 January 26, 2011 - 7:20pm | According to canon material, Leotus XIX has ruled for 37 years and will soon pass the crown to his heir (Leotia XX). The Valentine family has ruled for nearly 400 years. Dramune Run, which most will agree follows shortly after the events of WoWW, happens in fy:61. Safe to say WoWW occurs in fy:60 at the earliest based on that premise. 19 rulers in 400 years averages out to roughly 21 years per term, so Leotus has far exceeded the average. Either way, "nearly 400 years" prior to fy:60 takes us back to about pf:340. Obviously this conflicts with Zeb's time line which indicates White Light being founded in pf:60, even if you were to place WoWW in fy:111 (the end of Zeb's time line) it still doesn't work. This is why I say we should either disregard Zeb's or simply start our time line at fy:1 with the formation of the UPF and merely offer some pre-UPF history to it, either way we must disregard Zeb's pre-UPF stuff. I propose that if we are to regard Zeb's time line at all, it would be events that may correlate with fy:1+ Zeb's time line at best. EDITED ---> Refer to: 2 HISTORY. Current time line, subject to further editing and additions: 1 f.y. (Federation Year) The United Planetary Federation, a mutual defense organization, is established. All worlds of the Frontier, expecting another Sathar invasion, immediately join. Under UPF authority, Spacefleet becomes a permanent defensive force. 19 f.y. Prince Leotus Valentine XIX assumes the crown from his father, Leotus XVIII. Significant funding for the recently founded Medical Services Organization is donated by the Valentine family. 25 f.y. Princess Leotia Valentine XX is born, the ruling Valentines are unable to have any further children. Being the sole heir to Clarion's throne, Leotus initiates the Royal Secret Service comprised of loyal subjects dedicated to personally protecting the Royal Family. 31 f.y. The Demilitarization Act is passed by parliament. Strict firearm bans are enacted on the planet's surface, and similar policies are enforced on Clarion Station...although with minimal success considering government boundaries and space charter. The Council of Worlds overules the King and permits small arms such as pistols and melee weapons to be carried on the station. 44-48 f.y. Streel violates the Demilitarization Act numerous times by attempting to smuggle firearms to the surface of Clarion. By f.y.48 a resulting 20 year ban is enacted against Streel, prohibiting them from the surface. Due to UPF charter, the megacorp is still permitted to maintain an office on Clarion Station. 50 f.y. Commander Delrooca retires after 50 years of service to the Crown. Duke David Arconium of Hiatia (mH), a senior advisor to Delrooca, is promoted to the rank of Commander in the Clarion Royal Marines. His first act is convincing Leotus to acquire a frigate to supplement the CRM space militia, the CMS Leo arrives near the end of the year. 53 f.y. Lieutenant Rogena Delrooca is given the helm of the CMS Leo, and is promoted to the rank of Captain the following year. A brief period of civil unrest erupts from this promotion, citing political reasons for such rapid advancement. Meanwhile, Jr. Lt. Vincent Shirrah is awarded the vacated helm of the Falcon. 56 f.y. The CMS Osprey, with a new batch of fresh recruits that replaced members lost during a manifest inspection gone wrong, earns something of a reputation with the Royal Marines. They manage to discover a cache of Streel furbished Clarion-bound weapons being smuggled in a small freighter, stop a cybernetically controlled ship on a collision course with Clarion Station, assist the fleet with routing the Planoran Pirates, thwart an attempted capture by the Sather who turned out to have infiltrated the CRM ranks via agent Maxxer Tabbe, and further assist in thwarting an inbound group of Sathar destroyers...all in less than a year. Two more assault scouts are acquired from UPF Space Fleet, the Flitter and Swallow. King Leotus is outraged by the discovery of Streel backing the Planoran pirates, and he extends Streel's ban by another 20 years. 64 f.y. Rhanda Klast is promoted to the rank of Lieutenant and begins her career as a senior tactician under Commander Arconium, while at the same time being awarded captainship of the Osprey. 65 f.y. Leotus XXI is born, the first of three children from Queen Leotia in line for the crown. Leotia commissions a six unit squadron of star fighters to assist the Royal Marines in their space efforts. "Raptor Squadron" becomes an immediately respected group. 68 f.y. Lt. Kriz'l Qill is recruited into Klast's tacticians. 75 f.y. Queen Leotia XX can no longer count on the 70-80% support her father enjoyed from parliament. The Conservative Association and the Crown Royalist parties still support her but they only account for 44%. The Socialist and various independant parties have long opposed the crown’s policies while the New Beings party often sells its votes to the highest bidder. She’s been forced to build a coalition government out of theCrown Royalists, Conservative Association, a few independants (but not all or any entire party), and oddly enough...the Liberation Party. Though theLiberation Party is against the monarchy as its core belief the head of the party, Jonnus Slike (mH) often “releases members to vote their conscience” --- which is political speak for "go along with the Queen and Prime Minister". In return the Prime Minister was forced to give the Liberation Party one of his cabinet seats. 83 f.y. Rhanda Klast is offered the lead position in Avenger Squadron during Strike Force NOVA's stay in White Light. Feeling her service in protecting the system (and Frontier as well) from the worms supercedes any local issues, she accepts the position. She is given the helm of the assault scout UPFS Captain Federation, named after a patriotic holo-comic super hero. In her absence, Kriz'k Qill is promoted to Captain and helms the Osprey. 85 f.y. Queen Leotia XX commissions a squadron of heavy fighters to help defend Clarion during the Sathar War, as well as pushing considerations for the addition of a minelayer. With the war effort in full swing and available supplies & services being what they are, she opts for a lower budget converted cargo conatiner that can be affixed to the Dark Shadow. 90 f.y. The second Sathar War ends. Leotia XXII is born on the day the war ends, the first of five daughters to Prince Leotus XXI. No sons are born. 95 f.y. Queen Leotia XX accepts the first batch of applicants to the Royal Guard and Royal Marines from the Rim worlds. 100 f.y. Numerous spacers originating from Clarion join the Age of Adventure within the Rim. The Osprey is retired, demilitarized, and transported to the surface to serve as a museum attraction in Valentina. |
 January 26, 2011 - 7:37pm | Dude you are so walking into a mine field- I tried to get people to hash out a new time line and it turned into a dump on Zebs fest with next to nill in constructive ideas. Thats why I went with just writing something that I could live with hence my time line series of articles. Since I dont believe that there is a date given in the module we could say that the 20 or so rulers could be congruent with FY111. the last entry in the zebs timeline Also in wrestling with the time line I came to a realization that not everything can be made to fit and thus I'm not committed to 400 years of rule PS: you might get around the timeline issue by writing a story history with out dates like in my time line article I wrote a story history then wrote a matching time line. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 26, 2011 - 8:10pm | I'll take a peek at your stuff. The thing is, it really doesn't have to blend with Zeb's at all. What we're after is something that can be made into its own campaign without ever leaving the system. Well, there are a few occasions where a jump is needed (Council of Worlds meeting etc) but for the most part an entire campaign can be built on the heels of the CRM. I remember the time line discussion...the problem is that Zeb's pretty much ignored the entire existing material when it was penned. That's why I like to refer to it as 2e Star Frontiers...it's canon, just not canon to KH and AD Star Frontiers. |
January 26, 2011 - 9:12pm | At shadow: then my suggestion stands- do a story history and not fuss with dates- its easier to read than a time line and if well written its fun to read too. I suspect that you wont be able to use all of my stuff as I went with humans originating form Earth and I crafted a reason for enlightened modern Sci Fi humans to adopt a monarchy to explain the origin of the monarchy and the royal marines. also I tried to get 400 years by playing with the orbital period of the planet vs the GST calender (got obars help with that) but couldn't fudge that in either. but otherwise you are welcome to rip me off for ideas. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 27, 2011 - 2:55pm | Ultimately, I'd like to have both...a written history and a brief timeline. 81 f.y. The Royal Marines thwart a small detachment of Sathar warships as they pass through the system on their way to Madderly's Star. No losses are suffered, but all craft incur mild to serious amounts of damage with the frigate Leo limping home on but a single operational drive and few other functional systems. Aside from a few stragglers, there is little worm activity in the system but Clarion Station and Fortress Redoubt serve as a ready station for SpaceFleet vessels throughout most of the war.
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January 27, 2011 - 6:23am | not bad- I would not give the heir to the throne the XXI designation as no one will know if he will live to be crowned or if for some other reason a sibling gets crowned. also I liked my POPS version of the Planaron asteroid after the event of WoWW module as I figured that the crown would want to do something so that they dont have to repeat history with it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 27, 2011 - 3:01pm | The module listed Leotus' daughter as Leotia XX, the suffix would be given to offspring sharing the same name regardless of royalty. For example, I was named after my father with the suffix "Junior", if I had a son and named him after me (or a daughter and named appropriately if possible...I just can't fathom what a feminine version of Richard would be though...mayby "Ricki"?) it would have the suffix "III". Had I been named otherwise and had a son named after my father, it would have been "II" instead of Junior (or again, modified feminine name of the same). It's a strange bit of etiquette, but that's the "rules" as I understand it. I modified the time line to include "(crown pending)" , and added a blurb about retiring the Osprey in fy100. |
January 27, 2011 - 3:10pm | issue 16 SFman Frontier History section it type in 036 for the page to go directly there. and because of the add on tables at the end you have to use a 0 at the front of the number or you go to the tables. Incidently the real name of the article is "Origin of the Species" - a cute little play off of Darwin. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 27, 2011 - 4:33pm | The module listed Leotus' daughter as Leotia XX, the suffix would be given to offspring sharing the same name regardless of royalty. For example, I was named after my father with the suffix "Junior", if I had a son and named him after me (or a daughter and named appropriately if possible...I just can't fathom what a feminine version of Richard would be though...mayby "Ricki"?) it would have the suffix "III". Had I been named otherwise and had a son named after my father, it would have been "II" instead of Junior (or again, modified feminine name of the same). It's a strange bit of etiquette, but that's the "rules" as I understand it. I modified the time line to include "(crown pending)" , and added a blurb about retiring the Osprey in fy100. I believe the closest feminine form for Richard would be Regina. Something else to consider: The Leotine dynasty is only the latest Clarionite royal house(per SFKH:0). We have to expand the timeline a bit to accomodate those ruling houses as well. The timeline I started working on in the SFN Wiki had Clarion colonized in 899 pf, tho that may be too far out for some people. (BTW, in my original campaign, Clarion was the first Human colony in the Frontier). If we chuck Zeb's altogether, and not extend the colonization of Frontier space too far in pre-Fed times, there might be a workable compromise...the Clarionite royalty were originally the royalty of some other Human colony, or maybe even a certain nation on Earth, who had to flee along with their people for parts unknown; they kept the monarchy going during the time their people were aboard the ships of the refugee fleet, and when they unpacked on Clarion, they simply continued with the way things were. So, the Leotines ruled for four centuries, just that most of that time was when their people were homeless refugees wandering through space. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
January 27, 2011 - 5:10pm | That would probably it better in a preceding historic section. The timeline simply serves as a guide point for the campaign, as in anything pertinent to WoWW and beyond. Everything before that is "trivial" but certainly worth mentioning, and I do like the idea of predating the Leotine line as such. Sadly, this worthless pile of mule dung powered by WIndows ME is not pdf capable. I'll have to run my SFman disc on my wife's laptop someday to bone up on jedion's goods. |
January 27, 2011 - 5:13pm | You should be able to view PDFs, even with Microsoft's Embarassment. What version is your Adopey Acrobat Reader? " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
January 27, 2011 - 5:16pm | Judging by the way I can't open pdf files, I'd say this is equipped with Adobe version 0.0 It might have an acrobat reader of some sort. Trust me, it'll just be easier if I use the other 'puter  |
January 27, 2011 - 5:26pm | Judging by the way I can't open pdf files, I'd say this is equipped with Adobe version 0.0 It might have an acrobat reader of some sort. Trust me, it'll just be easier if I use the other 'puter Okay. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
January 27, 2011 - 5:44pm | Shadow check your email for a word doc version I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 31, 2011 - 2:36pm | I didn't want my first post in the project to be a quibble, but re: Rhanda Klast-- 20+ years for her to be promoted to Captain, and assigned as Captain to the Osprey? ISTR that she's the senior officer aboard after Tabbe's defection, and may or may not acceed to that position temporarily, but that's a long time in grade for someone who (presumably) performs ably in her role. I get that you are thinking of slow promotion like in the Napoleonic-period navies, where there are few ranks, and it takes time and perhaps political favors to get promoted, but really, 20 years? Having said that, I'm off to go reread the module, to refresh myself on her position on the ship. |
January 31, 2011 - 3:18pm | Well, it's but a rough draft and rather open at that... Klast doesn't keep command for long. By the Beyond the Frontier trilogy of modules, she is back to second fiddle again under Lt. Gregor Dentin (a la SF/KH:3 Face of the Enemy). As far as the actual rank of Captain (as opposed to ship captain), they are few and far between as the WoWW module suggests. But I agree, 23 years is a bit of a stretch for assuming captainship of the Osprey. Maybe I need to move the Liberty point of the time line back some more? |
 January 31, 2011 - 9:44pm | Remember the life spans of the core four races. They all live longer than we do even when one converts galactic standard years to Earth years. This may make more established militarys harder to advance in. Retirement doesn't come at 65 but somewhere beyond 100. -iggy |
February 1, 2011 - 10:10am | OK, I re-read things, and I had forgotten there are only 3 (rank) Captains in the RM, so I have no argument with that being roughly a career-end rank. Competition for those promotions must be pretty fierce, even accounting for the fact there aren't that many Lieutenants. However, since there are only 3 Captains, her attaining that rank while skipper of the Osprey may be the problem. Maybe she spent some time in other assignments between the two points, including a stint as Osprey's captain. Twenty years on the same ship sounds kinda boring? |
February 6, 2011 - 3:55pm | As much as I am loathe to source Zeb's timeline, their placement of the Mahg mar incident is close enough to the Dramune Run that it works here too. I made some revisions: 19 f.y. Prince Leotus Valentine XIX assumes the crown from his father, Leotus XVIII. Significant funding for the recently founded Medical Services Organization is donated by the Valentine family.
51 f.y. A band of space pirates inhabits the asteroid "Planora" and begins construction of a station within. They grow in strength within the following years, and by 56fy they have a small fleet of ships at their disposal. Royal Strategists believe these pirates received funding from Streel to disrupt shipping traffic to Clarion Station.
77 f.y. A militant group occupies the deserted asteroid Planora. A generous fleet of warships is assembled, threatening to blockade the planet Clarion. Leotia gears up by having the entire fleet of the Clarion Royal Marines on full alert at all times, while pleading with the Council of Worlds for assistance. For reasons unknown, the militant group quietly departs before the C.O.W. arrives at a decision to honor Clarion's call for help.
81 f.y. The Royal Marines thwart a small detachment of Sathar warships as they pass through the system on their way to Madderly's Star. No losses are suffered, but all craft incur mild to serious amounts of damage with the frigate Leo limping home on but a single operational drive and few other functional systems. Aside from a few stragglers, there is little worm activity in the system but Clarion Station and Fortress Redoubt serve as a ready station for SpaceFleet vessels throughout most of the war. 83 f.y. Rhanda Klast is offered the lead position in Avenger Squadron during Strike Force NOVA's stay in White Light. Feeling her service in protecting the system (and Frontier as well) from the worms supercedes any local issues, she accepts. She is given the helm of the assault scout UPFS Captain Federation, named after a patriotic holo-comic super hero. In her absence, Kriz'k Qill is promoted to Captain and helms the Osprey. 85 f.y. Prince Leotus XXI is handed the crown, the youngest of the Valentine line to become King. He rules for nearly 30 years. His first act is to commission a squadron of heavy fighters to help defend Clarion during the Sathar War, as well as considerations for a minelayer. With the war effort in full swing and available supplies and services being what they are, he opts for a lower budget converted cargo conatiner that can be affixed to the Dark Shadow.
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February 15, 2011 - 11:42pm | I did a little more rehashing with the time line (see original post). I could really use some pre-WoWW filler (fy-01 to 55)...granted I'm still catching up on some of the other historic entries in the project here. |
November 13, 2017 - 2:44pm | My only issue with the time line is the founding of Land Fleet: with SW1 involving the occupation of Laco and Truane's Star (we can assume both Pale and New Pale) that the mopping up of SW1 was land battles on 3 planets. Perhaps not huge land battles but certainly significant and would have triggered the formation of Land Fleet at that time. I assume that the Royal Guard was the elite force and got their day to shine first and foremost on Laco but the newly organized let's call them "federal" ground units would have to be the true point of origin for Ground Fleet. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 13, 2017 - 6:50pm | How does Zeb's place Landfleet into their timeline? I agree, its formation should probably happen before SW2. Perhaps have that occur in f.y.60, just prior to Dramune Run? |
November 13, 2017 - 7:26pm | How does Zeb's place Landfleet into their timeline? I agree, its formation should probably happen before SW2. Perhaps have that occur in f.y.60, just prior to Dramune Run?
Need to check when I get home. There must be a mention of Ground Fleet- I think it's during that convoluted SW2 section of the time line where it goes into landbased opperations on Sathar control Ed world's not sure if it mentions when it was founded but I suspect that we'll have to go w/ SW1 era founding as that is the most logical. Maybe the ground units were summoned up as part of the 2nd Common Muster but as operations we're wrapping up on Pale and New Pale it was obvious they needed to organize a separate Ground Fleet from the new fledgling Space Fleet- something the Royal Guard endorsed heartily or instigated by being prickly about taking orders from some jumped up newly minted Space Fleet flag officer who didn't know didly about ground opperations and would have gotten beings needlessly killed. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 14, 2017 - 9:22am | 82 f.y. The UPF established the United Planetary Federation Landfleet, the first interplanetary army raised on the Froniter. Thousands of Humma and Osakar arrive from the Rim and elnlist, hoping to stop the Sathar menace before it invades their homeworlds. Many die for the Frontier, but sill more stay and become citizens after the war. Zeb's has the SWII running from 80-90 f.y. to this is 2 years after the war starts. I agree, however, that it probably was really formed at the same time as Spacefleet after the founding of the UPF even if it was really just a token force for decades. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 November 14, 2017 - 7:37pm | I am coming in late to this chat, but I decided White Light System was colonized a very long time but “discovered” by others way latter, I also think several families have ruled. It is also where I am putting an old religion... but the “discovery” of the colony is how I resolved the Zebs conflict. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
November 14, 2017 - 9:32pm | So what's a good insert for the Landfleet blurb, somewhere between f.y. 60-70 so that it predates SW2? |
 November 15, 2017 - 4:11am | Forming an army requires a good reason. The US has done this cycle several times because of its distrust of a standing army. While there were many state units when it came to a federal army to fight large scale wars such as the Revolution, the Civil War (both sides), WWI and WWII they could not really begin until fighting had already begun. There is also the time required to gather, organize, equip, train and get the army into the fight. During WWII the US declared war on Japan on Dec 8 and Germany on Dec 11 but major operations did not begin against Japan until mid 1942 and the first big operation against Germany in North Africa was not until Nov 8 1942. Given the time lag in travel and communications in the Frontier and trying to integrate seven different races into a unified fighting force we should see a slow build up with most units in the beginning being long established units from one planet quickly made UPF units and not see full Landfleet units until later in the war. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
November 15, 2017 - 7:53am | Historically that makes sense. So we should leave it as it stands at the outbreak of SW2. Maybe bump it back a year to 80 from 81 at the very least. |
November 15, 2017 - 8:05am | With the ill define stasis field technology in the Frontier (KHs) I very much think that they will have equipment ready to go and stored in bunkers. Preserved and pristine but 60 years old when SW2 breaks out. The belief being that equipment that sat in a stasis field for 60 years suffers no I'll effects. A Space Fleet (Ground) maintains these caches of equipment and will be split off of Space Fleet when SW2 breaks out. First response units will be Royal Guard, and other planetary armies. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 15, 2017 - 3:57pm | Maybe. Pearl Harbour defenders were shooting ammo older than the soldiers on Dec 7. If you look at the equipment at the start of any war much of it looks like it was left over from the previous war. Also many not frontline units get older or less expensive to make equipment. Case in point the US WWII rifle featured in most movies is the M1 Garrand. But many more M1 Carbines were manufactured and issued, just to rear echleon troops. The M16 is iconic to the Vietnam War but initially troops used the M1 Garrand until the M16 was brought in. Still many troops still used the M1. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
November 19, 2017 - 3:40pm | I agree the government tends to be archaic... bases were still using operators to plug calls Way longer than most folks realize. Crazy mixed bag of technology, so weapons and equipment often sucks at the beginning of a conflict, until newer better stuff can get into the field... I remember the Congress & the Pentagon was all upset about families, friends and soldiers getting better equipment shipped to them in the field then was issued... no one wanted to die or have a friend or family member die because paper pushers and desk jockeys can’t get it together enough to get top quality equipment to the troops... Just saying I remember people were buying stuff on the net and shipping to troops like body armor, scopes, and all sorts of things... so figure government does not change and neglects stuff like updating equipment, cuts back on the military. Let us face reality anyone who actually does work gets their budgets cut in favor of political pet projects that get politicians votes or money for elections in real life so rpg life is the same. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
