The Great Debate: Earth or No Earth

jedion357's picture
jedion357
November 26, 2014 - 6:09pm
The basic game History says that the Humans of the Frontier dont come from Earth and this issue of whether to include Earth or not has been kicked around quite a bit.

I dont think we need to rehash that debate but rather be inclussive of both options. Leave it so that people can go the way they wish on the matter but discuss the impact, ramifications, and discontinuities of either position in relation to a bit of setting data.

The strict AD Timeline will overtly reflect No Earth and the Zebs mongrel Timeline can Embrace the existance of Earth.

I think that will work well enough and shouldn't rock the boat too much.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
November 27, 2014 - 1:59pm
We could just put a note that it is up to the Ref, but that the HW for humans can not be more than 50 SF years away from Prenglar and is probably closer based on the Zebs TL info.

I think there is plenty of room for all sorts of options involving those pesky humans.


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 1, 2014 - 6:31am
I like humanity being separated from its homeworld (whether Earth or not Earth) via the colony expedition has gotten lost, accidently travelled on the wrong course or too far

there was some talk about the vrusk in the Frontier being the equiv of pilgrims looking for a better business situation in a new Frontier with the vrusk homeworld being an unspecified number of LY away 50-ish? and controlled by a vrusk super state hive organization which is content enough to let the malcontents risk life and limb and their own money on the dangerous venture of travelling to the Frontier.

Dramune system would make a great sounding homeworld for the dralasites if it wasn't for the names Inner & Outer Reach. IMO those names suggest recent colonization. Unless the homeworld name was "Reach" and latter it changed to Inner Reach but I dont buy that.

Fromeltar and Terledrom sound like dralasite names though a significant protion of the population is vrusk. Still we could hand wave the system being the homeworld of the dralasites and that the vrusk discovered them and settled with them forging a peaceful new political entity of elected "dralasites and vrusk companies"

Yazirian "Star Exodus" across the Great Expanse is a popular theme that I've been invested in and it lets you explain the totalitarian feel of Fo1 which seems to run against the typical fan view of yaz clan based society.

However, we need a new timeline that gives a human presence in the frontier that will mesh with the cannon time line as seen in WoWL module with a stable monarchy on planet for centuries.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
November 25, 2015 - 9:54am
It might be a huge handwave, but you could say Earth is there, just in a different spot in the galaxy than our "real" Earth.

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
November 25, 2015 - 10:58am
That is pretty much what I did, Earth is around someplace but long lost, I renamed it Terra.  It might even be in a different Arm of the SF Galaxy.  Earth Tech is ancient, old unspecified 1000's of years old.

I am considering changing my current Space Humans to the Space Humans described in the D&D modules a bit... they are slightly different than their anscetors in that their skin has a slight green tint as noted in the modules. Toying with the idea.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 2, 2015 - 4:04pm
To me most RPGs are the same. Sure they have different mechanics but we start fiddling with those and making house rules almost from the tme you open the rulebook.

We get a love a game for its setting. We may change that a little too but the basics of a setting remain. For example anyone remember Eregon the movie when the director decided the elves didn't need pointy ears? Most of the audience was very confused about them.

So SF says there is no Earth. Adding Earth to SF changes the basis of the setting. Yes we have learned the setting was supposed to be an example that some lazy people never bothered to flesh out but still the canon is NO Earth.

Why would you want one anyway? You have four core races. Two of the others would need an Earth and one lost theirs but some idea of what it was like should exist. That is alot of background you don't need. Just make three homeworlds out of the planets given and move on and stay in canon.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
December 3, 2015 - 11:53am
Well both have merits... especially since the cannon conflicts. Sure it says No Earth but then turns around and uses references to Greek Culture for planet names for instance. Now that leaves two options similar development including language, mythos and so on by the Space Humans on an unnamed planet or Space Humans are somehow related to Earth Humans. Both create and solve problems. Refs always change things up anyway, so I figure this debate will never really end. 

So I have Space Humans coming from a planet called Terra. Now does Terra have to be Earth, no it does not. Terra has a similar history but divergent history to RL Earth that leads to it's destruction or near destruction (basically it is an Alternate Reality Earth). But my Terra is ancient history, myth & legend at this point... the original colonists to Frontier Space came 1000's of years ago. This colony culture made first contact with other races already present with colonies in the area... now this does not jive with Zebs but Zebs colonization dates just don't work for me & conflicts a bit with AD but not much. Terra is not returned to because the colonists that became the ancestors of the Frontier Space Humans taught their descendants it was destroyed by war with themselves. Humans in my timeline destroyed their own Home World, and many of it's system colonies.  The race only survived because people had already colonized other worlds in other systems, or where on their way to colonize worlds in other far away systems on huge generational ships. Most colonies became isolated, many failed without regular ship traffic, technology stagnated and collapsed on colonies, basically the humans in the Frontier managed to claw their way back to the tech level of their ancestors but it took 1000s of years (around perhaps 10000). The humans in the Frontier are not the only Humans in space, there are other cultures out there in my thinking at different tech levels. So Humans seeded themselves and Terran life across the Galaxy.

I feel the Humans were plotting to conquer the other races but luckily the Sathar attacked and gave them a reason to work with the other three races which for most humans has resulted in a culture change of actually wanting long term good relations with the other 3 races. However there are exceptions: individuals still who want to conquer the other races or send them packing. 

So that is how I think of the Space Humans. Also the Clarion colonists committed genocide on the dralasites who actually had a colony on Clarion... again not cannon but explains the two names for me.





 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 3, 2015 - 4:41pm
Funny thought it would be the Yazirians who wanted to conquer the other races. Them being a warrior culture while Humans are a diverse culture. Like maybe that whole cover story of "we lost our planet take pity on us" was just an excuse and they really go around the galaxy in huge colony ships to conquer other races and spread the truth of the Family of One. But the other three races were already united so the Yazirians had to delay and build strength and then the Sathar showed up and then had to put a LOOOOONG delay on conquering the other races.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
December 3, 2015 - 6:58pm
Now I agree the Yazirians have all the makings of a fanatical conquering empire... and no doubt that was the plan once they realized "we are not alone". But Humans where all ready with war ships  when the Frontier was attacked, and the Humans did boot another race off a planet. So this got me thinking Humans might be pretty nice after the forming of the UPF but some clearly had other plans before the big war.

Now I want the various cultures on the UPF planets to be unique. So the two oldest Human Colonies that are responsible for the spread of Humanity across the Frontier need to be very different, this also helps explains different results with colonists and the other races getting along or not in the pre-history. So two ships escaped the destruction and ended up in the Frontier Lux & Argos.

In my thinking the early Colonists from the White Light System are more xenophobic, come from a rigid class based society, and they were isolationists until a jump capable ship showed up. This burst the bubble of we are alone, to oh golly gee we are not alone, and these folks have tech we don't and they say there are aliens about... so this caused change some for the good, some for the bad and a desire of WLS to land grab. The WLS was isolationists because like Thesus they knew their HW system had been destroyed but had decided it was caused by not enough structure in civilian society at the time, the ship's crew believed a more structured approach to the colony was the only way to survive, so a Monarchy developed out of that with a very rigid, traditional way of doing things. The Clarion way is the right way, the civilized and educated way. I then decided Clarion/Gollywog has these two names because there was a small Dralasite Colony on the planet when the Humans showed up, the Humans did not realize this at first but once they realized this they reacted poorly and wiped the small colony out and I mean utterly, when the second wave of Dralasite Immigrants showed up in the big Sphere ship WLS attacked with everything it had, the ship escaped but not before being severely damaged and ended up at Fromeltal (a previously probed system) instead, the ship's data banks were severely damaged and a lot of information was lost except that Gollywog/Clarion had been it's destination with all other data about Gollywog destroyed (so no information on a colony), and the ship's passengers having amnesia from being in cold storage so long no one but the Clarion Monarchy today knows about the genocide. Clarions get upset about Gollywog as the average citizen only thinks the Dralasites are trying to unjustly claim their world and take what is not theirs as humans where there first, the truth is their ancestors were not first just more numerous and decided to murder to gain claim.  The WLS today does not want to conquer the stars and has found being a good neighbor far better than isolationism but it would kill to keep the secrets hidden of the past misdeeds of the Monarchy/Early Colonists. There is are other secrets too the Monarchy keeps hidden like the Charter outlining the Monarchy system was signed at gun point by many settlers.

Thesus System on the other hand took a completely different approach, they decided the rigid ways of military thinking had caused the destruction of the HW. So they went for liberty, peace, love, arts (thus the entertainment focus), and ideas they felt would make for a kinder society they desired a new way. They hoped and dreamed other colonies had survived, they hoped to some day find other human colonies, they knew Lux was headed to another system near them, so they worked long and hard to rebuild space technology and develop communication technology to find the Lux Colonists but instead they found aliens. Instead of being threatened they embraced the other two races, but also realized they needed to colonize too. 

So Thesusians & White Lighters are very different yet Human each group has biases good & bad, I also decided they speak different Languages. White Light & Thesus where not able to really build empires so to speak but spread a mix of their cultural ideas as knew colonies formed, though I think WLS wanted to unify the Human Colonies and that was probably one of their goals. Thesus was more colonize and trade but not into a unified control approach. With the Sathar War came a massive change in goals for the 2 oldest Colonies... Thesus was suddenly on board with some sort of unifying body (but for all races) when before they where all don't tell us what to do and WLS junked it's ideas of being the only Human government and keeping those nasty other 3 aliens out to yes oh yes we need allies not just trade partners and maybe we can all can get along, co-exist and we are cool with a Council of Worlds we are not in charge of, so changes in foreign policy for both governments. Anyhow that is my thoughts on the 2 oldest colonies in my setting's background. 

Basically PF time is not happy get along time it is a mix of good & bad, conflicting agendas that lead to conflicts, the humans colonize to either be territorial (WLS) or for building trade (T), both are a sort of empire building. The Yazirians are busy building their little empire in the stars and trade because they need extra resources. The Dralasites seem to have other interests and are moving slower maybe they were still trying to figure out where the heck they came from and where to go from what little info they had. The Vrusks wanted profit so they were eager for trade and want to build financial empires. So conflicts where happening between all the parties, cultural, territorial, racial, and financial.

I think the Dralasites somehow became the glue to bring about cooperation, but if the modern Dralasite population found out the truth of what happened at Gollywog it might damage severly relations between races and or cause problems for the WLS Government.



 

 




 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 4, 2015 - 7:11pm
So they all get along now? The Vrusk aren't really tough traders or Dralasites really boring and not funny or Yazirians not challenging everyone to the death with life enemy status.  Humans being so varied no one knows how to deal with them.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
December 4, 2015 - 9:31pm
LOL yes and no, they are working together out of fear, this does not mean the races are all the same, no conflicts and so on. 

I am looking at the foreign policy of it, why they go along with the UPF idea just enough to make it work.

I am also trying to imagine how the cultures where before the UPF. What makes a Human Culture unique to this planet or that. An American is different than a German or Japanese citizen, yes all human, but different in what is polite, what is rude, what is common held beliefs and so on. Watching people from different countries made me realize how different, what is normal behavior for one human group might be rude, uncivilized or amoral for another. 



 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 6, 2015 - 11:17am
The Original Battletech game loosely based the five primary houses on five cultures from history and present day. Roughly they were Japan in the age of the Samuri, Britain in the height of empire age (the good guys for some reason), China in a combination communist and imperial age (funny they were the smallest group), American in the earlier history when people identified more with their state than the federal government, Germany about the time right after the German Confederation was formed.

Each came about for roughly the same reason, something was needed to unite the people against the enemy. So the thinking would be that the human cultures had differences on their planets but when aliens were found or maybe to go and find the aliens one culture took dominance and that is the one that is generally thought of.

One example would be Mexico. While most of the planet thinks of Mexico they go with tacos and hairless dogs and really big hats those really only identify part of a vast country with many different cultures and attitudes.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?