 January 30, 2016 - 9:50am | I was working on a new equipment submission: yazirian disk grenade bandolier, but then I thought I should be thorough and update yazirian disk grenades to include more than the fragmentation grenade covered in SFman 5. In the process I figured it wouldn't hurt to convert Zebs Guide grenades to AD rules (Zebs is a little spotty about including an ability save for 1/2 damage or 1/2 effect). So this leads to creation of a definitive article covering grenades. The way I see it there are a few issues to tackle: 1. Damage conversion from Zebs to AD. Not sure if this has been effective discussed elsewhere but we should establish a standard since there are a handful of new grenades in Zebs that do cause damage. 2. Any issues in the grenade use rules that need to be ironed out? 3. Individual grenades description updates- appropriate ability saves, questions concern something not covered etc. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 30, 2016 - 10:04am | Issue 1 looking at the one crossover point between the two equipment list: frag grenades- 8d10 for AD and Max damage of 64 for Zebs. Obviously there is a disconnect in that Max damage for AD is 80 and the Zebs max damage is only 80% of the AD rule. In practice no one is likely to naturally roll max damage in AD so 64 pts in Zebs feels about right. If we used this as the conversion rule the acid grenade would do 2d10, incendiaries would be 4d10 +1d10 X 3 turns and so on. Yea, Nay, or other? Edit: exception slick grenade- characters moving faster than 1/4 movement automatically fall and take 3 pts of damage. To me this 3 points seems high and aught to be just 1 pt of damage. There should also be a DEX save against falling. And would not the slick foam impact wrestling and hanging onto items? Until it breaks down in 10 turns or is washed off with water? Also item description says its even more effective against robots and vehicles- with automatic fall and 3pts of damage for characters what does more effective vs robots and vehicles- look like? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 30, 2016 - 10:19am | My gut instinct on converting std grenades to yazirian grenades is this: difference in cost between std frag and disk frag is 5cr so all grenades on AD list are treated as common types and converting an AD grenade to a disk grenade is +5cr. Dummy/ practice grenades mentioned in SFman 5 are 5cr. The practice of adding a clan symbol to a disk grenade so that it can be left as a calling card in clan politics is +1cr to the grenade. Thus a dummy grenade with a clan symbol would be 6cr. Some if not most of the new grenades in Zebs are perhaps more exotic and will have a more limited production run with dye and flash grenades being the exceptions. Thus disk versions should be more expensive. I'd be good with either +10cr/grenade or +50%/ grenade cost. Flash and dye grenades would be simply +5cr/grenade Solid foam and sonic grenades I'd rule as not coming in disk varieties. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 30, 2016 - 10:26am | Foam grenade mitigation: acid grenade effect is 1/2 with thin coating of slagel however in real world acid is easily neutralized by diluting it with water. So I'd allow a character to drench themselves with the 4L water pack to effectively wash the acid away or provide a 1/2 damage effect. This should also work with the irritant grenade and to wash off the foam of the solid grenade before it solidifies (1 min). Solid grenade is odd in that it takes 10 turns to solidify and has no counter like the tangler. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 25, 2019 - 6:06pm | Jedion: "So this leads to creation of a definitive article covering grenades." I am trying to take some of my stuff and actually come up with such an article... part of a series of articles that I was thinking of calling "Looking at things that go BOOM!" I don't see why the Zebs foam grenades can't be made into a Yazarian disc grenade. Jedion: "Solid grenade is odd in that it takes 10 turns to solidify and has no counter like the tangler." Yes, there should be something to dissolve this... maybe it could be succeptible to sonics? Joe Cabadas |
February 27, 2019 - 2:33pm | I'm trying to come up with some descriptions and stats for archaic grenades. Here's some initial ideas: Archaic Grenades Although the Star Frontiers rules gave descriptions for archaic weapons such as bows and arrows, swords, and muskets. Archaic grenades were left out. So, to fill out this hole in rules, below are some archaic grenades. Firepots. An archaic type of grenade that uses an ovid or similar hand-sized terra-cotta pot. The exterior is often etched to improve the grip for the thrower. Filled with gunpowder, the container’s neck is covered in canvas or parchment. The thrower would light a match cord to ensure detonation. While it takes only seconds to toss, assume the thrower may need four turns to prepare and light the device. The primitive fuse is variable so it may not go off the same turn it lands. On a roll of 1-5, it explodes the same turn, on a roll of 6-7, it explodes the following turn, on a roll of 8-0 it explodes in 2-4 turns. Opponents may be able to pick them up and throw them aside or back at an attacker if they make a successful Reaction Speed check. An automatic miss means the firepot exploded prematurely, injuring the thrower. Hand Bombs. Similar to the firepot, this incorporates a mixture of musket shot and or glass to improve the deadliness of early hand grenades. Assume it takes three turns to prepare and light a hand bomb, so the rate of fire is once every three turns. On a roll of 1-5, it explodes the same turn, on a roll of 6-7, it explodes the following turn, on a roll of 8-0 it explodes in 2-4 turns. Opponents may be able to pick them up and throw them aside or back at an attacker if they make a successful Reaction Speed check. An automatic miss means the firepot exploded prematurely, injuring the thrower. Spike Grenade. Embedded with as many as 90 metal spikes, it is launched by a crossbow and can stick to anything wooden (with a successful hit on such a surface). This bomb was used to blow up ancient gates and fortifications. “PotatoMasher” Grenade. An early grenade design, it has a hollow wooden handle attached to a metal cylinder. Weighing about 750 grams, it uses a friction igniter that lights a timed fuse – which is 4.5 seconds. It cannot be disarmed once activated. While the average distance that it can be thrown is 27-37 meters, it rolls unpredictably when it lands… More stats to come. Joe Cabadas |
February 27, 2019 - 10:58pm | I would recommend just round the throw distance for the potato masher to a nice round number like 25 or 30 meters. I didn't check but what is the max throw distance on a standard grenade, since the potato masher has an attached lever/ stick a thrower would have more leverage and thus greater distance over throw. Looking long term here but I have a military skills revisited article which is an over haul of military skills. that and a comprehensive grenade article might be the nucleus of a theme for issue 26. Not sure what to call that theme but maybe a something martial in latin could be the theme. The spike munition will require cross bow stats for SF as they dont currently exist. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 27, 2019 - 11:10pm | So a definitive article Tables and short descriptions of AD grenades with Zebs conversions Disc grenades and bandolier from FE issue ? Archaic Grenades? do we like this name? I think the molotov cocktail needs to be included in that list- hey why not right flaming oil is right out of D&D plastic type explosives from SF and detonators Joe Cabadas what else do you have? Limpet mines? I remember limpet mines being in Car Wars. or limpet pad to turn all grenades into a limpet mine. any other sci fi grenade type device? we should address I'm loathe to include the predators vambrace personal nuke device. its just too much IMO do we need to review the throwing rules on TD-19 ? I remember AD covering that. Anything I've missed? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 28, 2019 - 11:42am | So a definitive article Tables and short descriptions of AD grenades with Zebs conversions Yes. Disc grenades and bandolier from FE issue ? You bet. Archaic Grenades? do we like this name? Well, the game already includes "archaic weapons" as a listing, so I think archaic grenades work... or hand bombs. I think the molotov cocktail needs to be included in that list- hey why not right flaming oil is right out of D&D See below. plastic type explosives from SF and detonators Yes, it's a part of the article I'm working on. Joe Cabadas what else do you have? If you've ever reviewed the documents I once put up about trying to combine all the various Star Frontiers combat rules together, I'm mining that for story information. A story on grenades is part one. Part two would be a conversion of Zebulon's Guide missiles to the Alpha Dawn combat system, along with a look at A.D. rockets plus the vehicle rockets and guided missiles from the "Tanks a lot!" story. Part three and four: looks at mines and bombs (again from "Tanks a lot!"). With a dropped ordinance skill. So a limpet mine can go in the mine story. Part five: Demolitions/Explosives... why not include TNT and nitroglycerin? Part six: maybe, just maybe a story on the A-bomb. any other sci fi grenade type device? we should address The grenade story would include some of the weapons developed in the forums here. There's the discussion called "Nasty, nasty weapons" http://www.starfrontiers.us/node/4524 that has some interesting grenades. Oh, and a hand-held minigrenade gun instead of just the helmet-mounted one. The artillery story would address rail guns... not exactly sci fi. I'm loathe to include the predators vambrace personal nuke device. its just too much IMO do we need to review the throwing rules on TD-19 ? I remember AD covering that. Already included! Anything I've missed? I certainly hope not! Joe Cabadas |
February 28, 2019 - 11:45am | Some updated archaic grenade descriptions. I'm still working on ranges, prices, weights, etc. Firepots. An archaic type of grenade that uses an oval or similar hand-sized terra-cotta pot. The exterior is often etched to improve the grip for the thrower. Filled with gunpowder, the container’s neck is covered in canvas or parchment. The thrower would light a match cord to ensure detonation. While it takes only seconds to toss, assume the thrower needs a total four turns to prepare and light the device. Additionally, the thrower has a -10 percent chance to hit. The primitive fuse is variable so it may not go off the same turn it lands. On a roll of 1-5, it explodes the same turn, on a roll of 6-7, itexplodes the following turn, on a roll of 8-0 it explodes in 2-4 turns. Opponents may be able to pick them up and throw them aside or back at an attacker if they make a successful Reaction Speed check. An automatic miss means the firepot exploded prematurely, injuring the thrower. Hand Bombs. Similar to thefirepot, this incorporates a mixture of musket shot and or glass to improve the deadliness of early hand grenades. It takes a total three turns to prepare and light a hand bomb, so the rate of fire is once every three turns. The throwner has a -10 percent chance to hit. On a roll of 1-5, it explodes the same turn, on a roll of 6-7, itexplodes the following turn, on a roll of 8-0 it explodes in 2-4 turns. Opponents may be able to pick them up and throw them aside or back at an attacker if they make a successful Reaction Speed check. An automatic miss means the hand bomb exploded prematurely, injuring thethrower. Spike Grenade. Embedded with as many as 90 metal spikes, it is launched by a specialized crossbow and can stick to anything wooden (with a successful hit on such a surface). This bomb was used to blow up ancient gates and fortifications. Spike Grenade Crossbow. A specialized crossbow, it is designed to hurl spike grenades or similar sized objects. Bulky, it can only be used by a character with a Strength score of more than 50 and must be supported to fire – either by resting it on a wall, the back of a character, etc. – otherwise the crossbowman has a -15 percent modifier to hit. This crossbow can only fire one grenade every five turns (30 seconds). Stick Grenade. Also known as a “potato masher” or stielhandgranaten, this is an early fragmentation grenade design. (Though some models were made to be smoke or poison gas grenades). Weighing about 750 grams, it has a hollow wooden handle that is attached to a metal cylinder -- where the explosive is. The grenade is activated by a friction igniter that lights a 4.5-second fuse. It cannot be disarmed once activated. It rolls unpredictably when it lands, so on a miss it will bounce an additional 1d5 meters. Molotov Cocktail. Basically an improvised incendiary grenade, it uses a breakable container – such as a glass bottle – filled with a flammable liquid. The fuse is often a rag that stoppers the bottle. Since such a container is unbalanced, the thrower receives a -10 percent chance to-hit penalty. If it hits a hard surface, the container should shatter on impact, spraying the flammable liquid over a 2-meter diameter. If it strikes a soft surface, it has a 50 percent chance of not breaking, and thus not exploding. It causes 3d10 points of damage on the turn it explodes. The burning liquid sticks to the victim, causing an additional 1d10 points of damage on the second, third and fourth turns after the explosion. A character that passes a Reaction Speed check takes only half damage. Anyone in a spacesuit or using an asbestos (fire-proof) suit takes no damage from an incendiary grenade. Joe Cabadas |
