Atomic Drives and the Environment

Abub

October 24, 2014 - 11:32am

So... in my fledgling SF game I have their Assualt Scout, the UPFS Dart, equiped temporarily with two chem drives bolted to each atomic drive (above and below). I am reducing the MR and ADF by one from this mod.

Currently I'm making the assertion that it is a common add-on for an AS, and that the drives on them are often produced with couplings for these attachements.

The reason for this madness... is I didn't want to handwave the environmental impact of landing on a populated planet with atomic engines.

SOOOO... my post here is to see if any of you have any ideas on how an atomic engine would be able to be made environmentally safe in the SF level of tech.

In my first mission the planet had two fighters that they used in thier own atmosphere but only landed them on the opposite side of the planet from where the only town population center is and in a desert at that. Most of the planet is undeveloped.

Do you think tech exists that could clean up amient radiation on planet? Do you think there is a mechaniasm that can explain how to get thrust from an atomic engine without splewing radiation out the back? Do you think tech exists to directly convert the energy release in the atomic reaction into electricity or some SEU equivelant to perhaps power turbine fans that could be build into or on the sides of a fighter's stern for use on planet. Jet turbines would not be sufficant to reach escape veloicity in general on a planet with 1g I'm thinking, but they would enable safe opperation of the fighter near populations. How bad would it be to fire the atomic engine at the ceiling altitude that the turbines can reach... like would the radiation still posion the environment if let out high up. I'm not sure that in the atmosphere shields up from space radiation... does the magnetic field of the planet push up or does it only exist outside the atmoshpere.

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Abub

October 28, 2014 - 7:55am

Your engine would require a secondary fuel source and I'm not convinved it is not really exactly an Ion Drive where the source fo the electricy is simply atomic instead of solar (which is what the voyger's use).

In your very nice and detailed model... you can replace the atomic "steam engine" with a powerfull battery and solar sail system like you see in Battletech's jump ships. They charge a battery by parking at a sun and unfurling huge solar sails and just wait there for a while.

In Battletech however they are capable of 2g travel when they want to endure physically using these Ion drives. Maybe the SF 1 ADF is more than a g... I don't recall the math.

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Abub

October 28, 2014 - 7:58am

Would radiation released in the upper atomsphere driff down to the surface or would it be pushed out by the magnetic field of the planet? Or is something like that just unknown in today's science?

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Tollon

October 28, 2014 - 8:22am

What you quoted from the rulebook suggest to me is an atomic torch? It was used alot in early sci-fi to describe an engine powered by atomic power. In that case, I wouldn't want an engine of this type throwing radiation into my planet's atmosphere.

(Reply to question Abub just posted)
Fallout from destroyed engines would only affect the biosphere if they reached the upper most atmosphere.

Tollon

October 28, 2014 - 8:44am

Nuclear Thermal Gas Core Open-Cycle is a full-blown honest-to-Heinlein atomic rocket, spraying glowing radioactive death in its exhaust.

This is the closest description I can find.

Ascent

October 28, 2014 - 10:20am

Great stuff. Scary stuff.

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Abub

October 28, 2014 - 10:42am

So Tallon... you are saying that radiation releae in the upper atmosphere would actually be worse then? I have no idea on the science.

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Tollon

October 28, 2014 - 11:05am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

This will give you some idea on what happens when a reactor melts down. Thou the percentage of death by actual radiation is very small, the long term effects of the fallout effects about 1% of the population near the reactor over the last 28 years. And yes, the reactor is still a threat to this day.

Abub

October 28, 2014 - 1:21pm

i had forgotten that Chernobyl was in the Ukrain. So Russia nukes thier northern country and then invades thier southern one.

Anywho... that doesn't answer my query about what happens if you release radiation high up in the atmosphere... i'm thinking as high as possible that a jet turbine (as in AIR thrust -- not a chemical rocket) can get cealing wize. I think it would be pretty possible to use the atomic engines to power systems and thus push jet fans for flying around on planet in like a fighter.... just still working on escape velocity. Wondering if you could go up as high as possible then then kick in the radation spewing atomic engine to blast out into space.

Kind of like the stuff Virgin is doing except the part of the ship that goes suborbital does it with chemical boosters. I'm just wondering how harmful it might be to spew radation at that altitude instead of the booster being chemical.

For my current adventure it no longer matters as the PC's have blown up the planets two fighters already... just wondering for future missions where they might be on planet and have a fighter dip down from space to hunt them.

I think it sounds like an unknown.

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Tollon

October 28, 2014 - 2:20pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Nuclear_Propulsion

Yes it is possible, there are two engine designs in this article.

As for the question about the environmental impact. Radiactive exhaust from the type of engine, I linked to, would be just like fallout from a nuclear explosion. Everytime a space craft using this type of engine would enter or leave the atmosphere, the radiactive exhaust trail would contaiminate the atmosphere along the flight path of these vehicles. Weather and wind would spread the radiative particles over the entire biosphere before returning to the ground. The more ships using this type of engine enter and exiting the atmosphere the higher the radiativity being deposited into the planet's biosphere. At some point, cancer rates would start to rise and later, if enough ships have passed through the atmosphere, background radiation would go up. Starports would adventual become radiactive waste land because everytime the engine is fired up, a massive dose of radiation is deposited in that area.

As far as the Nuclear core from a atomic reactor falling from orbit goes. First , you have the radiactive material burning off the fuel rods causing radiactive fallout to be spread over a wide area. If the core and outer casing remain intact, the resulting impact would crack open the containment vessel leaving a large radiactive hole in the ground and minimal fallout. However, this would change if the damage core landed in an area with a large water source. not only would it containminate the water source but it would create a continious plume of radiative steam caused by the meltdown of the reactor's material.

Shadow Shack

October 28, 2014 - 3:46pm

Y-Wing engine from the Star Wars Universe?

Tollon wrote:

I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why.

My SF website

Tollon

October 28, 2014 - 4:07pm

Nope, for several reasons (without pulling out the book). One, the front of the y-wing nacelle houses the sensory equipment. Two, the reactor is within the main body of the y-wing. I based this design on the concept of the reactor being housed in the nacelle to prevent the crew from being overcome by radiation. The reactor (grey oval) is one of my early designs for a starship power plant. Since I use real examples of equipment (the reactor for example) in my drawings, I designed the drawing along those lines. The reactor would be housed in a completely seperate part of the nacelle so work could be done on the thruster without contaminating the engineers working on it.