 December 18, 2013 - 9:04pm | Re-reading Alpha Dawn, I've been reminded of how underemphasized that bare-handed brawling is. That punching someone deals so little damage, that it would take forever to seriously injure much less kill an opponent. Even with Martial Arts training, a character is just better off purchasing a nightstick to deal more damage, have a better chance of hitting, and still be able to knockout an opponent - all pretty affordably. I've thought about house-ruling punching to make it even a little bit useful. Maybe let it do 1d5 damage, plus the Punching Score value. Has anyone else considered the same, or a different modification to punching? Or, conversely, feel that punching damage is fine just as it is? |
December 18, 2013 - 9:10pm | Sorry, I meant to post this in the Rules Questions section. |
 December 18, 2013 - 9:36pm | I've always kind of felt it was too low as well. Although with every hit you have about a 10-15% chance of knocking your opponent out (roll of 01-02 or a successful hit ending in 0). So at some level it's kind of realistic. In a fight you could take quite a few hits before you're down for the count unless your opponent gets a lucky hit in. Of course I have no real life experience here so I could be completely wrong. I'm sure even one hit would hurt but I don't see it doing lots of damage. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 December 19, 2013 - 5:52am | yeah in some ways it is more realistic. In order to kill somebody with your fists it takes a lot of beating... like psychopathic violence level of beating. It does seem like Martial Arts should be able to have a better effect than just improving your chance to hit. I suppose that does increase the oppertunities to have successful hits that end in zero. Maybe just double the Punching Score? ----------------------------------------------- |
 December 19, 2013 - 6:16am | I think martial arts should just raise the likelihood of causing a knockout or disabling blow. |
December 19, 2013 - 6:49am | well, it does give you one more "ends in zero" opertunity for every skill level. ----------------------------------------------- |
December 19, 2013 - 6:51am | It does, adding 1% per level to the chance of knocking out the opponent. So a character with level 2 MA would knock out on 01-04 (instead of 01-02) and on all the rolls ending in 0. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
December 19, 2013 - 8:38am | Perhaps it is more realistic to a degree. But then, if I (a non-skilled melee combatant) was facing up against a boxer, or MMA fighter (high 'martial arts' skill and high STR), I don't think it'd take very long at all for them seriously injure me or maybe even kill me if they really tried to. |
December 19, 2013 - 8:43am | Remember that it's not just human-vs-human combat... |
December 19, 2013 - 9:06am | True. But, there were comments upthread about 'realism' so I used a realistic example. I'd expect the situation to be the same if it were a Human beating up a Vrusk, or a Yazirian beating up a Dralasite. In the case of one of the primary races trying to beat up a... Megasaurus... well, those beasts have huge amounts of Stamina. That's an exercise in futility for that reason - much less the 7d10 damage it's going to do in return. It'd end up shredding someone pretty realistically. :) |
December 19, 2013 - 9:12am | I guess that during play you could state, before rolling, your intention to kill your opponent using MA. |
 December 19, 2013 - 9:26am | I prefer the relatively non-lethal hand-to-hand combats save for martial arts trained individuals. It allows for a full knock down, drag out brawl in a space port or wherever without characters or GMs having to worry about instant death (thought the knock out is there in the background). It allows for an Indiana Jones or James Kirk type of fist fight. Kind of cool. The reverse is Call of Cthulhu, great game, but given strength bonuses to damage and a punch causing 1d3 points of damage, you can wind up slain in two to four hits. You cannot do a fist fight in that game. |
December 19, 2013 - 9:41am | Well, lets say you .... as a gamer geek have 20 stamina. A Skilled MMA fighter or boxer is probably going to have a PS of maybe 5? That means assuming they hit you every round you are beat to death in 4 rounds.... 24 seconds. That is pretty quick to kill or seriously injure you. Out game doesn't have any real way to pit your martial arts against somebody elses. MA's training is heavy on blocking and avoiding being hit all the while also engaging in attacking. When you have a player that blocking or even parrying with a weapon... does that just give them the -15 "actively defending instead of attacking" modifier to the attack? I think skill levels should get something added to that. Maybe 3% per skill level added? So a skilling sword fighter with rank 2 in Melee Weapon would have a "defending" modifier of -21%. Wouldn't a skilled swashbuckler be harder to hit even when not in all out defence mode? I suppose you could make the same critique of the system with dodging being the same no matter if it is Aunt May doing the dodging or Jackie Chan or Jack Burton. Obviously it would be a judgement call if an attack even can be blocked or parried. You probably aren't going to be parrying bullets with your sonic sword (jedi are superbeings) and I wouldn't advise blocking a stun stick with your forearms. But I am thinking of how could you allow a player to apply thier training to defending while attacking? Maybe that would be too much? I'm assuming the thinking is for you to defend when you've lost initiative and attack when you have it... but that mostly only works when you are in a "non-grinding" style of gameplay... where getting hit once can put you down. I've not run my game yet so I probably shouldn't be giving these ideas out yet.... I just know my players.... when the Yazirian soldier decides to use his martial arts (and the player is also a regional Kendo champion and martial artist) he might point out that his guy's skills should help defend even while not "turtled-up". ----------------------------------------------- |
December 19, 2013 - 10:02am | I guesss it also depends where you hit someone, but SF doesn't have hit locations... |
December 19, 2013 - 10:35am | Not sure about the defense modifiers with active defense with a melee weapon vs. an unarmed combatant. I know that fighting someone defending with a melee weapon when you are unarmed is not a pleasant experience. However if you are within the weapon's arc you are in better shape (though not truly "safe"). In game terms I think it would be safe to say that there would be a negative modifier to the unarmed opponents attack chance. Perhaps you may want to also consider that if an unarmed attacker goes in and does not score a hit the melee weapon combatant could have a bonus to hit equal to the modifier (in other words the unarmed attacker left himself open)? Just a thought. |
 December 19, 2013 - 6:36pm | Off the top of my head, I can't remember which SFman issue had the cinematic martial arts houserules in it, but I put them in my game and I really like it. I GM for my kids, so I like the game to be a little more "PCs are heroic" feel though... |
December 19, 2013 - 6:57pm | I'm planning on using some of that article but not all of it. Like I want them to track ammo because otherwise laser get out of control. But I plan on having minion like enemies that surrender after one hit. ----------------------------------------------- |
 January 2, 2014 - 9:33am | what up, fellas! Long time, no text. I use in-house rules for hand-to-hand combat (punch, kick, eye-poke, etc.) I use a base punch score relative to a character's strength, then append damage points for skill (martial arts) and to-hit roll (the lower the roll, the greater the punch/kick/whatever). I even allow the player the option to primarily target the head (less chance to hit but greater damage/KO) or the body (increased chance to hit but less damage/KO). I also include some nice bonuses for characters who want to go the MMA route (martial arts). These include damage, of course, as well as the increased defense, a greater chance to KO their opponents (via strike or choke), and a greater resistance to KO rolls. And yes, strikes aren't meant to damage/kill your opponent so much as they're used to try and KO the thug (or the very least make them run after feeling the sting). |
