 April 12, 2013 - 8:30am | A few weeks ago, someone posted, I think in the "Old School Gamers" page on Facebook, that back in the day they got the vibe from Star Frontiers that it was a light & happy setting, which may have been part of why it didn't catch on with them. They asked if anyone else got that vibe. I had to agree, but I coudn't put my finger on why or how I developed that feeling then. Probably the inner optimism of a 13-year-old player? I also responded that if one looks at it, there are corporate wars, piracy, inter-racial tensions, a mind-controlling alien menace, and weak central authority and law. Since then, I've been thinking about the Mercy Mission to Madderly's Star idea (humans attempting to drive off or wipe out Vrusk on a global scale) and just posted this morning on how Streel might go underground in a conflict with the UPF and its member planets. Gah, that feels *really* grimdark now.... Anyone else have either or both of these feelings? |
 April 12, 2013 - 11:11am | The art and advertisements. The ads were all smiles and friendliness. The art was idealistic and not dark at all. There were a few stand-out pieces, but mostly it was clean lines in most of the images. (Until you get to Zebulon's Guide, but let's not go there.) View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 April 12, 2013 - 11:21am | The 13 yr old me was just hooked on space adventure the older more cynical me see the dark underbelly plain enough. I believe you are correct in that the 13 yr old perception combined with the obvious marketing strategies worked to create that impression. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 April 13, 2013 - 5:43am | I agree with Ascent and Jedoin. I would add that it seems to me they were going a little more pulpy/space opera to contrast traveller at the time? The clearly defined enemy, the good guys in white, even the language used in the description boxes in the older modules. Personally, after hanging out here for a while and hearing stories about how the original game was edited and glossed over at the last minute explains a lot to me. Like Jedion says, the dark underbelly is there, and IMO was meant to be there in the original game with playable sathar (S'essu) but got a space opera makeover before the game was released. In my setting, I went with a premise brought up here in a thread called "The Frontier without the UPF and Sathar" or something like that. As we exhausted the original modules, my setting has taken a less clear, "darker" and more realistic tone. The Sathar have been pushed back to be much less prevalent, and now the factions are fighting without an overarching menace. My 14yo has picked up on this change. He was just asking me last week about how come Pan Galactic was a "bad guy". I got to explain how in real life,it's the rich corporations that really run the world. My work here is done. |
 April 13, 2013 - 7:28am | The setting was and is not meant for dark gloomy sadness. Hopefully not upsetting anyone but you can't have a dark dark game when one of your primary races are round little pranksters and another are flying monkeys (flying monkeys are associated with the Wizard of Oz too much for adults) Still the game seemed to try and go dark with Zeb's guide. Corporate Wars and long bloody Sathar battles and psionics. Maybe this is one reason Zeb's was despised so much. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 April 13, 2013 - 5:49pm | you can't have a dark dark game when one of your primary races are round little pranksters and another are flying monkeys (flying monkeys are associated with the Wizard of Oz too much for adults)
Sure you can/ Make the pranksters evil and the flying mokeys, well...in Oz they worked for the wicked witch of the west.  |
April 14, 2013 - 9:43am | I'm with Shadowshack on this, the Malthar is not even close to being a rolly polly happy little prankster. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 14, 2013 - 11:42am | The Malthar was a good example of how you can be a dark and villanous character. Unfortunately he is not in the basic or advanced and the words and pictures in those are geared toward a lighter take on things. The game was geared toward younger boys and my take was a party should consist of the Heroic Male Human, the soft on the eyes Female Human, the Muscle Yazirian, the Brain Vrusk and the comic relief Dralasite. PS Shadow were scared of the Wicked Witch and her flying monkeys? Cause SyFy channel just did a Saturday night movie about flying monkeys you should check out. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
April 14, 2013 - 1:28pm | My 14yo has picked up on this change. He was just asking me last week about how come Pan Galactic was a "bad guy". I got to explain how in real life,it's the rich corporations that really run the world. My work here is done. ROFL.View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
April 14, 2013 - 4:27pm | Again I think its about perceptions, I percieve the game one way 30 years ago and today I simply spin it a little differently. Rattraverller is basic correct but I think the game had untapped potential to be darker that it was percieved to be. Had it not been killed in the way it had been then perhaps 3rd edition would have been darker as it would have been competing with the likes of Shadow Run. I think the popularity of certain movies would have impacted the game as there are some clear indication of the authors of various modules and such were rifting on Star Wars, for example Aliens had some grit and darkness and a SF module inspired by that movie would have been cool. I also think that the brand of Sci Fi that the Schick and Cook have stated was their inspiration also predisposes the game to be precieved as lighter, happier and more optimistic. However the game is really like a blank canvas that you paint with Two identical canvases can have very different pictures painted on them. EDIT: Question: is there a market or need for darker material in the game? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 15, 2013 - 1:32pm | The stated intent for the game, as stated by both of its creators, was to be darker, but TSR changed it into a family-friendly game. I say treat it how you like. I think the light space opera feel works well for the game and that's how I play it. But if someone wants to do dark and gritty, it shouldn't be an issue. Though such tends to turn me off, personally, I think just because of my childhood impression of the game. I think it is that light space opera feel that gave it such a unique, long-lasting appeal, but it shouldn't stop anyone from doing what they want with it. A lot of things in modern entertainment have been changed from its original presentation, especially to be darker. Just look at Battlestar Galactica. The original was fun and Star Frontiers-like, but the new series was much darker and a bit of a hit. Though, I think most kids played Star Frontiers as a shoot 'em up game, which is pretty dark when you think about it, but fun and light as long as they didn't focus too much on playing a role. Though that might have a lot to do with a tendency of young ones to focus on using modules rather than sandboxes. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 April 15, 2013 - 4:00pm | I think it's really up to the referee to make the game daarker if that's how the gamers want to run it. You could run it or any game depending on how the GM and players want to, I've seen plenty of D&D games where the DM wanted it to be dark but gamers would just make a mockery of it. SF isn't any different. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 April 15, 2013 - 10:11pm | It's easier to start with a lighter setting and add darker elements to suit than to lighten up a fundamentally dark setting. |
 April 17, 2013 - 12:16am | When I first played Star Frontiers at 13 it did feel light and fluffy so to speak. The world was a different place back then too. Look back at what was happening in the world historically and there was plenty of dark things going on. Game were a way to escape and have fun. Just watch the news and see the darkness. Ascent's example of BattleStar Galactica is a very good point. Entertainment has changed ov er the years and society is even now a darker place than it used to be. So a lot of people play darker games. How many zombie games are out there now than back in the 80's? Most of all though, this is a game. Play it light, play it dark, play how you want too. We are all here to share ideas and see what others have to say, but in the end, how do you play your game? |
April 19, 2013 - 5:10pm | but in the end, how do you play your game?
With weighted d10s  |
April 19, 2013 - 6:26pm | but in the end, how do you play your game?
With weighted d10s Now that's dark. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 August 27, 2016 - 9:00pm | I call what Star Frontiers is "glam dark" most of the time. The bad guys are bad, even evil, but they're not really monsters. Think about how the portrayal of Nazis has traditionally been done. Casablanca. Indianna Jones. Even their fictional Imperial counterparts in Star Wars. They menace, they threaten. They may even kill, but it's either a quick, clean death or it happens entirely off screen. They never show Auschwitz. Or the Cylons. Even in the remake series, their villainy is mostly "tidy". Even Seven snapping the baby's neck is implied by a sound effect rather that shown. Compare that to one of the truly dark scenes of Cylons in the flashback scenes in Razor where Adama finds the lab here they've been experimenting on humans and you see body parts everywhere and blood-caked implements of torture and dissection. |
August 29, 2016 - 1:24pm | Part of how dark a TV show is also has to do with the target audience and where it is broadcast. Right now we have Network TV, Cable TV, Paid subscription channels, paid subscription services and the Internet. Two examples Salem was dark and racy but nothing too horrible since it was on Cable TV. Game of Thrones on the other hand, well enough said. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
August 29, 2016 - 2:00pm | True that. The standards keep chaging too. What in the 80s would be a hard-R or even maybe an X is now PG-13. |
September 1, 2016 - 4:20pm | I liked the idea of Shadow Run but was instantly turned off from playing it when I saw that a regular feature of the setting was gangs surrounding a tenement building and taking the occupants and harvesting all of their organs for trade. Tuned me off, too dark for my taste. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 September 1, 2016 - 5:23pm | I liked the idea of Shadow Run but was instantly turned off from playing it when I saw that a regular feature of the setting was gangs surrounding a tenement building and taking the occupants and harvesting all of their organs for trade. Tuned me off, too dark for my taste. Maybe they were influneced by Max Headroom. Joe Cabadas |
