 June 5, 2015 - 5:43am | I'm having fun reading through my newly acquired SF rule books, but I was wondering how to make a bit more of Robots. I've looked at the Zebulon reworking and it doesn't really feel right to me, so I've worked out something with the original rule set. Basically you can fit a Level 1 Mainframe Computer into a robot. It adds the 3kg and requires a type-0 Parabattery (12.5kg), the Robot on the other hand must have the Computer Link programme, which means it has to be at least Level 4. The robot can now use whatever programmes are in its integral computer. A maintenance robot might have Maintenance 1 and Industry 1 (and maybe Information Storage for a single pre-programmed void space jump or plans of a battlestation). The robot can now undertake repairs and even manufacture spares in a machine shop. A service robot might have Language 3 and Communications 1 (fluent in six million forms of communication), or Analysis 3, Commerce 1, and Information Storage 1. You'd obviously add the additional cost of the computer, battery and programmes onto the cost of the Robot, but it does make stand-alone robots a bit more useful. Incidentally, how long does a robot Parabattery charge last? Set course for the 80's... (My Livejournal) |
 June 5, 2015 - 8:59am | That's really cool. You haven't even changed any rules. Robot carries around a computer to do the heavy mental "lifting". Why didn't I think of that? I've never seen any official rules regarding the parabattery life for robots. |
 June 5, 2015 - 1:16pm | I don't think there is an official rule but I've always played the power lasting long enough to travel 1000 km (like a vehicle) or 1000 hours of continuous operation, whichever is less. Of course since parabatteries are rechargeable, I always assume that any robot in its "native" environment has access to a charging station and recharges when not doing anything so I typically don't worry about. It's only when you're cut off from power that you have to worry about it. I like the building in of a computer into the robot. I'm actually thinking of a rule rewrite that merges computers and robots into a single system (i.e. a robot is just a computer "on wheels" with a special program and hardware that makes it a robot and not a sedentry computer). Then you would build a robot by adding in the programs you need and they'd have levels like computers. In many ways similar to the system you described. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 June 5, 2015 - 5:15pm | Aren't robots with brains already in the game? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
June 5, 2015 - 6:16pm | Yes, it's mentioned in the Knight Hawks book p42 when talking about crime organizations. "If the characters default on the loan, the criminal s will track them down and either sell them as slaves, or kill them and sell their body parts on the black market, using their brains to build cybernetic robots." Even so, considering the rules for robots, even the upper level robots aren't as smart as a living being. For example, robots can't normally learn skils like a character. On the other hand, there are some counter-examples such as the Puppeteer in Warriors of the White LIght that can apparently manage all the needed spacer skills. |
 June 6, 2015 - 2:40am | SF is a product of the time it was published in. Today we are much much closer to autonomous robots and its becoming more obvious that there is less of of a dicotomy between robots and computer than what is portrayed in AD. I dont think we need to fiddle with putting a computer into a robot as it already in effect has compter processors built in otherwise it could not do any thinking or decision making on its own. Simply give it a computer link and it can access the programs in the base's main computer. I think that the tech skills could be rewritten to drop robotics as a skill: you have mechanical skills and Code skills- a technician could equally work on the engine of a ground car or the damaged leg of a robot tools are tools and replacing parts is replacing parts. the code specialist is not going to care if the code is "computer" or "robot" when all is said and down its all 1's and 0's. OR robotics code could be a sub specialty of computer skill. What we really need is a set of AI (and or android) rules that handles an AI inhabiting a computer network or a robotic frame. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 6, 2015 - 3:30am | I've read over the description of the Puppeteer and couldn't rationalise it with the current rules. It would be useful to have skills for robots, I was considering using a rules expansion based on the system I developed above. You'd need a robot with a computer and buy each level of skill as a Programme, Most Military skills can't be purchased (combat skills are already determined by the Robot's level), you could buy Demolitions as a type-3 programme but robots cannot legally buy or use explosives and detonators, so the programme is illegal, as are robots possessing it. All Technological skills are allowed and are type-4 and Biosocial skills are type-5, but no Psycho-social skills can be learned (the Communications sub-skill is basically the existing Linguistics programme, levels of the programme function as levels of skill). These costs are all based on the base cost of improving skills. This only allows robots to have a level 2 in these skills (robots with just the maintenance programme have just the base 40% for repairs) but I was thinking of having fixed location immobile robots to have a level 2 computer (allowing for skilled Medical robots, etc) and there would be rare experimental models with computer levels of 3 allowing for the Puppeteer (Spaceship skills would be correspondingly higher types of programme as per the cost in Knight Hawks). The power useage rates for robots you suggested seem sensible, I'd ditch the separate Parabattery for the computer then and have it powered by the robot's own battery, with a 10% loss in capacity, only 900 hours or 900 miles. PS As an addendum for my first post, the sum total of computer programme levels you can have could only be equal to the level of the robot you've installed it on, which sets a nice limit. I know I've just written the Puppeteer out of the rules again, but I think that's a special case and possibly a true AI that went beyond it's limits, perhaps why it was mad. You might have a rule that Cybots have a different limitation, that they can only have a computer programme level up to their own level because of their organic nature. Set course for the 80's... (My Livejournal) |
June 6, 2015 - 2:22pm | Frankly I think I'm quite happy to leave things as they were with my first concept though, a computer as an extra piece of equipment that can be added to a robot to enhance its own brain and allow it to do some tasks independently. I wasn't really looking to add robots as characters, just make them a bit more useful. Set course for the 80's... (My Livejournal) |
June 6, 2015 - 2:44pm | Frontier Explorer Issue #3 was the robotics themed issue: http://frontierexplorer.org/book/frontier-explorer-issue-3 This might help. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 15, 2015 - 10:33am | Just been reading through the "Mutiny on the Eleanor Moraes" module. Apart from the rather useful Survey Robot (with it's own suite of special programmes) there is a Utility Robot with a maintenance programme as on a computer. Of course it also has a Computer Link despite being only a Level 3 Robot. Hey ho. Think I've fixed my concept now as a Level 1 Computer than can be installed as additional equipment on any Robot, adds 3kg and the cost, but runs off the Robot's own power source (negligable power drain). Sum total of computer programme levels cannot exceed the level of the robot. It allows the robot to function independently of a computer with a basic level 1 skill if required to be quantified for repairs, etc, but otherwise as the programme description states or as the Referee requires for the plot. Is there anything like an Autodoc/Medical Droid in the canonical rules? Set course for the 80's... (My Livejournal) |
June 15, 2015 - 5:58pm | No, the game designers very much designed it so that the players had to do the important things and not have the technology do it for them. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
June 15, 2015 - 8:11pm | Is there anything like an Autodoc/Medical Droid in the canonical rules? No that was a blind spot in the rules but something I thought about after seeing The Empire Strikes Back in the the theater. There are some fan submissions in the SFman. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
