 November 15, 2012 - 9:36am | I know that there are certain problems with the concept of a dyson sphere like if its spinning all the material on the inside of the hull will pool at the equator. The reason to spin it would be for simulated gravity but the tech to build such a construct would be in the realm of god tech/ magic and hence artifical gravity becomes plausible. So what if it didnt spin? And artifical grav was in play. Would this not make a dyson sphere more plausible? Other than the god awful ammount of material it takes to build one. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 15, 2012 - 12:58pm | Secondly would it not also be a great way to hide a star? So if an ultra hi tech society wanted to have a hidey hole the dyson sphere might be perfect. Though the gravity created by the star and the dyson sphere migh have observable effects on surrounding stars and thus reveal its presence to the observant. Another way it might be discovered is that ancient historic records put a star in the sky in that position but now the star is not there but we are probably talking about a short period of time with that or extreme distance. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 15, 2012 - 2:28pm | The outer lying planets and not a planet any more were not discovered by sight but by mathematics so it would be plausible that a space faring society would "know" something was there but since it is not giving off any light what it could be. Of course if they could build it they could probably find a way to hide it. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 November 15, 2012 - 3:19pm | Actually, the sphere would emit lots of light, as much as the star it is enclosing. However, assuming it is spread out over the entire outer surface of the sphere, it would just be out in the far infrared. If my quick math is correct, a Dyson sphere, 1AU in radius around a solar type (G2) star, would be emitting like a black body of about 100 K. Proper detectors would be able to see it but the peak wavelength would be out at around 30 microns. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 November 15, 2012 - 3:56pm | Actually, the sphere would emit lots of light, as much as the star it is enclosing. However, assuming it is spread out over the entire outer surface of the sphere, it would just be out in the far infrared. If my quick math is correct, a Dyson sphere, 1AU in radius around a solar type (G2) star, would be emitting like a black body of about 100 K. Proper detectors would be able to see it but the peak wavelength would be out at around 30 microns.  |
 November 15, 2012 - 5:08pm | The other problem is dealing with all of the trapped energy inside the sphere. -iggy |
November 15, 2012 - 7:11pm | That energy radiated is the energy trapped within the sphere. It would have to radiate at that rate to dissipate the energy collected from the sun and balance everything out to prevent overheating. If they generated any other energy (via radioative decay, etc) the radiated energy would have to be higher but not noticably so. The sun puts out as much energy in a second as the entire energy consumption of the earth in a century or so. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
November 15, 2012 - 7:22pm | Dyson Spheres are totally impractical for the SF civilization and for ours but it seems like a fun and interesting location. A possible Hidey hole for the last vestige of the tetrarchs. As the mystery becomes uncovered sathar and clikk forces scramble to claim its secrets. (there may have been a sathar agent working with the PCs) Artifact on Laco starts the first adventure- Legend of the Tretrachs after the artifact is figured out its a map that will lead the PCs onto the Dyson Sphere- Quest for the Tetrarchs The explosive climax happens at the Dyson Sphere- Secrets of the Tetrarchs secrets will be revealed-What they are I dont know but... they had best be good ones, perhaps a twist that make hard core SF fans say, "Holy sh--!" I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 15, 2012 - 8:17pm | Technically, a "Dyson Sphere" is a massive cluster of space stations and solar collectors build around a star's habitable zone. A large, solid ball built around a star would be a "Dyson Shell." (see Dyson Sphere, on Wikipedia, which also notes other types of other Dyson-sphere concept) A Dyson Shell would likely be open at the top and bottom of the star, as (noted above) it would not hold a habitable environment do to gravitational force. The gaps would allow ships to move through, and solar heat to escape. Although, this would create a "ring world", but with broader walls. Beyond the issue is trapped heat, a Dyson Shell would have no night time. Creatures from normal worlds, who find themselves living in such a would suffer tiredness and sleep deprivation, as they are hardwired to day/night cycles. |
 November 21, 2012 - 6:16am | Planets have gravity due to their mass. Wouldn't a dyson sphere (or shell, as the case may be) generate its own gravity since its mass would be far greater than any planet? No need for spin or artificial gravity. For those who have read the Ringworld books, I think the creators of a Dyson sphere would have enough intelligence to create artificial night, as was done for the Ringworld. At least I would hope so! Otherwise I'd be all sleep deprived, and I'm cranky when I don't get my sleep. |
November 22, 2012 - 12:50pm | Talk about massive super structures, have anyone read the manga called Blame! (and it's prequel NOiSE)? If not, then if Metamorphosis Alpha was made to be a dungeon in space, then "The City" (what the world is called in Blame!) is like a Dyson Shell of all techno mega-dungeons! Hell, it is speculated that The City extents over 32 AU (in Jupiter's orbit)!!!  Now that would make for one epic game of Metamorphosis Alpha!!! |
 November 24, 2012 - 11:02am | I find a Dyson sphere to be a useless idea myself. What do you do when the star starts to die and expands? Life inside the sphere will be impossible, so why spend all that time and resource building something like it. It would be easier and more God like to just move your planet from a dieing star to a younger star (thank you Doc Smith and the Eddorians for that idea). I know every one wants to use as much of the solar energy from a star as they can. But surrounding a star with a sphere ignores the effects of solar winds and solar flares. A Ring world would be more of use to any one. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 November 24, 2012 - 6:04pm | With a reasonable fraction of solar output at your command, what can't you do? To start off with, as a star ages over millions and hundreds of millions of years, its output increases, eventually rendering your planet too hot for life. Not with a Dyson sphere (I'm refering to a swarm structure of statites here). Redirect the excess energy and extend your planet's lifetime by a couple billion years. Want to colonize the galaxy and don't have FTL? Build arrays of lasers pointed in the direction of the nearest stars. They'll act like railroads, allowing you to send huge amounts of equipment to the new star and kick off development. You can use solar sails for both acceleration and decelleration and reach a reasonable percentage of the speed of light. At the new star, rinse and repeat. You'll be a galactic civilization in less time than it took to go from hunter gatherer to Apollo. Not finished with your solar system? Point one of those lasers at your Kuiper belt. When they start melting, collect a million years worth of volatiles, all the water you could want, and more metals of every description than you'd find on your home planet if you dug for another million years. And there are little things too. Mirrored statites would let your farms grow for 18 hours a day. You might use the same trick on urban areas for the city that really never sleeps. Moderating daily and seasonal climate wouldn't be that tricky either. For more speculative set of uses, it might be possible to spin off some of the excess mass from your star (or perhaps gas giants) and gain all the hydrogen you'll ever need. As an aside, if you could reduce the mass of the star enough, you could increase its life by billions of years. There's some very speculative physics that says you might be able use that hydrogen to make all the antimatter you care to have laying around, just in case solar sails are too slow and too safe. Now I'm not saying that there aren't huge engineering challenges between us and even the simpliest of these uses but the cool thing is that so far as we know, statites (like satellites but held in place by radiation pressure, not orbital velocity) are just beyond present day materials science. And they do make for a very cool civilization. I think a ring world would be superior as a home but it requires some very stiff materials far beyond what we know exists. |
November 24, 2012 - 6:13pm | I think a ring world would be superior as a home but it requires some very stiff materials far beyond what we know exists. federanium? So a lot of comment weighed in on ring vs shell and I'm cool with ring- i was just speculating on a setting for Tetrarch mysteries. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 24, 2012 - 8:00pm | For my advanced/enigmatic SF race (these dudes https://sites.google.com/site/stariumx/racial-profile---tsa-qa-mae ) I went with a cylinder configuration. Might not be as 'god tech' as a Dyson sphere but still advanced for SF. 100,000 years before Earth humans were building Rome and learning not to pick their noses in public the 'Tsa were escaping their homeworld & colonies in huge cylindrical "world ships". Their peaceful ultra tech federation had become the target of a former ally/suddenly aggressive race that was intent on wiping them out. The "world ships" are an 80km long, 20km diameter cylinder. There is a bit over 5000 sq km of interior space dedicated to preserving the landforms and eco-system of the homeworld. The outer hull is 5m of advanced alloy. Between the hull and surface are 20 stories of housing, industrial, food prod space. Some areas are cavernous multi-floor industrial spaces. The entire usable "underground" space is around 100k sq km. The 'Tsa are comfortable at 1.3g. There is a fusion tube running along the center axis, roughly equal to the blue/white 'Tsa homestar that puts out 13.6K luminosity. A shield rotating on a magnetic structure provides a 20 hour day/night cycle. Towers containing administration and computer cores are spaced every 20km in the interior reaching all the way to the central axis. Designed as slow escape vessels the main fuel supply (for the life systems) lasts 30000+ years and can be replenished mining reaction mass from gas giants. The drive systems typically need refuelling every 100 or so ly of distance travelled. Max speed is .8c, attained after 9 months of constant accel. The ships are maintained with advanced nano-tech and AI systems (the descendants of the original 'Tsa are not capable of the advanced tech to recreate the ships or the systems). Most of the vessels (not the one in my SF campaign) are controlled by a set of Computer Embedded Personalities. CEPs are fundamentally a living conscience fused into a computer matrix, they have the personalities and memories of the original being (including the death during the fusing process) and were intended to guide the culture of the escaping population and controlling the AI's/Expert systems that maintain the vessels. Since the SF version of the vessel has no CEPs the 'Tsa have basically become rogue gypsy wanderers. The ships have a drive system that is capable of moving them between the stars. The main drive system is augmented by several 'Tsa cruisers that can be separated for defense. I "ported" this race and their "escape ships" to my Star Frontiers campaign from my in development online game, they also appeared in print in a local anthology of short stories. I'm working on a publishable campaign involving the 'Tsa and their worldship (some material is on the above stariumx link). |
