 September 25, 2011 - 10:03pm | Reading through the other threads here, Imperial Lord obviously believes that they nuked the place and moved on. I'm going to argue differently. The sathar seem to have two modus operandi, either enslave lesser races or obliterate more advanced one. The attack on Pale and New Pale was the first opening shot in the battle with the Frontier. They have ideas of the strength of the Frontier but really don't know any details so for this attack, they don't really know if they are dealing with an obliterate or enslave scenario. Thus the first attack is going to be to subjugate and enslave the capture planet. This is advantageous for a couple of reasons. First if it turns out the battle with the Frontier is to enslave, they didn't waste a perfectly good population base of slaves. Second, and much more importantly, by capturing the planet instead of just nuking it, they gain a population base to study and a chance to raid the technology of the races they are fighting. It's too much of an intelligence source to pass up and just obliterate on the first pass. Plus that meshes more with Jedi's idea that they have a stagnant tech base and this provides a way to grab new tech. So the attack on Pale and New Pale won't be to obliterate but rather to capture. That isn't to say it won't be ruthless. They will attack in overwelming force and take complete control of the system. The the outside world, the system might as well have been obliterated as it will drop off the grid. A few survivors will make it out but not much. And and they will be bearing tales of the viscous attacks at the start of the fighting where it looked like the plan was obliteration as they overwhelmed the defenses. Of course, when the Sathar see they are losing and pull out of Pale, there is nothing to stop them from executing the obliteration option then. They are being forced to leave, no reason to let the enemy have useful resources back. So on the pull out they would probably blow everything up, just not at the beginning of the operation. Anyway, I think that is more reasonable operation mode for the attack. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 September 26, 2011 - 10:34am | The ravaging is interpretive. It seems like your just saying when they nuked the planet, not that it didn't happen. I wonder if the sathar really didn't know much before showing up, you would think they did some recon. |
September 26, 2011 - 11:24am | Yes, the ravaging of Pale and New Pale has to happen, I'm just arguing as to the when (and possibly the how). There is no doubt that by the time they left, the population had been
decimated and the population centers destroyed. It had to happen
according to the time line. I just think it makes more sense for them to do it on the withdrawl rather than the attack. The Sathar are supposed to be intelligent, devious, and crafty as well as ruthless. I think that the intelligent side would win out in the first contact and the system would be captured rather than just destroyed to allow the Sathar to study the Frontier races and technology and "know thy enemy". It also allows them to collect slaves and possibly new technology. I'm also sure they did recon beforehand, but they didn't have a completely populated and developed planet to play with at their leisure. It's one thing to have reports from probes and maybe even a few spies. It's completely different to have hands-on and face-to-face interactions. Also, remember that this attack on Truane's Star is the first contact of the Frontier with the Sathar, any surviellence is probably going to have been limited up to this point. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
September 26, 2011 - 1:36pm | Excellent points. Do you think during this initial contact the sathar confiscated space liners and citizens, brought them to a hidden base, institutionalized them then released them back into the populace? Interesting idea even in the modern Frontier. Perhaps Sector 6 is hot on the trail of citizen abductions and hires the PC's to help investigate. |
September 26, 2011 - 3:08pm | That's probably how they got any initial spies. Abduct a ship in the outer system, hypnotize the crew and then release them. Although it would probably be with small mining ships or such that could go missing for a while and not be missed. I don't think that they would have tried to take a whole passenger liner, it would be quickly missed if gone for any significant amount of time. And I'm sure that after the initial occupation, many inhabitants were shipped off-world back to other sathar controlled planets and bases for study and use as slave labor. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 September 26, 2011 - 4:34pm | nuking isn't as bad as the scare of the '70s and '80's made it out to be; the German Cruiser, Prince William, was nuked not once but twice during nuclear detonation test in the pacific and survive the second test- It was in the process of being towed to be deconned and studied when it suddenly capsized and went down. Even cities nuked during WW2 are inhabitated now. That is not to start a flame war in the thread but honestly, whats a few nukes? really? Even if the worms nuked and moved on it isn't the end of the world. RE: New Pale- not sure if its "Volturnus Connection" that tells us that New Pale was bypassed by the sathar or if it was in Zebs but I always assumed that it was because it was a light population ag world that the worms just didn't look to close, or the giant dinosaurs skeeved them out or they just figured that it would fall into their lap latter on. In all likelihood they're interested in industry not ag. Back to nukes though, do they have to nuke? They came in to Truane's Star and refugees fled by the ship load to Dixon's star. they then moved simultaneously on both Dixons Star and Cassidine. I assume that they landed troops and left troop ships and support ships in Truane's star before spliting their fleet and moving on. Moragaine wipes out one fleet in an ambush in Cassidine then stops the other fleet cold in Prengular though it costs him his life. Meanwhile back at the ranch some low prestige sathar who was left behind holding coats at Truane's star only has transports and support ships with possibly a small force of screening elements and lacks the ability to really nuke Pale. He's had word of the fleet that moved on Capella being wiped out and he's considering pulling out but knows that all the juice tech they're finding on Pale will make him king deffication especially since a bunch of his arrogant superiors just got vaporized making room for advancement. In the end he gets caught and loses most of his ships. Ground operations to mop up require years more. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 26, 2011 - 4:53pm | KH Campaign book and Zeb's Guide both say that the Sathar attacked Pale and New Pale. They got both of them. I agree on the nukes. A few may have been used to see how frontier architecture stood up to them but most of the destruction on Pale and New Pale would have been more of the conventional variety. At least that's my take on it. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 September 27, 2011 - 10:38am | Nuking is no big deal? |
September 27, 2011 - 1:28pm | Besides kinetic strikes are cheap and easier and as destructive as a nuke without the radiation. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 28, 2011 - 10:27am | Looking into nukes I found this: http://io9.com/5844668/what-would-really-happen-if-you-nuked-a-volcano?popular=true it doesn't really nix Imperial Lords arguement nor support mine but I thought it was interesting if obliquely supportive of my oppinion. enjoy the rabbit trail. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
