 January 12, 2014 - 11:27pm | Here at the Star Frontiers site, we often work together to come up with new things for the game. Often it is from the online magazines such as the Frontier Explorer and Star Frontiersman, and sometimes we just brainstorm and solve issues here in the forum or in our projects section. My question for everyone is this: How much of this new material do you use in your campaign? Do you incorporate everything we come up with together, or that you see in the magazines, or do you pick and choose? Do you adopt 50%? 10%? Nothing? I know that many of us have been working on our own campaign settings for decades, and so some things are already set in stone, but do you consider some new ideas about ships, combat, aliens, planets, etc? Personally, I love hearing about what other people are doing in their games. Even though a lot of my game is already set, I do still adopt new ideas occasionally, as long as I don't contradict anything. I like keeping the game fresh. This site is good for that.  |
 January 13, 2014 - 4:57am | What I write (for the magazines), I use. Stuff that inspires me written by other people, I use. To some degree stuff I incorporate, only I know its there like some of the background fluff. I rather enjoy the stuff that iggy comes up with- it feels like he was thinking things I should have been thinking but I didn't know I should be thinking it. Lots of things I are just there waiting to be use but dont require that you make a decision on them like for example the write ups on shot guns in the SFman- I dont really think about it much but if a player came to me with a Mad Max character concept and wanted a sawed off double barrel shot gun in a thigh holster I'd totally say, "Sure." Call this material with "potential energy". You read it, it was interesting but you didn't make a decision on it one way or the other at the time. Good question. I dont actually get to game much locally but since I enjoy working on a fan zine I actually spend a lot of time thinking about the setting and incorporating new things into the setting in my head. I suppose someone could look at that and say, "Get a life." but its sort of like being a fan of anything you enjoy: you spend time and incorporate material in your head whether its Football, motorcycles, Star Trek, Tolkien's books, etc. If you didn't do it with this you'd do it with something else like baseball or trading stocks.... I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 13, 2014 - 7:00am | Well, there's a huge amount of new material - more than original material even. I have encorporated every bit of some of that material - specifically the equipment, planets and creatures. As well, optional rules laid out in the community that clarify the cannon rules (or re-writes them so that they make sense) are used by me. That still leaves a huge amount of material that has been left unused by me. But my stance on that material is, if a question ever arises in-game that can be addressed by that aforementioned material, then I'll pull that stuff out and use it. Frankly it's been my experience that all this 'new' material is of an equal or greater quality to the cannon material especially since much of the cannon material is so haphazard and disjointed. I have therefore, used a substantial portion of this new material to either patch up, bolster or flat out replace a fairly significant portion of the cannon material. Happily I'm in a position in my gaming life where my setting doesn't matter as everything is brand new. My old setting from 20 years ago doesn't hold any merit any longer as I have a completely new group to interact with and everything is being rebuilt from the ground up. I can therefore, take full advantage of this dearth of new material. So eventhough all my old gaming buddies are out of the loop - I am quite thankful that I essentially have a whole new game to tinker with and introduce to a new batch of players. To specifically answer your question Boss; I don't discriminate between sources (mags, forums or projects). I have cut & pasted material from the forums and projects and I have all of the mags at my disposal. I readily root through them all like a contented pig whenever the need for information or inspiration presents itself. If I had to guess I'd put my use of this community-generated material at around 75% or so.I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you!  |
 January 13, 2014 - 7:38am | Personally, I'm not a fan of the default SF rules to really make good use of the fan-made supplemental rules that was meant to enhanced or improve on the classic game, and I would make changes here and there in ways that are not compatible with events form the published setting. On the other hand, I would use things form the e-zines and forums to enhance my games with regards to technology and setting details, but with my own twist in most cases. For the most part, my game has the same basic core elements, but it is vary different from the published rules. With the rules I use, they are a mix of rules-light systems like Mini-6 and Barbarians of Lemuria. I like to keep the game as light and simple as possible. I like the skill list, perks and complications form Mini-6, and I like the attributes and 2d6 dice mechanics form BoL. I also find the injury effects (with penalties and degrees at what medical attention is needed) from Mini-6 to work better with this genre, then the static Stamina-as-Hit Points system used in SF. With my setting, I drop the Sathar in favor of the S'sessu - basically, the prototype to the Sathar, who were going to be a fifth playable race. In fact, I tend to use the races as noted form Alien Worlds as how the races act (e.g. the Vrusk have a violent hatred for ugly objects). Humans were once subject to long forgotten genetic engineering that allowed them to control their own reproduction at will. As a result, Humans tend to fool around like the '70s never went away, as STDs and unwanted pregnancies are unheard of. The style of outfits and uniforms tends to look like stuff form old '70s-'80s sci-fi TV shows. My equipment list tends to look more like the Basic rulebook, then the Advanced book, as I like to have the characters pack as lightly as possible. Many of the miscellaneous items form the Advanced rulebook have been dropped or combined. Instead of laser pistols/rifles, "Blasters" fire a bolt of concentrated power that can do a lot of damage. Unlike lasers, they have no power setting (which I was never a fan of). Railguns are also used. Tool and medical kits are highly portable, and are free at CharGen, if the characters has the right skills. In fact, skills tends to provide free stuff or greater access to things. I split the known star systems into two types: the civilized "Core Worlds", and the rugged "Frontier Worlds". Membership with the UPF is mostly core worlds and a few frontier worlds (outposts and major trade hubs). UPF member worlds usually do not have militias, save for local policing or national guard, as they have the Space Fleet and Star Law. Militias are more common out in the frontier, as they lack the resources to build a strong fleet. Common Musters have been formed to deal with petty warlords, space pirates, or encroachment by hostile UPF or PGC warships. The Pan-Galactic Corporation holds a powerful monopoly within the core worlds, and actively work to expand their power over the frontier, but the frontier is were many daring souls go to find their own wealth or economic independence. The people of the core worlds see the people form the frontier worlds as lawless, backwater hicks, while the people form the frontier worlds see the people of the core worlds as lazy, weak-willed conformists to a tyrannical federation and all-powerful mega-corporation. For the most part, their views of each other are mostly exaggerated, but their personal views rightfully conflicts. Ships have that iconic KH deck layout, but with rotating "grav-decks" in place of the normal sleeping/living areas, as ship are slower then SF ships to use reaction gravity. Chemical and ion engines lack the energy output for powerful energy weapons or screens. Their primary thrusters are mounded to the tail of the craft. Atomic and fusion engines on the other hand, can use large energy weapons and screens. These engines have to be mounted outside of the primary hull by struts, in case they get damaged and have to be jettisoned, so the ship would not get flooded by lethal levels of radiation. Laser batteries are primarily anti-missile/anti-drone weapons. Railguns are the default anti-ship weapons. Fighters are unmanned "smart" drones, that can also serve (as well as stored and deployed) as torpedoes. A ship has to maneuver itself to face a target, to use its cannon(s) on it, and it can only use half of its batteries to attack on a singe side of itself, as the batteries are spread around the hull. Most large ships have AIs as apart of their computer cores, and they can serve as (non-player) characters by their own right. Starships require jump-drive systems and navigation equipment to go FTL. Jumping is automatic with established trade routes, but plotting new routes require more time and a skilled Astrogator to get it right. I should note that the warships stuff are still concepts, as I rarely use ship-to-ship combat in my games, in favor of what the PCs do inside the ships. |
 January 13, 2014 - 10:49am | I use a lot of additional material in my setting. I tend to agree with what was said about the original rules being disjointed, and have added quite a bit of additional material. For example, I incorporated nearly all of the supplemental weapons from the SFman articles into my setting. I likes Jedion's proposed history of the frontier and RIM significantly better than the canon material, so I use that. When we ran the volturnus series, I used a lot of material from the revisited project here. I always hated the KH rules for spacer skills so I use the "Skilled Frontiersman" ruleset instead. Almost all of the spaceship plans from the SFman have made it into my game. I'll even take it further though. After I started our game, I learned quite a bit from the Alternity and Stars Without Numbers systems. I really like the way SWON does ships for example, and there's a lot of quality deck plan art available for my VTT so I decided to start adding SWON ships to my setting. I converted the d20 mechanics from SWON into percentages, and have begun to switch the space ship mechanics into that system. I accomplished this by having the players contact "The Verge" in the course of play. They are a higher tech level than the frontier, so there has been some interesting situations where some of the verge corporate governments have projected power in the frontier. The Rigunmor Star Consortium is the S'sessu and the Mechalus, and the UPF drove the Sathar back to their homeworlds, when the S'sessu stepped in with their superior tech, and is researching how this branch from their genetic tree came to be. Anyways, it's a real blender of material in my setting, but the kids love it. |
 January 13, 2014 - 12:45pm | I'm gonna use void jump devices and podlasers... do those count? ----------------------------------------------- |
January 13, 2014 - 1:32pm | I'm gonna use void jump devices and podlasers... do those count?
Pod lasers are essentially canon and void jump devices are fan canon. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 13, 2014 - 10:34pm | @ jedion, thanks for the complement. I focus on setting material over rules because settings are more fun and the real meat of the game. Setting can be used with any rules system and is what makes the game. Rules by themselves are don't inspire awe and wonder. There is also the never ending quest to create the perfect, most realistic, easiest to play rules system which I get frustrated with. No rules system is going to match real life so I ignore rules in favor of story. I take stuff from the site ane ezines as inspiration to continue growing the frontier. I have latched onto Shadow Shack's Boneyard Station and jedion's yazirian clans with the exodus as aided by TerlObar. I try to keep the number of aliens minimal so I haven't added any other aliens from the ezine or sf.us other than the gorillians. I have them as primitives who are struggling with life in a modern frontier. I am in favour of jump fields being necessary to enter the void, and ships must create a magnetic field around them to protect them from radiation and deflect particles when at high velocity. -iggy |
January 14, 2014 - 6:24am | The style of outfits and uniforms tends to look like stuff form old '70s-'80s sci-fi TV shows. Just found this interesting little piece from here:http://geektyrant.com/news/2011/12/19/disney-princesses-as-punks-superheros-goths-high-school-girl.html  Minus the masks and these work for 70s sci fi I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 14, 2014 - 10:05pm | Minus the masks and these work for 70s sci fi ...or 1980's pop-rock rejects.  I have to say, the best Disney Princess group pic I have seen is right here.  |
January 15, 2014 - 7:49am | Minus the masks and these work for 70s sci fi ...or 1980's pop-rock rejects. I have to say, the best Disney Princess group pic I have seen is right here. You know Cinderella looks like a KISS groupie with the star painted on her face. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 21, 2014 - 1:50pm | You'd think Snow White would be the KISS groupie. Macadon, I approve of your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. I tend to do things similarly except I usually drop the retro elements. I gravitate to the 30's - 50's or modern takes on sci-fi mostly (not that I don't love Star Frontiers, just for my own stuff that's where I go) On topic, I love stealing, er, adapting the stuff I see for my own use. I'd love to see a setting free version of Star Frontiers that incorporates or at least could incorporate all of the fan made material. |
January 21, 2014 - 4:47pm | I'd love to see a setting free version of Star Frontiers that incorporates or at least could incorporate all of the fan made material. Sounds like the Alien Worlds project except without a good idea of what the original skills system looked like we never really got far with it. It was an attempt to kick around "recovering" the Alien Worlds rules submitted by Schick and Zeb that ended up being reworked as Star Frontiers. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 21, 2014 - 11:28pm | You'd think Snow White would be the KISS groupie. If there is any justice in the magic kingdom, then yes. LOL I can totally see them screaming, fainting and flashing their chests.  Macadon, I approve of your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. I tend to do things similarly except I usually drop the retro elements. I gravitate to the 30's - 50's or modern takes on sci-fi mostly (not that I don't love Star Frontiers, just for my own stuff that's where I go) Thanks, but I don't have a newsletter. Most of my game notes are in notebooks mixed with new, old and discarded ideas, subjected to different systems. What I posted above was just the tip of the iceberg of what I do. Wait, what do you mean "I usually drop the retro elements." and "I gravitate to the 30's - 50's or modern takes on sci-fi mostly..."? I would assume '30's-'50's sci-fi is "retro" sic-fi (and "pulp" to boot). |
January 22, 2014 - 7:37am | I'm planning on using the SFman article on The Order of The One indirectly... as an influance on Yast in Athor. ----------------------------------------------- |
January 22, 2014 - 8:56am | I'm planning on using the SFman article on The Order of The One indirectly... as an influance on Yast in Athor. I'm actually pulling material together to publish a system brief, a militia brief, an Athor beastiary and encounters for a conflict between Athor and Araks. PM me your email and I'll send you copies of what I have together so far for the FE. Most of the material exists in the Yazirian civil war project and the Hitchhikers guide project but I'm working it to get it presentable for the zine. I'd welcome comments and review of it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 22, 2014 - 11:09am | I find it all useful: gets me thinking along a new line, adds to my existing ideas or I decide interesting but not what I want to do. Though I am tending to be old school in style I really am enjoying the new ideas and info. I am cherry picking what I am adding and how. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
January 22, 2014 - 12:53pm | Thanks, but I don't have a newsletter. Most of my game notes are in notebooks mixed with new, old and discarded ideas, subjected to different systems. What I posted above was just the tip of the iceberg of what I do. Sorry, that's a Homer Simpson saying. I only meant that I really liked what you had posted. Wait, what do you mean "I usually drop the retro elements." and "I gravitate to the 30's - 50's or modern takes on sci-fi mostly..."? I would assume '30's-'50's sci-fi is "retro" sic-fi (and "pulp" to boot). I usually drop Star Frontier's retro elements when I'm working with it. 30-50's is certainly retro, I simply prefer that era to the 60's through the 80's. Which is not to say there isn't a lot of great stuff from that era. I'm also probably more likely to lean towards movie, tv, and serial sci-fi than many. I guess I'm more Commando Cody than Issac Asimov. One of the settings ideas I've had bouncing around is "Rocket Corps versus the Moonmen!" That will probably end up running under 13th age, as the Icons, easy scaling, and the general willingness to overlook details fits well with the tone I want. I'm currently seeing how much "realism" I can push into Star Frontiers before it starts interfering with gameplay. A few months ago I was playing around with converting SF to d20 but I wasn't finding the sort of advantages I wanted. So came back to the base system and started messing around with the things that bother me. We'll see how productive this ends up being. |
January 22, 2014 - 5:15pm | I usually drop Star Frontier's retro elements when I'm working with it. 30-50's is certainly retro, I simply prefer that era to the 60's through the 80's. It sound like a strange contradiction where you say you drop the retro elements from the game, but you prefer retro settings. I would assume they would be mutually beneficial, but I might be reading it wrong. I'm currently seeing how much "realism" I can push into Star Frontiers before it starts interfering with gameplay. A few months ago I was playing around with converting SF to d20 but I wasn't finding the sort of advantages I wanted. So came back to the base system and started messing around with the things that bother me. We'll see how productive this ends up being.
Yeah, there is a sweat spot with believable sci-fi: just enough hard science to make the fiction seem intelligent and feasible, but just enough science fantasy to keep the setting fun and exciting.Finding the right system, or combination of systems, is also key to best represent the "reality factor" of one's setting. D20 for example, is geared for fantasies like Conan, Star Wars or Rambo were the heroes can kill nameless, faceless goons without getting hurt much (all the times the bad guys miss is just lost hit points in small amounts, if you see it that way). Shadowrun (2nd ed) on the other hand, is a fairly realistic system, but its also tedious and complicated. Complexity and realism need not be mutually exclusive. If the rules are abstract and flexible enough, and with players who are smart enough, then one could easily play a realistic setting with a rule set that is no more complex then HeroQuest (the boardgame). |
January 22, 2014 - 10:54pm | It sound like a strange contradiction where you say you drop the retro elements from the game, but you prefer retro settings. I would assume they would be mutually beneficial, but I might be reading it wrong. I don't think there's a contradiction so I'm not being clear. My preference for sci-fi is modern first, 30-50's settings close behind, and then everything else. That doesn't mean that I hate or even dislike other settings. Finding the right system, or combination of systems, is also key to best represent the "reality factor" of one's setting. D20 for example, is geared for fantasies like Conan, Star Wars or Rambo were the heroes can kill nameless, faceless goons without getting hurt much (all the times the bad guys miss is just lost hit points in small amounts, if you see it that way). Shadowrun (2nd ed) on the other hand, is a fairly realistic system, but its also tedious and complicated. Complexity and realism need not be mutually exclusive. If the rules are abstract and flexible enough, and with players who are smart enough, then one could easily play a realistic setting with a rule set that is no more complex then HeroQuest (the boardgame). Here, I actually disagree. I think you can do any level of realism that you want with just about any system. Player buy in and comfort with the system are more important than what the system is. D20 for example, is geared for fantasies like Conan, Star Wars or Rambo were the heroes can kill nameless, faceless goons without getting hurt much I wanted to single out this as it's not accurate. The level of lethality of various D20 games varies wildly. Low level DnD is actually quite deadly although at mid and high levels you do have the swordsman who can jump off a cliff and walk away situation. Babylon 5 was a D20 game where even high level characters with high defenses could be killed by a single shot of a common weapon. None of the combat systems in roleplaying games are particularly realistic because it isn't any fun to have to roll up a new character every time someone draws a gun. Still, this is wandering off topic. I generally find equipment and rules to be more useful than setting information but that really isn't surprising given that I tend to make my own settings with a different era's trappings. I do however enjoy reading them and I certainly wouldn't want to see setting information go away. |
January 23, 2014 - 4:50am | I think I'd sit in on Blankbeard's Table top game even if it was a D20 system. Thanks for clearing things up. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 23, 2014 - 3:13pm | Thanks! Although it does seem like most of my games end up being goofy :) |
January 23, 2014 - 8:11pm | Thanks! Although it does seem like most of my games end up being goofy :) Goofy and D20 might be a good change, they D&D players I played with took 3.5 far and away too seriously. Combine that with the miriad of things that irritate me over 3.5 and you get a picture as to why I dont play it anymore. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
