 December 2, 2011 - 10:29am | Hey guys! By naturally occuring I mean (for example), sulfuric acid pools created through volcanism. I am running into a bit of a problem concerning damage and how to apply it to naturally occuring acidic sources. I used the 'search' function and could not find anything that would help me define a generalized damage alottment system to this. So I was wondering if I could get some input from the community about it? :) Here's my dilema: If you have an acid with a pH of 1.0 (battery acid) all the way down to 0.1 (concentrated sulfuric acid) the damage accociated with that is fairly subjective. Length of exposure is a major factor for example not just simply the pH involved and in the case of sulfuric acid, the rate of damage is different for organic matter than it is for inorganic matter. This would be the same dilema we'd have for a caustic base as well. so if we can define this in suitable game terms we could kill two birds with one stone maybe. What I need is a general way to distribute damage in game terms. 1d10 seems too much to assign a 1.0 pH acid for example, if it is only in contact for a few seconds before being adequately flushed/treated...but 1d10 also seems too little if it isn't adequately flushed/treated. Seems there should be a sliding scale starting at pH 1.0 and going down thusly: 0.9, 0.8, etc. 1d10 per step seems excessive... Anyway, thoughts? Or is this already covered somewhere and I'm just missing it? If so, can someone please point me in the right direction? :) Thanks! Rollo I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you!  |
 December 2, 2011 - 10:53am | First off it should be remembered that with enough water you can dilute and this treat any acid on the skin and don't necessarily need no stinking sla-gel from the Med kit. As to damage 1d10 down s sound too much so let me think awhile and post later in that. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 2, 2011 - 10:57am | Sounds good Jedion! Thanks for the reply! I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 2, 2011 - 12:46pm | #1: I think that damage should be 1 STA/ turn spent in direct exposure. Players will be motivated to un-expose real quick. However, if clothing is not hazmat then its become soaked and damage continues for 1d10 turns after getting directly out of contact. The simple solution is to dilute with water or use the anti acid stuff in the med kit. Why enforce this? Because fresh pottable water will not be so common on Evergloom. and you can rule that it takes 2 or 4 liters of water to end the burning. in addition i think that acid burns should automatically carry the pain penalty that normally acrues at 1/2 STA- this also means 1/2 movement. until pain penalty is removed through first aid or hypnosis. Its not to devastating but can have dire consequences due to running out of water. #2 I may have to hijack this thread: I wrote 2 and planned 1 more "Hazardous Environment" Articles for the zine each with a theme; "Its Cold Out There", "Don't Go into the Water", And "What's Cooking? You Are!" I have not finished The Whats Cooking article since a portion of it is recycle of the water rules from SF-0 and sand storm from the same module. plus it was to contain the recycle of the dust devil rules I included in the Digging in the Dust of Laco article (SFman 18) so I felt that with so much recycle that perhaps maybe I would wait before using it. However it now seems to me that the whats cooking theme could be split into Volcanism Hazardous Environment and a Separate Desert environmental hazards or just that the inclussion of the volcanism stuff would outway the consideration of the recycled material since its just restated for thoroughness. Anyway if you plan to submit this adventure I can move one of the other hazardous environment articles and finish up the Whats cooking theme so that it appears in the same issue with your article. As for high jacking the thread are there any other environmental hazards that should be addressed that deal with volcanism? acidic pools, gysers, laval, noxious gas, volcanic erruptions, ??? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 2, 2011 - 1:20pm | I think that one thing you can do is have a table that says things like Each continuous day exposed to the elements on Evergloom: 2% direct exposure to acid pools: 5% Exposure to gyser spray: 7% Swimming or wading in acidic water: 25% Exposure to the blood of creature X: 5% and on a paper behind the Referee's screen you track the accumulative % rolling 1/day per character to see if a random piece of equipment breaks or malfunctions in some way from accumulated exposure to the environment. Do we have haz mat suits detailed for the game somewhere? New equipment ideas: rubber boots, haz mat suits, limitmus paper. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 2, 2011 - 1:24pm | Jedion: I may have to hijack this thread As far as hijacking the thread, no problem. My question has been answerd and doesn't bother me if this thread is used for more in-depth analysis of related content! :) Jedion: are there any other environmental hazards that should be addressed that deal with volcanism? acidic pools, gysers, laval, noxious gas, volcanic erruptions, ??? Ok, there are a couple other dangers associated with volcanoes that I can think of actually. Pyroclastic flows are different than a standard volcanic eruption and may warrent their own section. Also, Carbon Monoxide 'dead zones' have a close relationship with volcanoes and they don't have to be accociated with an eruption either. Such zones can exist near a volcano and would 'pool' in low-lying areas. Entering one of those zones would mean death by axphyxiation in a matter of moments. There is of course, large pieces of ejecta - football-sized (smaller or larger, whatever) chunks of rock or partially solidified lava randomly falls over a large area after an initial eruption. It would be a matter of dumb luck getting struck by something like that but it is a danger just the same. Volcanic 'dust' is notorious for being similar to tiny snowflake-like bits of sandy glass that absolutely chew up moving mechanical parts...and cause extreme eye and throat irritation. When I was in the Army I spent time in Hawaii on a training exercise - two weeks. I was issued brand new boots a week prior to leaving. They were completely shredded during that two weeks from the volcanic 'lava' rocks that we were routinely hiking through. I don't mean simply worn...I mean literally worn right out to the point were (by Army standards) they were no longer servicable. So the hard rubber soles were gouged and missing chunks and the leather was similarly gouged so that the boot actually had bare untreated leather exposed and were no longer completely black. The rocks were all small and uneven meaning we had a lot of twisted ankles to treat. And falling down meant cuts and scrapes aplenty (especially on the hands and knees) from the lava rocks...that stuff is pretty darn sharp! I have one clarification right quick though before I post this. Jedion: #1: I think that damage should be 1 STA/turn spent in direct exposure. Was that to mean 1 STA/turn per step down in pH? So starting with a pH of 1.0 damage would be 1/turn...pH of 0.9 would be 2/turn...pH of 0.8 would be 3/turn, etc? I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 2, 2011 - 1:43pm | No I was just thinking generically acid pool=1STA per turn and exposure continues 1d10 turns after if soaked clothing. I think the best think to do is to simply rate 3 grades of acidity and game masters can decide which they want for an encounter. 1,2 or 3 STA/turn and avoid using actual Ph numbers. Upside of this approach is that it becomes awful hard for someone to come along after the fact and dispute your science and it remains a fun (fun for the GM that is) quick and easy mechanic without having to look up a chart. Call the grades mild (as in mildly dangerous), Strong (strongly dangerous), & severe (severely dangerous) same can apply to a base it obeys the KISS rule and should be easy to remember. EDIT: the environment of the planet is shaping up to be very hostile as a side note the rewards of screwing around here should be equally high, whether by collecting medically important poison samples as has been discussed or some other reward. Glad I asked about Volcanic hazards as now I think there should be a separate article on just volcanic hazards. I just need a somewhat funny subtitle Heat and desert hazards will get lumped together I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 2, 2011 - 1:53pm | Alright, sounds good! I'll edit in this new information to the world description and update the project thread shortly. Then we can further refine it if needed...and I can start focusing on a scenario to go along with this place. :) Sathar outpost, listening post or forward observation post... Saving some stranded explorers or scientists... Collecting samples for scientific research... hrm... lol I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 2, 2011 - 2:06pm | Could the standard envirosuit be modified for volcanic zones I wonder? Instead of a completely different hazmat suit, maybe just a modified envirosuit for a couple credits extra in cost? I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
December 2, 2011 - 3:07pm | I did some more research about volcanoes and came up with some more stuff. Volcanic Ash: is extremely abrasive, similar to finely crushed window glass, mildly corrosive and electrically conducive, especially when wet. Glowing Ash Clouds (pyroclastic flows): consist of an avalanche of incandescent volcanic fragments suspended on a cushion of air or expanding volcanic gas. This cloud forms from the collapse of a vertical ash eruption, from a direct blast, or is the result of the disintegration of a lava dome. Temperatures in the glowing ash cloud can reach 1000 degrees C and velocities of 150 KM/hr. I took this from the Lake Nyos wikipedia to help illustrate that info I posted earlier about Carbon Monoxide. "On August 21, 1986, possibly triggered by a landslide, Lake Nyos suddenly emitted a large cloud of C02 which suffocated 1,700 people and 3,500 livestock in nearby towns and villages." What happens is, C02 can build up in volcanic areas and violently explode out of the ground or, as in the case of the lake scenario above, bubble up through water and into the surrounding villages, killing as it goes. It can also slowly seep out of the ground and collect in depressions and low-lying areas where a person or animal can wander in and suddenly drop dead from C02 poisoning. If you're walking along and you see a depression in the ground with a few dead animals here and there...avoid it. Since C02 is odorless, tasteless and colorless and since it doesn't initially cause any irritation, by the time you find that you can't breath, you're basically already dead. I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you! |
 December 2, 2011 - 3:48pm | Just as an aside, the carbon monoxide "dead zones" should only pose a hinderance in the form of an area to detour around and not as a deadly peril for any reasonably equiped Star Frontiers party. After all the 'oxy' in Toxy-Rad gauge stand for oxygen (as well as the ox doubling with the T for toxins). One of the three main functions of the gauge (and the first one listed in its description) is to detect low oygen levels before they get too sever. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
December 2, 2011 - 4:18pm | I forgot about the environment suit, it should work fine for acid but volcanic terrain would shred it. An asbestos suit would be needed to get close to lava- likely to only be bright along by a volcanologist. As to adventure ideas you can write a series of small encounter like the Warriors of White Light mod or a full up plotted adventure. One resource you should check is the Big List of RPG Plots. I'm on the phone and don't have the link handy but it turns up with a Google search. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 3, 2011 - 12:06am | I like my abstracts to be grounded in some measurable format... so that such debates can be settled in some consistent logical fashion, rather than result in a logical "because it says n+n=n, this n is not = to that n, even though both result in either this n, that n, or n undefined... net result always = n/m" loop reliance every time... so, I would still prefer ranges of measurable approximate toxicity and type mentioned with an abstractified; Non, Mild, Strong , Severe, isDead... Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
