | I f a company was hiring a tech guy then perhaps all skills in tech PSA would figure into the wage or if their hiring an enforcer then all military PSA but some jobs like a bland security gig? I dont see them paying top dollar. And while we're at it the NPC wage table does have some interesting consequences: hiring a 2nd level psych-social vs any of the weapons skills at same level: 1 psych vs 3 projectile sharp shooters. Personally I think a lot of players might opt for being paid at the NPC rate especially for the more technical professions. To that I would suggest a house rule: pay is best rate on NPC table with a bump of 10 Cr/skill level for all skills that apply to the job. For example PC hired as a doctor who has Medic 2, Psych 1, & Environmental 1 would be paid 80 Cr as a medic with +10cr for the level of psych but nothing for environmental since he's simply there as a doctor. If he had been hired as the team scientist then the environmental would apply. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 7, 2016 - 12:01pm | but some jobs like a bland security gig? I dont see them paying top dollar.
You're not listening. Adventures aren't the kinds of jobs on the NPC Wages table. Those are the equivalent of D&D's expert hirelings. Those are non-adventuring jobs. |
June 7, 2016 - 12:16pm | @Stormcrow: yes and no. There's spreading out skills, then there's spreading out skills. Players, being the devious and greedy bunch that they are, will some times be tempted to pick up skills they wouldn't ordinarily even think of for the pay boost. Since generalists are always less effective than specialists in whatever skills they may have (especially at low levels), this can shape the narrative with good GM-ing. Well-financed expeditions needing to fill a slot for a "shooter" and one for a "Doc", for example, would probably hire a Military Specialist of some sort for the one, and a Bio-Social for the other. A less well-funded operation might decide to make do with a hybrid Military/Bio-Social who can fight and heal. While that may save them the cost of one whole character (not just in pay, but in provisions, transportation costs, etc), the quality of the work will not be as high, and if something happens to that single character, the team is down two slots at that point. It's a trade off. In any event, GMs should be actively discouraging "swiss army knife" characters from the beginning, particularly if they're doing it just to bid up their wages. |
June 7, 2016 - 12:21pm | The pay guidelines don't lead to swiss-army-knife characters either. It doesn't matter whether you have Computer 2 or Computer 1, Beam Weapons 1; you'll be paid the same. This is a good, and probably necessary, equalizing factor, to keep players from gaming the system exactly as you suggest. |
June 7, 2016 - 12:22pm | I f a company was hiring a tech guy then perhaps all skills in tech PSA would figure into the wage or if their hiring an enforcer then all military PSA but some jobs like a bland security gig? I dont see them paying top dollar. And while we're at it the NPC wage table does have some interesting consequences: hiring a 2nd level psych-social vs any of the weapons skills at same level: 1 psych vs 3 projectile sharp shooters. Personally I think a lot of players might opt for being paid at the NPC rate especially for the more technical professions. To that I would suggest a house rule: pay is best rate on NPC table with a bump of 10 Cr/skill level for all skills that apply to the job. For example PC hired as a doctor who has Medic 2, Psych 1, & Environmental 1 would be paid 80 Cr as a medic with +10cr for the level of psych but nothing for environmental since he's simply there as a doctor. If he had been hired as the team scientist then the environmental would apply. That's about how I'd do it, more or less. Caveat: such a character might be desirable (and get paid for) all three skills in the event they are hired as "backup" for another character (PC or NPC) in the first place. The doctor might be primarily there as Medic, but when he's not fixing torn up team members, he's expected to help out the designated Environmentalist. It depends on how the deal is struck (and a smart players will try to put themselves in such positions when they can). |
June 7, 2016 - 12:31pm | Well-financed expeditions needing to fill a slot for a "shooter" and one for a "Doc", for example, would probably hire a Military Specialist of some sort for the one, and a Bio-Social for the other.
But adventures never call for this. No adventure I'm aware of calls for hiring player characters for specific positions on a team. Every published and fan adventure I know of just calls for a team of X number of characters, usually with a "good mix" of skills, sometimes recommending at least one character has a certain skill at level Y. The game tacitly assumes a mix of skills spread around the party, and so the general guidelines call for "typical" pay to reflect the total skill levels of each character rather than pay by position. They pay guidelines aren't meant to reflect realistic remuneration and economics; they simply reward the players in a fair and useful manner. |
June 7, 2016 - 12:34pm | The pay guidelines don't lead to swiss-army-knife characters either. It doesn't matter whether you have Computer 2 or Computer 1, Beam Weapons 1; you'll be paid the same. This is a good, and probably necessary, equalizing factor, to keep players from gaming the system exactly as you suggest. Actually, that's wrong. Alpha Dawn simply says "If an NPC has several Skills, his wage is determined by finding the skill that pays the most and adding 10CR/day for each additional level of skill." (AD Expanded pp.60) The example given is a L3 Roboticist/L2 Sharpshooter/ L1 Medic). The calculation given comes to 110 Cr/day and breaks down as follows: Roboticist 3 (highest level skill) = Base pay of 80 Cr/day. Sharpshooter 2 (additional skill) = + 20 Cr/day (10 Cr x 2 skill levels) Medic 1 (additional skill) = +10 Cr/day (10 Cr x 1 skill level) Total = 110 Cr/day. |
June 7, 2016 - 12:39pm | Well-financed expeditions needing to fill a slot for a "shooter" and one for a "Doc", for example, would probably hire a Military Specialist of some sort for the one, and a Bio-Social for the other.
But adventures never call for this. No adventure I'm aware of calls for hiring player characters for specific positions on a team. Every published and fan adventure I know of just calls for a team of X number of characters, usually with a "good mix" of skills, sometimes recommending at least one character has a certain skill at level Y. The game tacitly assumes a mix of skills spread around the party, and so the general guidelines call for "typical" pay to reflect the total skill levels of each character rather than pay by position. They pay guidelines aren't meant to reflect realistic remuneration and economics; they simply reward the players in a fair and useful manner. That "good mix of skills" stems directly from the idea that the team needs a balanced mix of skills, and would be planned by the patron accordingly. A government planning a survey team, for example, is not going to send off a party that doesn't have at least one Environmentalist or at least someone with Environmentalist as a secondary skill. Doing otherwise would be stupid, because the team would not have an essential ability. |
June 7, 2016 - 1:38pm | Actually, that's wrong. Alpha Dawn simply says "If an NPC has several Skills, his wage is determined by finding the skill that pays the most and adding 10CR/day for each additional level of skill." (AD Expanded pp.60)
You're looking at NPC wages. I'm talking about player character pay per mission. PCs don't get paid as expert hirelings. "One way to determine how much to pay is to pay 10 credits per level of skill per day plus 10 to 100 credits per day depending on the danger. You probably should pay no less than 20 Cr/day and no more than 500 Cr/day." Alpha Dawn Expanded Game Rules, p. 55. A player character Roboticist 3/Sharpshooter 2/Medic 1 going on a dangerous adventure, rather than being hired to take orders and just do his job like an NPC, gets paid 30 Cr/day (Robotics 3) + 20 Cr/day (Projectile Weapons 2) + 10 Cr/day (Medical 1) = base pay of 60 Cr/day, plus 10–100 Cr for danger, so anywhere between 70–160 Cr/day. NPCs don't get extra pay for danger, because any danger encountered is simply part of their jobs and already factored into the NPC Wages table. |
June 7, 2016 - 1:57pm | A government planning a survey team, for example, is not going to send off a party that doesn't have at least one Environmentalist or at least someone with Environmentalist as a secondary skill. Doing otherwise would be stupid, because the team would not have an essential ability.
Yes, yes, yes, but what is the rest of team for, and how much are they paid? The Volturnus expedition sends four to eight characters, each with two level 1 skills, including at least one vrusk, one environmentalist, and one medic. Why are the other characters there? Some might be military specialists, but why send the human with Robotics and Computers? The yazirian, dralasite, or even vrusk with Robotics and Technician? Are these people going to be paid more than the military specialists, as per the NPC Wages table? The answer is that Truane's Star sends an adventuring team to Volturnus, because they don't know what happened to the missing expedition, so they don't know what skills will be needed. Environmental and Medical, obviously. But anything else? Who knows? And they'll all be paid equally, because they all participate equally in the expedition, because they're all equally capable in their own domains. By the guideline on page 55, the player characters on Volturnus would only be promised 20 Cr/day each base pay, plus some unknown bonus for danger pay, which will obviously go way, way up once they get back to headquarters after the adventure. |
June 7, 2016 - 5:16pm | Bottom line the rules are guidelines and each referee will do as they please. Modules assume a mix of skills because they don't want to mandate a doctor, a driver, 2 shooters and a technician lest you get a player committed to something odd. The reality is most experience players understand the need for a mix and most will look at a party and realizing that there is already a demolitions expert and a robotics expert will steak out a different role. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 7, 2016 - 5:21pm | Another thing worth trying is stock options, completed mission or bonuses for well completed missions can be stock options for PCs in addition to wages. Cobble up a dice roll to adjust price of stocks for the time the PC's check the price or ask to sell. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 June 7, 2016 - 7:00pm | The trick for the referee is to make sure that they don't just get rich too quickly, as it tends to make things less interesting IMHO.
In Dramune Run the players inherit a freight hauler. If they keep it then they no longer have to pay cost of living and keep ALL of their income since everything they need is on the ship. Granted this opens a lot of doors, as they need to pay upkeep for the ship, berthing fees, and make enough profit on hauls to offset the cost of hauling their loads from system A to sytem B. Like the KH rules say, it's a good profession for players that like to crunch numbers on their calculators. ;) |
June 7, 2016 - 8:40pm | Actually, that's wrong. Alpha Dawn simply says "If an NPC has several Skills, his wage is determined by finding the skill that pays the most and adding 10CR/day for each additional level of skill." (AD Expanded pp.60)
You're looking at NPC wages. I'm talking about player character pay per mission. PCs don't get paid as expert hirelings. "One way to determine how much to pay is to pay 10 credits per level of skill per day plus 10 to 100 credits per day depending on the danger. You probably should pay no less than 20 Cr/day and no more than 500 Cr/day." Alpha Dawn Expanded Game Rules, p. 55. A player character Roboticist 3/Sharpshooter 2/Medic 1 going on a dangerous adventure, rather than being hired to take orders and just do his job like an NPC, gets paid 30 Cr/day (Robotics 3) + 20 Cr/day (Projectile Weapons 2) + 10 Cr/day (Medical 1) = base pay of 60 Cr/day, plus 10–100 Cr for danger, so anywhere between 70–160 Cr/day. NPCs don't get extra pay for danger, because any danger encountered is simply part of their jobs and already factored into the NPC Wages table. There is no difference between your calculation and mine. Both have 10 Cr per skill level calculation, therefore both encourage "swiss army knife" skill selections. The difference is in base rate and it's just as easy to use the tables as it is to have to ponder relative pay levels. |
June 7, 2016 - 8:48pm | A government planning a survey team, for example, is not going to send off a party that doesn't have at least one Environmentalist or at least someone with Environmentalist as a secondary skill. Doing otherwise would be stupid, because the team would not have an essential ability.
Yes, yes, yes, but what is the rest of team for, and how much are they paid? The Volturnus expedition sends four to eight characters, each with two level 1 skills, including at least one vrusk, one environmentalist, and one medic. Why are the other characters there? Some might be military specialists, but why send the human with Robotics and Computers? The yazirian, dralasite, or even vrusk with Robotics and Technician? Are these people going to be paid more than the military specialists, as per the NPC Wages table? They send them because their skills may be called on. Roboticists to work with robots, techs to fix machines, etc. And yes, they do get paid more than the "muscle" characters. Their skills are more valuable. Remember the mission brief is not only to attempt to discern the fate of the first team, but also, if need be, to replace the first team and continue the survey per the Player's Background Report. The answer is that Truane's Star sends an adventuring team to Volturnus, because they don't know what happened to the missing expedition, so they don't know what skills will be needed. Environmental and Medical, obviously. But anything else? Who knows? And they'll all be paid equally, because they all participate equally in the expedition, because they're all equally capable in their own domains. By the guideline on page 55, the player characters on Volturnus would only be promised 20 Cr/day each base pay, plus some unknown bonus for danger pay, which will obviously go way, way up once they get back to headquarters after the adventure.
|
June 7, 2016 - 8:50pm | Another thing worth trying is stock options, completed mission or bonuses for well completed missions can be stock options for PCs in addition to wages. Cobble up a dice roll to adjust price of stocks for the time the PC's check the price or ask to sell. Which they are going to do almost immediately. You can't buy gear or recharge your powerpacks with stock options. |
June 8, 2016 - 6:29am | There is no difference between your calculation and mine. Both have 10 Cr per skill level calculation, therefore both encourage "swiss army knife" skill selections.
The NPC Wages table has 10 Cr per skill level beyond the base pay for the highest skill with no pay for danger; pay for player characters has 10 Cr per skill level for every skill, plus danger pay. That's quite a difference. NPC Roboticist 3/Sharpshooter 2/Medic 1 Roboticist 3 = 80 Cr Sharpshooter 2 = 20 Cr Medic 1 = 10 Cr Total = 110 Cr PC Roboticist 3/Sharpshooter 2/Medic 1 Roboticist 3 = 30 Cr Sharpshooter 2 = 20 Cr Medic 1 = 10 Cr Danger Pay = 10–100 Cr Total = 70–160 Cr |
June 8, 2016 - 10:45am | 10cr/day per level: a whole new incentive to drive one skill to level 5 or 6 besides being a one hit wonder with the laser set to max.
Not at all. Having Computer 1, Robotics 1, Technician 1, Environmental 1, Medical 1, Psycho-Social 1 would get you the same pay as having Beam Weapons 6. This statement, btw, is wrong. The highest pay is for P-S 1 (80 Cr/day). Five other skills at L1 add another 50 Cr/day for a total of 130 Cr/day. BS 6 and no other skills gets only 90 Cr/day. |
