 March 21, 2012 - 7:33am | OK gang I would like to submit this scenario but need some playtesting. SACRIFICESSITUATION During the Sathar attack on the ___________ system a UPF resupply convoy received a distress call from the Heavy Cruiser UPFS ___________. Some of the crew had mutinied and the loyal crew needs assistance to regain control of the ship. Upon arriving at the Heavy Cruiser’s location, the Sathar also arrived and a battle took place; a battle which required sacrifices on both sides. FORCES Heavy Cruiser Light Cruiser * Frieghter stats are identical, use Gullwind from Dramune Run module. SET UP UPF player sets up first anywhere along 10 hexes of one side of the map. The Heavy Cruiser is set up in the middle of the board. Sathar player set second anywhere along 10 hexes of the other side of the map. SPECIAL SET UP The scenario opens with the Heavy Cruiser having been infiltrated by Sathar agents and is out of action unable to move or fire. OBJECTIVES The Sathar player must choose one of three objectives and write it down before the game begins.
The UPF player’s original mission was to safely escort the freighters off the other side of the map. Now the UPF player must try and stop the Sathar but has three ways to go about it
SPECIAL RULE To put a crew aboard the Heavy Cruiser another ship must enter the hex the Heavy Cruiser is in and remain there one full turn. The boarding party will take over the Heavy Cruiser three turns later and the ship may be used by that side for the rest of the game. Only the Sathar ships and the UPF Destroyer have enough spare crew and marines to assist the Heavy Cruiser VICTORY CONDITIONS To keep it simple the Sathar player wins if they fulfill their chosen objective. The UPF player wins if they stop the Sathar. Of course the UPF player does not know what the Sathar player has chosen. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 March 21, 2012 - 11:06am | Neat, just one thing missing: how many fighter craft are on each carrier? |
 March 21, 2012 - 11:07am | Printed - might run this tonight! |
March 21, 2012 - 11:32am | Ah these are cruisers not carriers but if you want to run it with carriers then go for it and let us know what forces you used. The basic premise can work with a range of ship types as long as the UPF ships are only capable of holding off the Sathar if partly used and have an even chance if they don't have their biggest ship. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
March 21, 2012 - 1:03pm | rattraveller, fixed your post, is that correct? |
March 21, 2012 - 1:48pm | Noticeable difference then...two fighter squadrons would have little difficulty whittling down the pair of sathar ships, leaving little for the destroyer, carriers, & freighters to mop up. ;) Still, a pair of light cruisers and a destroyer (plus four armed freighters) versus a single LtC and frigate seems one sided. I'd go with one carrier (w/6 fighters) and the destroyer (plus the freighters) for balance...or go so far as to swap in a pair of assault scouts instead of the carrier & fighters. This assumes the four freighters are ADF:4 like the Gullwind, as they can swoop in to make strafing battery runs as needed. Either way it's my understanding the UPF heavy cruiser is out of action for the game, until one side or the other can get a crew aboard it anyways (meaning it isn't in the UPF roster at the beginning of the game). |
March 21, 2012 - 2:56pm | Maybe I wrote something wrong there but it is supposed to be 2 Assault Scouts. Everybody's favorite Clarion Royal Marine ships. Not sure how I put in carriers in there. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 March 21, 2012 - 2:59pm | Also, you need to consider what happens if one side puts a boarding party on the heavy cruiser, and then, before the three turns are up, the other side does so as well. Do they cancel each other, the last one there wins, etc. Otherwise, I'd have to agree with Shadow Shack. Without even playing this, if you give me 2 LC and 1 Destroyer against 1 LC and 1 Frigate, the Sathar are badly outnumbered. And since the freighters are armed, that gives an even greater advantage to the UPF. On the surface, I don't see the Sathar winning at all. I'll give it a spin and see what happens. Another thing to consider is giving a maximum starting speed. Otherwise, I could technically declare the UPF starting speed to be 60 and zip across the map in one turn thus successfully escorting the fighters out of the fight. I know that's against the spirit of the encounters but it technically feasable given the rules setup. I sort of had this happen to me. We were facing off and the attacking ships started out at a speed of something like 30 or 40 and so covered half the map on the first turn, totally upsetting the way the scenario was expected to run. Completely caught me off guard.  Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
March 21, 2012 - 3:00pm | Okay, 2 Assault Scouts and a Destroyer for the UPF make it much more balanced. Will be fun to try out. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
March 21, 2012 - 3:49pm | Okay --- 4 Gullwind type freighters, 2 assault scouts, and a destroyer against a LC and frigate...with a heavy cruiser in the middle that is up for grabs. As Terl notes make it similar start speeds and I can work with this often  |
 March 21, 2012 - 4:18pm | Put a speed limit on the freighters so the UPF player can't go hell bent for leather to save the freighters while writing the cruiser off which is what the new commander of the escorting force should do, what the commander on the heavy cruiser would have ordered. So if I might tweak the set up: mutiny has caused confusion in the command structure and the new escort commander is perhaps a bit green so the UPF commander can make what is the real world wrong decision and go after the sathar with everything he's got ie the freighters. Secondly ditch the writing down of the objectives and give victory points for various things happening- including the UPF player destroying the heavy cruiser to prevent it from going over to the sathar. The UPF ships are in the center of the board coasting at speed 4 or 5 when the sathar entertainment at a higher speed. Now the UPF player has some tough choices. Also the sathar more often then not field destroyers over frigates and the UPF fields frigates with destroyers being rare in its order of battle, give the worms their destroyer and stick the UPF player with the frigate then give all the freighters ion engines and the UPF player has a real tactical problem. I'll post a little more on this latter. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 21, 2012 - 5:05pm | You could also create cards, each player randomly draws a card to determine setup and victory conditions. This way it's randomly re-playable. |
March 21, 2012 - 7:48pm | My preference would be a menu of victory conditions so that in the ebb and flow of the tactical situation a player may attempt a "punt" to save his baccon- ie UPF player opts to shoot the cruiser to prevent the sathar from getting away with it better to destroy it them selves and allow the sathar a minor victory rather then let them win a major victory by getting away with the cruiser. Having a menu of conditions simulates the Pregame choose your objective but has the flexibility of being able to adjust as the game plays out. Also on the frieghters- what if they freighters are chocked full of Ground Fleet troops- loss of even one freighter will jepardize Ground Fleet's ability to support a major campaign against the worms. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 21, 2012 - 9:48pm | Also on the frieghters- what if they freighters are chocked full of Ground Fleet troops- loss of even one freighter will jepardize Ground Fleet's ability to support a major campaign against the worms.
If that were the case, they'd be HS:8-10 assault transports instead of freighters.  But fill them with LandFleet tanks and such, and the scenario still works the same. |
 March 22, 2012 - 1:41am | Just a side note, wouldn't it be more "traditional" to have Destroyers on the Sathar side and frigates on the UPF's? Not that there are exceptions, of course, it just qould sound more ... Sathar-ish. @rattraveller, would you like to update the mission briefing in your first post, in those points in which you aggree with the discussion? Would offer a better overview, thanks! Last game played: Somewhere in the 80th (Vrusk by heart) -- fond of Jugger, a "post-apocalyptic" sport |
March 22, 2012 - 12:00pm | Just a side note, wouldn't it be more "traditional" to have Destroyers on the Sathar side and frigates on the UPF's?
I had thought the same thing once the craft designations were hammered out, but then the UPF would have a serious advantage in performance with all of their craft being faster than the sathar craft. It's a bit more balanced in that regard as written. |
 March 22, 2012 - 12:36pm | I love this game!  During the Sathar attack on the __(place)__ system a UPF resupply convoy received a distress call from the Heavy Cruiser UPFS _(person, place, or trait)_. Some of the crew had mutinied and the loyal crew needs assistance to regain control of the ship. Upon arriving at the Heavy Cruiser’s location, the Sathar also arrived and a battle took place; a battle which required sacrifices on both sides.
Lets see: "During the Sathar attack on the Albuquerque system a UPF resupply convoy received a distress call from the Heavy Cruiser UPFS Hillary Duff. Some of the crew had mutinied and the loyal crew needs assistance to regain control of the ship. Upon arriving at the Heavy Cruiser’s location, the Sathar also arrived and a battle took place; a battle which required sacrifices on both sides." Hummm...? Somehow, it not that funny?  |
March 22, 2012 - 2:56pm | Hummm...? Somehow, it not that funny?
"During the Sathar attack on the ___Washington D.C.___ system a UPF resupply convoy received a distress call from the Heavy Cruiser UPFS ___Hillary Clinton___. All of the crew had mutinied as there was nobody loyal to this ugly old hag. Upon arriving at the Heavy Cruiser’s location, the Sathar also arrived but a battle didn't take place; as nobody wished to sacrifice anything to help out this haggardly decrepit beast. Nay, both sides saw it best to simply permit the involent old bag to suffer its own fate, and rumor has it radio silence was broken with both the UPF and Sathar singing 'Kumbaya' in unison as they left the scene..." |
March 23, 2012 - 2:51am | Isn't there a battleship named the Clinton in the game? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 March 23, 2012 - 6:47am | No no Jedion, it wasn't a battleship. It was the brand name of a cigar as I recall which the company proudly described as the "flagship of their product line".  I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
March 23, 2012 - 8:35am | Yes, the battleship Admiral Clinton is the flagship of Strike Force Nova (KH Campaign book p48 under Spacefleet Organization). Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
March 23, 2012 - 12:09pm | UPF Order of Battle You spaced my battleship!  |
March 23, 2012 - 12:16pm | Isn't there a battleship named the Clinton in the game?
...and you got the reference. ;) Granted the battleship was named well before our favorite cigar tantalizing President and that sea hag wife-thing of his were in the lime light. Rumor has it he replaced Socks the cat with a dog named "Stains". When he calls the dog it's "Come, Stains!" |
March 23, 2012 - 12:32pm | When I saw "UPFS Hillary Clinton", I was thinking of the Admiral Clinton. I only remember that ship, because I really like SFN. I know that the fleets shuffle their ships around, but their is something to be said about that highly mobile fleet. That, and the other fleets feel like a garrison force, until the Sathar hits the fan. I get the feeling that UPF crewmen and officers don't get their service cherry popped until they serve a tour on Strike Force Nova. They could even have something akin to the Line-crossing Ceremony, when a ship makes a full turn around the Frontier sector. That would be cool! |
March 23, 2012 - 5:04pm | While I did not have any idea of using "standard" ships for the scenario I was only looking for a balance in the two forces. BUT if you want justification for the ships involved here goes: The Heavy Cruiser can be from any task force depending on which planet is the background one chosen. There are two Destroyers and three Assault Scouts in the Unassigned section of the Order of Battle and ZERO Frigates so guess who got Convoy Escort duty. DD Allison May (I would have put her in TF Cassidine, but the KH Campaign book has no DD in it.) DD Arcturon (Dragon April ‘85 issue) AS Arrow (Apr ’85 Dragon) AS Remora (Apr ‘85 Dragon) AS Javalin * A Frigate is a fairly standard escort for a Cruiser and since the Sathar are notorious for not having alot of ships this works well for the scenario. Now on the Victory Conditions A point system could be worked out but I do not see it working well for this scenario since the Sathar have only two ships. About changing your goal at the last minute to "punt" a save. I try and roleplay some outcomes and think it would go like this: "Captain your mission was to bring that Heavy Cruiser back to us" "Yes Admiral but I decided to change it and destroy the freighters and come home." "I see Captain we spent two years getting enough agents aboard that ship to bring it to our side and help turn the tide in space in this war and you decided to take out the freighters to win the battle. Now about your new assignment as maintenance leader on the Garbage Scow Clinton." In the military you obey mission directives not make up new ones because it suits you. Still will work on the suggestions and come up with a submission. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
