 December 18, 2012 - 10:57am | Posing a question about the type of gamer you are: do you old school, new school or use spoon fred drool? Old school is pretty much the locale and plot format of the early D&D modules that left the "story" to be made up by the DMs and players playing them and typically these modules got played more than once or had great potential to be played more than once. Its a very Gygaxian model and Dwellers of the Forbidden City is one of the classics of this. New School is also know by the phrase, "the Hickman Revolution" where the module supplied a grand epic story and was pioneered by modules like I3 Pharoah and Ravenloft. "Spoon Fed Drool" is an unfair label that I just used because it ryhmed and its really an outgrowth of the Hickman Revolution, called Adventure Path which is a series lasting 11-12 installments and tells a grand story, Pathfinder is deeply invested in this. To be fair I like grand stories and I like the locale based models both. Grand stories are fun and heroic but lo0cale based adventures have more breathing room and allow for games to go off script. The ability to go off script is important to me but I dont consider having a script a bad thing either. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 18, 2012 - 12:01pm | All of the above. Although I'm probably partial to the old school style were modules provided locations and settings and the GM could weave them in as desired to the campaign. Of course I like the grand epic stories as well. And if there is a revolution named after him maybe I really should call Tracy back and do that interview.  Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
December 18, 2012 - 1:31pm | Tom, I'll email you some links where he's ascribed that evolution. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 18, 2012 - 1:51pm | Such a concept can be found with the history of modern sci-fi/fantasy literature. Back in the pulp years and Golden Age of Sci-Fi, stories would episodic adventures, with larger-then-life heroes, ham-fisted action, and with strange new things and environments to encounter. In the case of sci-fi, much of it was fantastic to the point of being near-magical, with the sci-fi and fantasy often mixing liberally, and what "real science" was used, they played-out like a science fair experiment. With them, you can get straight into the action without having to read them in order, the stories did not take themselves to seriously, so you can enjoy some free-wheeling action, and the stories tend to be short with good pacing. On the other hand, you tend to be more invested in the action then with the plot or characters, and sometimes they can feel too short, or you wish that some one-off characters would reappear in other installments. Then came the Age of Epic Fantasies and New Wave Sci-Fi. With them, stories had an overall plot-arch and character development that spans volumes (as in, A Hero's Journey), political/philosophical/cultural subtexts flavor the characters and settings, and highly detailed background materials. Sci-fi in this era was about pushing the envelope with the limits of real world physics — well, seeming possible with the right amount of Unobtainium applied to it. With them, you can get more invested in stories and the world they live in, enjoy the deeper meaning of the plots and characters, as well as the realism of the technical matters, and the plot-twists and cliffhangers have you hooked and waiting with anticipation for the next book to come out. But they can be so padded out, the developments can ruin the series if handled wrong, the heroes can be so mediocre, and the writers can take themselves way too seriously, at times! Nowadays, it seems that the only way to make a successful story, regardless of genre, is to write a series of seven or so padded-out door-stoppers, with stakes being absurdly high, and the heroes being reluctant and/or preordained by destiny. Well, I like my gaming how I like my rap, and my yarns: old-school! |
 December 18, 2012 - 2:29pm | Old school grognard here. |
 December 18, 2012 - 3:12pm | While Keep on the Borderlands was Old School wasn't Against the Giants and the whole Drow series epic tale. Especially later on when it became much more sandbox than module. Still very Old School here. Let the players develope the story. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
December 18, 2012 - 4:05pm | Old school grognard here.
IIRC one of your favorite SF mods is Dramine Run which would be more story driven I think but I also know one of you favorite D&D mods which is definetly old school. So thats not really a criticism. I dont think that you can really do a mod like Dramune run and not have a story. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 18, 2012 - 6:33pm | Now that I think of it, I like to mix it up a bit. I would have one-off adventures, with some major plot-archs handled with multi-part adventures - often with some unrelated adventures in between. I like big epic adventures, but I hate the idea of having the PCs being stuck in one. I only really use modules as a springboard for my own scenarios, but I also liberally pull plots from shows, and hate railroading or the stick-and-carrot approach. I like the streamline approach to game mechanics used by new-school games, for the simplicity and ease of play, but I hate layered combat abilities rules and gratuitous traits, as well as overly balance systems. I also like the loose, open-ended nature of old-school games, but I hate to deal with cluttered game mechanics and game tables, as well as arbitrary alignments and charterer classes. In a nutshell, I like a system that is really simple and uniformed, while also open-ended enough to have players thing outside the box, and is easy to customize. I just want to think about drafting the next adventure, and not have to spend hours having to cobble up stats for major NCPs and unique creatures. |
December 18, 2012 - 7:28pm | IIRC one of your favorite SF mods is Dramine Run which would be more story driven I think but I also know one of you favorite D&D mods which is definetly old school. So thats not really a criticism. I dont think that you can really do a mod like Dramune run and not have a story.
Don't get me wrong, I do love a good story. That said, Dramune Run is my fave SF story. But of the three choices that were offered, I like my own story/plot in my game. My SF timeline is proof of that, it's pretty "out there" compared to canon, with canon being Zeb's Guide or what little is offered in AD/KH. On that same token, when playing under another GM I prefer to play under THEIR story. I've already read the canon stories, I prefer something fresh and stimulating. I like a good plot twist. |
December 18, 2012 - 7:28pm | So you prefer to drop your DM guidebook and let it fall open to the 1/4 page combat chart and just check character level vs AC and roll a D20. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 December 18, 2012 - 8:19pm | I only have time for "Old school" and like it well enough. Lots of fun times. Never played the other two styles, but the descriptions appeal to the story teller in me. I like grand epic stories done well. |
 December 18, 2012 - 9:42pm | I tend to do best when I use the printed module as a guide rather than a set of hard rules. I guess that puts me in the old shool column. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
December 19, 2012 - 12:04pm | So you prefer to drop your DM guidebook and let it fall open to the 1/4 page combat chart and just check character level vs AC and roll a D20.
No, I have a DM screen for that. ;) |
 December 27, 2012 - 8:41pm | Definitely Old School here. I do like the big epics, but I prefer to make them myself, to flesh them out using modules as the skeleton. For example, the Volturnus modules served as the outline for a much grander, player-fueled, long-term campaign. |
December 27, 2012 - 8:47pm | Definitely Old School here.
You should write about it. I do like the big epics, but I prefer to make them myself, to flesh them out using modules as the skeleton. For example, the Volturnus modules served as the outline for a much grander, player-fueled, long-term campaign. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 27, 2012 - 8:50pm | LOL - I write about it every time I'm on here. |
 January 5, 2013 - 7:30pm | Undecided, I waffle from time to time. Some of my favorite games have been all three. One of the best games I ran started with an outline-- I had bought a friend's collection of Dungeon magazines, so I had a fun summer reading all of these old AD&D (1,2 and 3rd ed.). Then I spent the autumn sketching an outline, which adventures to run in what order, to make a whole campaign. I recruited a party, started the game, and watched the outline go out the window. I reworked that thing after almost every session, slapping in new modules and ripping out ones that no longer fit. What I was using the modules for was maps, situations, and inspiration. I had to remake all the monsters and NPCs' stats, but I could keep their names and motivations and gear the same. That's the stuff I always have trouble with. Give me a framework to hang things on, and I'm golden. Start me with an open box and nothing else, I'm going to flounder. Given enough detail in the module, especially NPCs which I can understand and play, I'm all for New School. Serve me some Spoon-Fed Drool, and I will immediately start tweaking it and adjusting it. Some of my players bought me the Kingmaker AP from Paizo two years ago, I've been thinking and writing since it came out. We started last month, it mostly resembles the stuff as written. |
January 6, 2013 - 1:36am | Aesthetically, I like the art of old-school games. Yeah, they where crude, did not always mesh-up with the setting, and often looked like a coloring book, but I like that. They have a charm about them, where newer works tend to be too flashy and serious. With Star Frontiers art, I like the art to look a little old-fashion. Lately, all I see are sci-fi characters sporting iPods, SWAT-gear and FN P90/F2000-looking rifles. Although they look fancy and all, to me that is not sci-fi looking - its too modern! They are good for a cyberpunk setting, but not an old-school space opera. When I think of Star Frontiers, I think of the works of Jim Burns, Syd Mead, Ralph McQuarrie, and John Berkey, with a mix of pulp-era cover art and disco-era TV sci-fi (think UFO, Space 1999, Buck Rogers and Battlestar Galactica). |
