 May 18, 2016 - 5:00pm | Idea here is to post all history/timeline material and its source here and when it appears we have all that's available we'll compile it into a time line though I suspect that it will be tough to make it a strick time line and might have to fudge it a little. EDIT: my plan here is to comb all Canon matetial, except Zebs, and list page and source locations here for all society and history information. I'll then photocopy/ print each page. Next will be review, collation, and justification of all data. Then I'll post a doc in the documents section and give peeps a chance to criticize or critique it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 May 24, 2016 - 8:47am | Not sure if this module should be included but Trouble with Janus has: Recon-Development and Exploration Council which was part of a centralized bureaucracy, something called the Laterial Federation which replaced the Centralization, the Free Trade Federation seems to have replaced the Laterial Federation. Also Federation Board of Inquiry, Multi-Cap, Federation Covenant rules mentioned... Though Janus is a bit far flung it does give some ideas that are not Zeb that is for sure. I've tried to research a bit about Robert Jennings who wrote the "Trouble on Janus" module for the Massconfusion 1984 conference. He seems to still be alive and kicking with a newsletter: http://efanzines.com/Fadeaway/Fadeway-42.pdf And here: http://efanzines.com/Fadeaway/Fadeway-48.pdf I think with the second e-magazine you'll recognize some familiar cover art -- the Trouble on Janus cover! But I am unsure of his background as an authoritative source on Star Frontiers, but he could be a sci fi fan like the rest of us. The Janus adventure does provide some alternative history, though it is a bit jumbled in my estimation. For example, here is some of the text from that module: "Janus was discovered over a century and a half ago by exploration ships of the old Recon-Development and Exploration Council. It was briefly catalogued, and forgotten along with a thousand other worlds ‘explored’ by the last bloated wave of centralized bureaucracy. “After the fall of Centralization and the development of the Laterial Federation, planetary development was opened officially. Due to its location off of the mainstream of galactic travel, Janus and most other Sol-Type worlds along the spiral were virtually ignored during the boom and bust periods of exploration and exploitation that followed the creation of the Free Trade Federation..." OK. What is the "fall of Centralization"? The Laterial Federation? The Free Trade Federation? We could just junk these concepts and write them off as the musings of yet another RPG fan/gaming convention host, but they could be salvaged. All of Jenning's musings -- and the original Trouble on Janus module -- come from a Human-centric view of the Frontier. So, all of this could be said to be part of the Human timeline. The Recon-Development and Exploration Council is a pre-Frontier organization, probably from the Human homeworld whether it is Earth, Terra or some parallel Earth closer to the center of a unnamed spiral galaxy... (A Long Time Ago, in a galaxy far, far away...) It sent scouts into the Frontier before colonization occurred, did a survey of a number of systems and probably charted star routes, and then the explorers went their merry way. We get that the Human homeworld had a big bureaucracy -- i.e. centralization. So the homeworld probably tried to control all of its colony worlds with a tight fist, appointing colonial governors, etc., with all of the potential graft, govermental fiefdoms and incompetence that you can imagine. Centralization is overthrown by the Laterial Federation and then comes the Free Trade Federation. The Laterial Federation could be whatever Human agency that Earth/the Human Homeworld designated to colonize the Frontier... or maybe the name is a stand-in for the Pan-Galactic Corporation... (It seems that Jennings, for whatever reason, altered the names of standard Star Frontiers organizations. For example, the Sathar became the "Slathar," which are walking snakes with arms and legs. Dralasites are called "Draisites," etc. Maybe he didn't have TSR's permission to use the proper SF names?) ... The Free Trade Federation is an alternative name for the United Planetary Federation.... Or we could reinterpret these names for our own purposes. The Laterial Federation is the Human organization that led the initial colonization effort of the Frontier, but it gets overthrown/its power wanes. Probably because the Human colonies are eventually cut off from the homeworld and the colonists no longer want the homeworld's masters staying in control. I imagined the Free Trade Federation to be a quasi-governmental agency, probably created by the Humans, as a way to negotiate treaties between their colonies and the Vrusk, Dralasites and Yazarians. The FTF would be a precursor to the UPF, but without a space fleet or police powers. It would be based on Prenglar, the center of the Frontier, and probably backed and supported by the Pan-Galactic Corporation. The FTF then gives the Core Four races a framework to cooperated during the first and second common musters and to build the UPF afterward. If the FTF is based on Prenglar, it gives yet another reason why the Sathar would strike there during the last desparate battle against Admiral Vincent Morgaine's forces. The worms would want to cut the Frontier in two and knock out the organizations that bind the Core Four together -- the PGC and the FTF. Joe Cabadas |
May 24, 2016 - 8:56am | I like the Groth/Fromeltar as source for vrusk, it works well from the stand point of a vrusk mining company discovering the dralasites. Yazirian fleeing a dying world has had a lot of fan support over the years and it would be easier IMO to keep that. Big issue is what to do with humanity? This is where they evolved or not? If yes then the only suitable planet is Minotaur (I'm good with that but I think we should also just give Minotaur Earth's ecology. If no then the question still remains of where is the home world and why no interaction? Or in other words , "what is the story of humans arriving in the Frontier?" +1 Terl obars comments on Frontier/New Frontier and origin of name.
Ultimately we can certainly produce and publish a cannon time line that's vague on issues of home worlds. Accompanying it cam be a 1 page essay on our best solutions to this issue of home world. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 May 24, 2016 - 12:22pm | I think a timeline/sequence of events as close as we can figure out with then the article of suggestions/solutions for the tricky parts like homeworlds might be best. This way folks have the known info as originally presented by TSR in an overall context and some suggestions on problem areas. Janus has some fun usuable stuff and treating it as a PF module is probably the best approach, I like the idea of FTF being what existed before UPF, which is what I was goin to do with it. Having the other agencies be Human makes sense as well. I wondered about the mispellings too, I thought they are type-o's on a quickly typed up adventure as we are talking pre-computers, pre-spell check. However we could have a little fun with the names... Slather Clan-L Sathar, Sathar Y-clan would be Syathar, X-clan would be Sxathar, Clan-L is obviously a sneaky high science clan. Draisites might be a specific branch of Dralisites. Janus is one of the Frontiers forgotten worlds. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
May 26, 2016 - 6:03am | I like the idea of Janus as one of the world's the sathar destroyed That said if I ran the Janus adventure I would craft a love interest NPC for the character of the player I thought would roll with it in game. Then after the adventure word would come that Janus had been attacked. Rescue Mission: Janus The love interest will not be found though dice rolling and skill checks will happen in the return. The love interest will turn up later in the campaign: PC sees her and she pretends to not know him. Cue dramatic music, get ready for the cliche: she's a sathar agent. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 May 26, 2016 - 8:03am | I suggest we publish a base timeline with just the facts from the rules and modules published by TSR. I would leave out Janus as it is a very early fan creation making it pseudo-cannon. After the base timeline then we work in the Dragon articles. Then we attempt to tackle Zeb's. Concerning the home worlds, these are never mentioned so anything we add to one of these timelines becomes fan creation. I would love to have the above separate timelines as seperate support source material for making timelines that explain where the home worlds are. As for home world histories we have created in these forums, I really like the Yazirian Star Exodus. After that I agonize about how to keep autonomy from home world governments and the attachment to the name Frontier. -iggy |
May 26, 2016 - 4:58pm | Concerning the home worlds, these are never mentioned so anything we add to one of these timelines becomes fan creation. I would love to have the above separate timelines as seperate support source material for making timelines that explain where the home worlds are. As for home world histories we have created in these forums, I really like the Yazirian Star Exodus. After that I agonize about how to keep autonomy from home world governments and the attachment to the name Frontier. Well, the "Zeb" Cook interview in Star Frontiersman gives a clue that the homeworlds are far off. That way the "Earth defense force" can't come flying in to save the day. Creating a timeline based on the information in Alpha Dawn and modules is highly worthy. It can be a base to build off of. Then incorporate the Zebulon's Guide info that makes sense. After that, I don't have a problem with incorpating fan-created materials if it can be done consistently. For example, I had asked Tch a question about what the Yazarian home planet was supposed to be called. Some fan-created material say it's Waloo in the Pavor system. Others say it's Yazaria... Maybe it's alternative names for the same world. Much like we could say Earth or Terra or Gaia or the third rock from the sun. Joe Cabadas |
May 27, 2016 - 4:54am | Levels of Canonicity: Primary: AD, HK, modules (2001 &2010 not included) Think of this level as the Gospels Secondary: optional material- Dragon and etc magazine articles, Janus as a competition module can be included or excluded here as per your bias. Think of these as the epistles Disputed sources or Apocrypha: Zebs and or 2001 & 2010 modules I think we should produce a strict gospel version as a bare minimum. A gospel + the epistles would be nice and recognize that we may need to make some judgement calls and fudge a few things to make it all work. Then we can get crazy and debate adding some Zebs material and fan material I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 31, 2016 - 6:39pm | Ok, I've had a chance to sink my teeth into the history data. We're going to need large blocks of time necessitated by statements in various modules: WoWL, Dramune, Dark Side and to a lesser extent Crash on V. This is good as it alleviates some key problems with Zebs. It allows for some expansion and population growth. There is at least one statement about interstellar travel happening for 200 years prior to game (Dark Side). #2 year 61 FY works just fine as an ankle point, I forget and don't have Zebs handy but what does it say about the age of Adventure? 50ish to 60ish? It maybe that Eastman was aware of when the modules should fit in the time line and simply put an entry "Age of Adventure" and since most of his time line is focused on later details he relegating the original modules to and earlier time intending the new modules to focus on corporate ICEWARS, the Mechanon revolt and migration, and 2nd Sathar war. So why not ground the modules loosely at around 61FY? The pivot point in the time line PF vs FY is very explicitly 1st Sathar war and founding of the UPF. Its not explicit in the non Zebs material but I think it's implied. This actually does good things for the setting with modules happening @ 61FY. AD states the sathar destroyed several outposts and small colonies during the out break of war. 61 years after the fact is still within living memory and people will be talking about lost treasure to be found on planet X or the UPF might just be getting around to looking into what happened on some of these outposts. Home worlds: for a clean cannon setting I thing we need to honor the home worlds are off the map and too far away for communication. That said I have a few suggestions: vrust mining ship discovers dralasites: I think the best thing to do with this is the vrusk found the dralasites on Groth (Fromeltar) living a very pastor existence. They excitedly share tech with the Drals who get a leg up and become a space faring species. It doesn't really give the philosophy living Drals a power base nor does it do violence to the system . Vrusk came from North by Northeast of map perhaps 25-30 LY away? Yazirians were discovered by H,V, & D (Zebs says they entered the Frontier and the Zebs comment influenced the development of the fan creation: the Star Exodus. At this point lots of fan material has been built upon that so I'd like to keep the star Exodus and rogue brown dwarf destroying Yazira and the Yazirians coming from a star in the great Expanse.. We can down play the fan details but leave the door open for fans to keep right on chugging with the yazirian material. Humans for simplicity their home world is not earth and its not close by. A colony expedition arrived 500-600 years ago and seeded humans on Minotaur and Clarion. 300-400 years later some people left Clarion (pilgrims) to found Triskar (dark side setting). Records of human home world are corrupted after all this time and no one knows (it's a mystery for the players). I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 1, 2016 - 7:15am | KH's endorses the surprise attack on Truane's Star and the ravishing of Pale and new pale as the start of the 1st Sathar War. However, the AD basic game book states, "They attacked and destroyed lonely systems and outposts on the edges of explored space, moving inward." My solution to this is yes they did destroy outposts and lonely colonies but no one escaped those events to bring word. Truane's Star was a different kettle of fish. And appeared to be the first colony attacked by reason of being the first reported in the holo vid news. In short order it was discovered that these other outposts were destroyed as people tried to contact them with warnings. Also it should be noted that while KHs doesn't use the name Common Muster it certainly seems to imply it. As far as I can tell Eastman invented the names 1st & 2nd Common Muster for the Zebs timeline. Is it a violation of the "non Zebs" rule to use the names for events that are clearly in the Canon timeline? Hatzk Naar is not AD canon but a Zebs embellishment of the events centered on the first common Muster. I'm for keeping it in the canon plus timeline but I guess not for the Canon clean timeline. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 1, 2016 - 7:58am | KH's endorses the surprise attack on Truane's Star and the ravishing of Pale and new pale as the start of the 1st Sathar War. However, the AD basic game book states, "They attacked and destroyed lonely systems and outposts on the edges of explored space, moving inward." My solution to this is yes they did destroy outposts and lonely colonies but no one escaped those events to bring word. Truane's Star was a different kettle of fish. And appeared to be the first colony attacked by reason of being the first reported in the holo vid news. In short order it was discovered that these other outposts were destroyed as people tried to contact them with warnings. That makes very good sense. Also it should be noted that while KHs doesn't use the name Common Muster it certainly seems to imply it. As far as I can tell Eastman invented the names 1st & 2nd Common Muster for the Zebs timeline. Is it a violation of the "non Zebs" rule to use the names for events that are clearly in the Canon timeline? Hatzk Naar is not AD canon but a Zebs embellishment of the events centered on the first common Muster. I'm for keeping it in the canon plus timeline but I guess not for the Canon clean timeline. I suppose it depends on how "hard and fast" that you want to play with the non-Zebs timeline rule. As I mentioned earlier, I am very, very pleased with the efforts to create this timeline effort... though I'm not sure I've contrbuted anything to it precisely... but I am not opposed to using some of the events and people that Eastman created -- where they make sense. For example, giving a names to the First and Second Common Musters or a name for the pirate leader, Hatzk Naar. It adds details that weren't there... That being said, then one has to ditch certain Zebs events or at least rearrange them. For example, if the Volturnus modules are going to be set in the 50s or 60s, then contact with the Rim Coalition seems highly unlikely until after the events of those adventures take place. So, if one keeps the Blue Plague, there's no Capellan Free Merchants coming in to help "save the day." If the Sundown on Starmist module is played later, after the Crash on Volturnus, et al, then how does the Frontier know where the disease originated from? I suppose that can be learned later. Personally I rather resented how the Zebs timeline presented the whole Blue Plague and made Starmist the source because I thought it would destroy the integrity of that module and made it highly unlikely that a surviving character from Volturnus could be part of that adventure. Also, the Sathar spy training base seemed to be rather advanced for something plopped into circa 10FY -- if the adventure was going to be set in an earlier time period than the 50s or 60s. (Not to mention my hatred of the five plague systems; I don't mind that there are quarantined systems, but not because of one silly plague). PS, I think the Vrusk homeworld ought to be a lot farther away from the Frontier than 30 light years, but that's my thought. After you have the "set in stone" non-Zebs timeline, then you can salvage some Zebs events, people, and organizations. Oh, one other thing that needs to be salvaged one way or another. The Bugs in the System module. If I recall, since I don't have it in front of me at the moment, the characters get involved because: " It begins with the characters as passengers on a small freighter that is passing through the Belnafaer system en route to its final destination. The ship will experience a breakdown, and stop off at Snobol to make repairs." OK, that's great but the Belnafaer on the Zeb's map is off in the middle of nowhere and doesn't seem to be on a route where random freighters are going to pass through... unless there's star routes leading off from it that the referee would have to create. Joe Cabadas |
June 1, 2016 - 10:12am | I think we'll have to have some "loose" dates for the modules and simply place them in "the age of Adventure". The Zebs AoA is 125pf to 20pf which doesn't sync but oh well. But let's call it 58FY to 70 FY. Re Bugs in system issue of the jump route: The ESTABLISHED travel routes are marked on the Frontier map. These are the only explored routes that have been mapped and CERTIFIED as safe for starships to use. First thing, who is certifying routes as safe for travel? Insurance underwriters? The corporations themselves? I would contend the marked routes are the routes that are mapped and certified as safe for freighters and Starliners. Spacefleet doesn't stick to safe routes, their mission. Is to "stand into danger" and pirates, mercenaries explorers as well. Without a doubt numerous other routs exist that have not been certified including those to the outpost destroyed by the Sathar in their wind up for Gruane's Star. The Bugs in the System route is simply a newly certified route recently established. It's in Zebs because it's from prior canon material. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 1, 2016 - 1:06pm | The Clean Canon timeline is going to be a little dirty. For example I had no date for founding of Star Law which logically had to be after the founding of UPF and in response to sathar sabotage and subterfuge campaigns. So I just used the Zebs date. Certain modules are a wealth of data but still you have to infer some data. Like the Leotus dynasty having existed for 400 years and thus logically the colonization of Clarion must pre date that. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 1, 2016 - 1:54pm | The Clean Canon timeline is going to be a little dirty. For example I had no date for founding of Star Law which logically had to be after the founding of UPF and in response to sathar sabotage and subterfuge campaigns. So I just used the Zebs date. Certain modules are a wealth of data but still you have to infer some data. Like the Leotus dynasty having existed for 400 years and thus logically the colonization of Clarion must pre date that. Yes, it will be "clean and dirty." Joe Cabadas |
June 25, 2016 - 5:46pm | Hey, I just realized something. Did you include Laco's War in the non-Zebs timeline? That is definitely a major pre-Zebs canon event that is mentioned in articles like "Tanks a Lot" from Dragon magazine. We can't forget that! Joe Cabadas |
June 25, 2016 - 5:48pm | Never mind. I should have checked your document section first. It's there. Joe Cabadas |
August 17, 2021 - 11:23am | I'm noticing some omissions- when the heliopes were abandoned on Starmist and the day of death or doom whatever the eorna name for the day the Sathar ravaged their planet was. Probably need to take snother look at Dramune run to make sure it's all in the timeline I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
