 December 2, 2011 - 8:38pm | Hey! :) I was wondering about the efficacy of a Sathar planet-based Listening Post? What kind of capabilities would such a thing have, or to clarify, what would be the range (in light years) from which it could logically spy on a target? Would it be positioned to spy on a specific target or would it have an ability to data mine radio transmissions from omidirectional sources...or would it do both? Would it be equiped to visually spy using long range telescopes maybe (or probes)? Or simply rely on intercepting radio communications? Any information would be helpfull! I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you!  |
 December 3, 2011 - 8:06pm | Depends on how you view the Sathar behind the plot... Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
December 3, 2011 - 10:15am | Excellt! Thanks TSC, that answers my question and was about what I was expecting. :) I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
 December 3, 2011 - 11:31am | Well there was just such a sathar monitoring post in SF-1. The purpose for it was apparently to watch Volturnus against the possibility of the eorna rising again. It was triggered by the pirates activity but perhaps not the first ship that came. I'm of the opinion that its job is to monitor for space based activity and call the extermination crew when it reaches a certain level. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 3, 2011 - 11:50am | Do you think the Sathar would have hidden outposts here and there on the fringes of the Frontier to keep tabs on the happenings of the Frontier then Jedion? Or do you think it is simply for them to be alerted to advanced cultures so they can then proceed to wipe them out? The simple fact that the Frontier is still around after the Sathar's first contact suggests to me that the Sathar are, for whatever reason, not capable of exterminating the 'infestation' at this time. But this also suggests to me, that they would most likely not turn a blind eye to the happenings in the Frintier and would most likely have capabilities (other than agents) to help monitor their enemies. The reason I ask is I'm considering using them in a 'foreward observation post' or 'covert listening post' capacity which means that they should be somewhere on the map of Frontier Space - and would have to be close enough to realistcally be able to conduct their spying (remote sensing, communication data mining, etc) endeavors. All of the encounters I've been able to read up on suggest that the Sathar are coming from somewhere to the 'west' of the map of the Frontier; specifically somewhere between the Capella and Starmist systems. There's an unexplored system close to Capella that I'm eyeing for this covert outpost and I'm trying to determine if that is a feasible location to consider. I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 3, 2011 - 12:25pm | I actually wrote about this in an article called the Sathar summit I think. And what I did was take every observed sathar action and behavior from every module and assume that they were thinking sapient following their own agenda and try to figure out what that agenda is. (Reality is that they were the foil used by the writers and did whatever the writers needed them to do so my surmising don't realty mean much). However it was a fun exercise and as far as I can tell the sathar have two reactions to other civilizations. If the civilization is spacefaring and could pose a threat then they wipe it out. If its not space faring or only just barely they groom it as a client species like the mhemne and the zuraquor. I believe the leave monitoring stations when they wipe something out as seen on volturnus. Very likely they use similar monitoring post on the approaches to their territory. I doubt these listening post have light year reach as any info would be old, years old, instead they monitor for local activity and subspace radio back- not a perfect system but it does give them some warning. And I think they are deathly afraid of something judging from their extreme reactions to space faring civilizations. Its probably the case that the UPF is the first to fight them off. Ooops not true its the ifshnits that were the first to fight them off. But you have to wait till 18 to see the timeline. Its also interesting that they left voltirnus fallow for 900 years -odd that. I would guess that the time period between wars was filled with espionage and emplacing listening post within and without the Frontier. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 3, 2011 - 12:34pm | Jedion: I actually wrote about this in an article called the Sathar summit I think. Cool! I'll see if I can find that thread and read some more. Thanks! Judging by the posts by the two of you it seems that it would be quite probable to find some Sathar outposts here or there (but not necessarily on just the western edge of the map) so I'll forge ahead with my notion...maybe place them somewhere else though, will have to see if any other locations look more attractive to me. Thanks for the assistance! Edit: After looking over the map some more that unexplored system by Capella still seems like a pretty decent spot. With an established outpost there (information could be relayed via subspace radio that the coast is all clear or whatever), the Sathar could jump to that system undetected and use it as a staging area for a renewed war. There's another unexplored system over by Liberty at the 'southern' end of the White Light Nebula that would be good to. Hidden away in a nebula, yet right on the doorstep of the Frontier. One of those two spots should do, will just need to choose. :) Thanks for the help! I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 3, 2011 - 12:36pm | Jedion: I actually wrote about this in an article called the Sathar summit I think.
SFman not sure which as I'm on the road possibly going back to 14.Cool! I'll see if I can find that thread and read some more. Thanks! Judging by the posts by the two of you it seems that it would be quite probable to find some Sathar outposts here or there (but not necessarily on just the western edge of the map) so I'll forge ahead with my notion...maybe place them somewhere else though, will have to see if any other locations look more attractive to me. Thanks for the assistance! I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 3, 2011 - 12:41pm | I also think they represent a degenerate society in some way since the have not advanced their tech much in 900 years nor expanded to colonize a rich planet like Volturnus after destroying its civilization. The listening post strategy represents a realization on their part that they cannot occupy territory that they conquer and I think the Frontier civilization must scar them poopless. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 3, 2011 - 1:00pm | I think they rely more on their Agents in the Frontier than listening posts. However, near territory they want to protect or watch they would have posts. Posts would range from passive (sending subspace signal triggered by an event) active short range scan (1 light year, or detecting subspace waves as ships exit the Void) and finally longrange active scans (10 ly) protecting an area. Posted w/ nook color. |
December 3, 2011 - 1:09pm | I found the thread that you mentioned previously at: http://www.starfrontiers.us/node/4388 But haven't yet found the article you mentioned in SFMan. Will keep lookng though. Jedion: The listening post strategy represents a realization on their part that they cannot occupy territory that they conquer and I think the Frontier civilization must scar them poopless. True. I see that as an end that could not have been any different though. They would have to have a limitless population in order to subjugate and then occupy every bit of territory that they conquered. Space is vast and so therefore, the population of the conqueror in a scenario such as this would have to be just as vast to succeed in doing that. At some point they will have reached a point where they simply would run out of people to continue to conquer and occupy I would think. So the strategies left would be to stop conquering stuff. Conquer stuff but leave it unoccupied or fall back to your own borders and observe those threats around you so you can be ready if they decide to get hostile (I'm sure this isn't a comprehensive list of options, but it's adequate to impart my school of thought on this I'd think.). I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 3, 2011 - 1:12pm | @wOOt: So long story short, do you think it's viable to have a hidden, manned Sathar listening post/staging area at some key location within the Frontier? And if so...would one of those aforementioned unexplored systems be a good spot for that? I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 3, 2011 - 1:21pm | Maybe its the Sid Myer Civilization player in me but it seems that they'd at least establish a colony and exploit resource. The colony would grow and they'd have an influx of new resources. Unless of course they're overextended somehow. I think the sathar have to have one or more handicaps and their fall to the UPF & Rim is only a matter of time; sometime between the Centennial and Bicentennial of the UPF.,...,.....,..........................EDIT: "Sathar Briefing Report" issue 12. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 3, 2011 - 1:27pm | I can certainly see that as a viable outcome/explanation as to why they would wage war then retreat without completing the job/occupying the territory taken. So if future scenario writers come to that point and write that into the timeline the next question would be: what power/force would fill that void? Some new, more/equally dangerous alien species? Maybe the UPF would then be the guy with the biggest stick on the block? I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 3, 2011 - 1:51pm | I think that since the sathar were active 900 years ago and the klikk were active 1000 and built bolo sized hover tanks that they probably overlapped and the worms were the reason the klikk felt they needed the huge tank. So klikk are always a possibility or the break away mechanon allies of the worms. Or the UPF could break up: Yazirian civil war, and other internal struggles. After 200years of UPF history change could easily happen. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 3, 2011 - 2:37pm | Jedion: EDIT: "Sathar Briefing Report" issue 12. Gonna check that out, thanks for the directions. :) I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 3, 2011 - 2:34pm | Alright. So after having looked over the material that Jedion pointed me toward it seems to me that - though it is quite plausible that listening posts, forward observation posts or staging areas are likely in existence here or there in or around Frontier Space - it is a matter of SF cannon (present and future) and someone steeped in such cannon should handle whatever scenario would involve that interaction. That someone would not be me, as I know just enough about SF cannon to accidentally warp or completely break it if I go down that road. So, it seems like it would still be alright for me to work the Sathar into a scenario that I write, but not in a militarily significant fashion. Maybe have a group of Sathar operating a lab on an unexplored world or something. Guess they should have a support ship nearby as well. But not a permanent espionage facility I don't think and it should likely be somewhere just off the map. Thanks for helpping me sort that out y'all! :) I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 3, 2011 - 2:57pm | You can't break the setting, the worst that will happen is people will change what you write to suit themselves or not use of if the don't like it. I just started a new brainstorm thread in the sathar project to brainstorm on SW3 not matter what's produced it will constitute an alternate setting and some won't even use it simply because I include the Zebs material. I say go for it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 3, 2011 - 3:04pm | @wOOt: So long story short, do you think it's viable to have a hidden, manned Sathar listening post/staging area at some key location within the Frontier? And if so...would one of those aforementioned unexplored systems be a good spot for that?
Location would be unexplored/unknown by the UPF. This location would make a great adventure for someone misjumping, detecting the post, then high-tailing in back to known space. Search for "sathar" in the Subject Index Star Frontiersman
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December 3, 2011 - 4:26pm | Alrighty then, I guess I'll move it back onto the map. Will stay away from the military aspect though and go with a secret lab or something a bit less controversial I think. I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 3, 2011 - 4:39pm | I think the Sathar, and the Clikk, and any leftover Enora, Tetrarch, and the as-yet-not properly-named and theoretical Unspec... or any other similarly ancient potential precursor yet seen (Asguard to Zentradi Masters)... are all at a capability level that defies any description better than what is given for the Sathar. I still hold to the unknowable motives of the Sathar, in as much as, anything that even a GM decides is possible within his/her own imagination, still but only scratches the edges of observable truths behind their capabilities, goals, and physiological make-up... the true horror is unknowable... decide what you like, it still will never be right... they are truly unfathomable. Only the 'normal' races; dralasites, heliopes, humans, humma, ifshnit, lokuku, mhemne, osakar, saurians, s'sessu, vrusk, yazirians, zethra, and zuraquor... and even those potentials of fan-works and filched-fic - from andorians to zonama sekots - found across the web... can be accurately 'labeled' and 'profiled' with any hope of reasonable accuracy, in matters of technology level, social habits, typical motivations, and .... total civilization historical lifespan. This perspective doesn't actually help 'pin-down' hard numbers and accountability to the Sathar... but it is my belief that it is the intended role of the unfathomable menace, unknowable horror, villain species - alien archetype... if they need to know what is going on ... they do... if it is not relevant from the PC perspective... don't bother. They are as likely to have unknown observation outposts under key government buildings - as on a remote as-of-yet unexplored 1km rock in unsurveyed space on the back end of nothing with nothing to observe... and they have proven to be as likely to invade an entire planet en masse, for no observably strategic target in mind better than some boys pet armadillo that may have come from a ship crewed with officers with high sathar-target-kills - as they are to ignore an entire ship-yard of top-military officers, and the production of a fleet of experimental SF combat vessels, occupying the same system as their own fleet of ships that outclass SF 10 to 1... yet nothing supports this as being capable of fear when engaged in unprovoked attacks of SF ships are outclassed 100 to 1... and still Space Fleet claims the Sathar always seem to take an over all 9of10 victory due to "superior strategy, tactics, and espionage". Simple statement is: don't try to figure out how the Sathar always have 10 moves of strategic advantage over their "mouse", or even what kind of mouse would be in the area most interesting to them when spotted... just accept that they are at the advantage... assume that you are the "mouse"... and adopt a "retreat-first and answer-questions-later" strategic intelligence gathering priority whenever encountering them. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
December 3, 2011 - 4:54pm | @TSC dude you are totally wrong here... check out their description in the book, and read up on their motivations in the modules... they are sometimes scary I grant you, but they have a consistent framework... (imagined by human minds) to support their alien motivations as predictable and understandable... seriously, one would think you are suggesting that a person have to be an alien to understand the Sathar... you do not have to be an alien to understand the alien mind created by a human imagination... go talk to yourselves you nut! there are alot of specific places where the sathar capabilities are shown and they are never over-the-top they always have what makes sense to the mission that the PC's stumble on, and not so much that it over-balances the loot... obviously this means they have a predictable limit on their capability. I do not think you have to go insane or something to develop a workable understanding of the Sathar, though most of your babel would suggest a paranoid schizo mentality... do you have nightmares about worms or something? Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
December 3, 2011 - 8:09pm | AHHHH! wooorms!!! [stumbles into the darkest corners and mutters repeatedly: Worms... I hate worms... worms make me crazy... I was crazy once... then they put me in a rubber... rubber room that is... then I died... then the worms came... worms... I hate worms... worms make me crazy... I was crazy once... then they put me in a rubber... rubber room that is... then I died... then the worms came...] Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
