 December 10, 2010 - 9:57am | Hey All, Was just reading through some of the Dragon articles, and they had some ships that were HS: 2 that had a Laser Cannon installed, and in the KH book, it's listed as MHS: 5. Did I miss something? Did I put Deuterium in my Ion Drive instead of Hydrogen? No, wait, It's that cloud of space wasps I flew through. I'm still picking those off of my windshield. You can't argue with the invincibly ignorant. - William F. Buckley |
 December 10, 2010 - 10:12am | I think you're referring to the Thruster-class privateer, which originially had an LC installed. Later versions of the Thruster were armed with a pod laser and three assault rockets. A corvette(HS=4) has an LC installed, but pays for this(and five extra HP)with reduced performance. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
December 10, 2010 - 10:25am | Yea, I think that was it. TY for the info. I want to put a Heavy Disruptor Cannon on a Fighter! \m/. You can't argue with the invincibly ignorant. - William F. Buckley |
December 10, 2010 - 10:32am | You could...it's just according to KH rules...wait a minute, if you use KH rules, it would only lose a negative 0.91 points of ADF/MR(assuming you use the formula for arming civ ships), which, rounded off, means the fighter would gain either a point of MR or ADF. Maybe my math's screwed up. I'm only on my first cup of coffee, after all. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
 December 10, 2010 - 6:24pm | Issue 11, Military Ship Design is another method of building ships for Star Frontiers. I have an Excel sheet that makes it simple... now which project did I post that in? Here are some helpful links; Refer to: Military Ship Design - Issue 11 jaguar posted some Excel stuff as well, Online Ship Generator Downloads section. |
 December 12, 2010 - 2:58pm | For what it's worth, even by KH rules an AR system with three rockets shouldn't be able to go on the MHS:1 fighter. In short, it's 40 cubic meters worth of "stuff" being installed on a 31 cubic meter craft. Although the book does say something along the lines of "techniques of miniturization allow for many possibilities" concerning warships. Which should not carry over to civilian craft like the Thruster class privateer (or even a pirate corvette, which as noted suffers performance penalties so that actually floats) |
 December 12, 2010 - 5:51pm | Yep, the rules for ship design are for civilian craft, while military craft are in no ways bound to such rules. Basically, they made the stats for the warships, then they made the ship building rules with no regards for each other - if not for the houserules for military ship building, it would be like playing classic (pre-Clan) Battletech with mostly Omni-mechs, not knowing why they dont mesh-up well to the standard Battlemech Construction rules, nor have the full stats and game-notes to help reverse-engineer them. |
December 14, 2010 - 2:18am | The irony of it all (MHS:5 LC on a HS:4 corvette) is you can swap in two MHS:1 pod laser systems, chew up the same amount of space (40 cubic meters whether it's a LC or PLx2), inflict the same amount of damage (2d10 versus 2 shots @ 1d10 each), and arguably --- at least by adhering to MHS rules --- not incur performance penalties. |
December 19, 2010 - 8:22pm | The irony of it all (MHS:5 LC on a HS:4 corvette) is you can swap in two MHS:1 pod laser systems, chew up the same amount of space (40 cubic meters whether it's a LC or PLx2), inflict the same amount of damage (2d10 versus 2 shots @ 1d10 each), and arguably --- at least by adhering to MHS rules --- not incur performance penalties. I know I'm off topic now, but that's exactly why I think pod lasers aren't right. With the specs as they are, you could take the 3 assault rockets and launcher off a fighter, replace them with pod lasers and now make 4 attacks at 1d10 each instead of your single rocket attack. I think they should be Nerf'd. It should either have limited ammo, or have damage reduced to 1d5, or both. That's just my opinion. I'll shut up now. |
December 19, 2010 - 10:05pm | Let's get off topic! ;-) I use SEU drums for smaller attack craft. Like rockets, fighters need to dock with a carrier to rearm and refuel. Larger ships have SEU as well but tend to carry a boat load of drums, also generators aboard ships are able to charge the drums after a battle. Screens use SEU drums as well - works like the E-shield from Dragon magazine. I've also introduced the concept of DR (damage reduction). Simply reduce the amount of DR from each successful hit. HS1 ----- DR0 HS3-6 --- DR5 HS7-10 -- DR10 HS11+ --- DR15 For instance; a HS1 fighter loaded with pod-lasers at 1d10 damage per hit. A successful hit on a HS8 ship would reduce the damage by 10 for each hit. Hits are not cumulative. You'll need a larger weapon to do more than scratch the surface. :-) There's more to it (I re-wrote Knight Hawks...twice?) but just wanted to ramble on. Some day over the rainbow you will find a PDF/post/project about it. |
December 20, 2010 - 2:24am | I know I'm off topic now, but that's exactly why I think pod lasers aren't right. With the specs as they are, you could take the 3 assault rockets and launcher off a fighter, replace them with pod lasers and now make 4 attacks at 1d10 each instead of your single rocket attack. I think they should be Nerf'd. It should either have limited ammo, or have damage reduced to 1d5, or both. That's just my opinion. I'll shut up now. Hence the debate in the "What is Canon?" thread... IIRC the Dragon/Ares/Polyhedron/whichever mag the Pod Laser article appeared in simply states the PL replaces the AR system, i.e. you can have either AR(x3) or PL(x1). I just like to get technical sometimes... Even so, the standard fighter in my game has one pod laser and one assault rocket (as in one launcher/one rocket). This permits fighter-to-fighter dogfighting as well as payload against the bigger boats. Now I wouldn't object to the assault scout swapping out its four rockets for dual pod lasers... |
December 21, 2010 - 3:02am | Nor would I, actually. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
 December 21, 2010 - 6:46am | so what are we talking about here? an assault scout with LB, and PL X4? combined with the high ADF AND MR and its shooting on both phases of the turn that could be very interesting. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 21, 2010 - 2:41pm | No, LB and PL(x2). The aforementioned four shots comes from two during the offensive phase and two more during the defensive phase (comparing it to the one offensive shot MPO weapon status of the AR). |
December 21, 2010 - 9:31pm | I'd stick all four PLs in the nose. Sides, if you're worried about imbalance, give the other side something similar. Or bigger guns. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
December 22, 2010 - 4:13am | Going by cubic meters, it's two PLs (not four)...the assault scout's AR launcher and four rockets displace 50 cubic meters (plus another 25 on the LB). The PL chews up 20 cubic meters per system (which is defined as 2-4 guns, regardless of how many guns it inflicts 1d10 points of damage though). For the sake of simplicity I just say "system" to reflect one PL's d10 worth of damage. Ergo, one gun or four it's still a single PL system that inflicts 1d10 damage. Granted none of this cubic meter swapping meshes with the "modifying spaceships" rules set forth, which is a very limited scope that merely restricts weapon swapping to battery weapons in this regard. It doesn't say anything about nixxing FF systems for battey weapons, torpedoes or seeker missiles for other systems, etc. Then again, according to canon the assault scout's LB can be freely swapped for a RB(x4)...or a MHS:5 weapon on a HS:3 ship. |
December 22, 2010 - 9:43am | I forgot, the PL is all the las cannon from the battery. Still would love to pack two PLs into the nose of an assault scout. Hmmm, an AS with an RB and PL(×2).... " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
December 22, 2010 - 3:24pm | Technically...the PL is a "clipped" set of guns from a LB, considering the range of the LB is 9 hexes to the PL's 5.  That's why in my game I permit a long ranged PL that goes the full 9 hexes that chews up 25 cubic meters (instead of 20)...same as a LB but it's a fixed FF weapon instead.Cubic meter-wise, the scout wouldn't be able to accomodate the "RB with four shots" that the rules permit --- that's 80 cubic meters to the canon scout's 75 capacity. Based on cubic meters, fun combinations I'd like to see would be an assault scout with PL & LB(x2) @ 70 cubic meters, or LB(x3) @ 75 cubic meters... And getting back to the canon modification rules, that doesn't state how many AR a civilian ship can accomodate...it just states a formula that adds up the total MHS to determine any performance penalties. That means you can equip your civilian scout ship with AR(x whatever) at no penalty, and have something that's almost as lethal as a warship scout (almost meaning you can't defend your flanks). That, or having two AR systems (meaning two launchers instead of one, thus doubling your payload and rate of fire) and still not incure any performance penalties. It's a very clunky set of rules that can still be overridden in terms of balance. By those same rules, two PL systems can be added to your civilian scout and you end up with the "imbalanced" capability of firing off four shots per combat turn (2 offense, 2 defense) compared to a fighter or assault scout's once per turn (only during the offensive move) with the AR. |
 December 28, 2010 - 12:09am | can someone please link the original pod laser article? The bombing starts in five minutes. |
December 28, 2010 - 2:30pm | www.starfrontiers.com |
December 28, 2010 - 9:09pm | Thank you Shadow Shack. I just reread the article.... it does not say how many cubic meters the PL is. where does that number come from? I always assumed that since it it was MHS 1 that it was inter-changeable with Assault Rockets. Wich is why I am am asking. I never used it because it sounded over powered. in other words You could replace 3 AR with 3 PL and instead of doing 6 to 24 damage per attack, you get three defensive d10 attacks and three more moving player d10 attacks totalling 6 to 60 points of damage per turn on a HS1 fighter... Seemed silly to me.... but if you get 1 gun instead of three assault rockets that would be more balanced. But the KH remastered book has them at 10 cubic meters same as Assault rockets... so Where does the 20 come from? Is that a house rule in your campain? I am just asking because I would not allow them as they are listed in KH remastered but if someone can site a source that keeps it balanced I would use them. The bombing starts in five minutes. |
December 29, 2010 - 1:46pm | The "2-4 guns" seems to confuse a lot of people. It's the "one system consisting of 2-4 guns each" that causes the 1d10 of damage (once per offensive phase and once per defensive phase, assuming a target crosses your nose anyways). It makes sense to have it interchange completely with the fighter's AR system (3 rockets and a launcher, although that displaces as much space as the MHS:5 laser cannon...), at least from a balance standpoint. Still, the canon rules say nothing about how many assault rockets you can cram into one ship, all we have is 3 + launcher for a fighter and 4 + launcher for an assault scout (surely it's not one launcher + one rocket times 3 or 4...that would be 60-80 cubic meters, more than enough space for any other weapon system you can think of!). And, as I mentioned earlier, the modification rules make no mention of it either. The only definition we do get is that the AR equipped ship must have at least a MR of 4 and you can only fire one rocke per turn, which I define as being one launcher with a magazine of 3 or 4 rockets (depending on which canon warship). So all we have is "balance"...which starts falling apart when you analyze it (re: MHS:1 ARx3 = MHS:5 LC in terms of canon volume, or two 10m launchers with one 10m rocket each = the same 40 cubic meters for firing both in the same turn). |
January 1, 2011 - 12:27pm | Ah, OK I think I get it..... so each individual "gun" does like max 2.5 damage and you got 4 of them in 1 pod, wich takes up as much room as a full array of assault rockets on the fighter? On another note, I don't see any rule that states you can only have 1 Forward Fireing canon like LC or DC. Just because the example ships in the premade Fleets are set up that way. The build rules don't even comment. >---- \ / ~~~~LC \-------------------/ / Hull LB ~~~~LC /-------------------\ \ / \~~~~LC >---- My House rule on the MHS thing. Because the pirate corvette is the only example and is given in Warriors of Whitelight That Laser cannon MHS 5 on the size 4 hull caused it to lose an MR or ADF regardless of weather or not the the numbers add up. Simply because the weapon was too big The bombing starts in five minutes. |
January 1, 2011 - 3:46pm | Ah, OK I think I get it..... so each individual "gun" does like max 2.5 damage and you got 4 of them in 1 pod Right, the 2-4 guns would individually cause a fraction of the d10 worth of damage. Rather than rolling idividual hit scores for each, you roll once and it causes d10 worth of damage combined on whatever shots actually hit. So roleplaying, you could say for 1-2 points of damage that only one of the guns connected, but if they score 8-10 points you can exclaim "All guns hit and the enemy fighter expands into a cloud of hot gas and debris!!!" And technically, they don't have to be concentrated in one pod either. One on each wingtip and one on each side of the fuselage would still have the same effect at 10,000-50,000km wich takes up as much room as a full array of assault rockets on the fighter That could be assumed based on the article. Again, it doesn't specify exactly how much space it takes up, it meely suggests that the system replaces the assault rockets. Realistically if it chewed up the same space (again, 40 cubic meters) then it's a full on MHS:5 laser cannon. But I can see in the interest of balance to have just one or the other. Still, it doesn't offer anything for the possibility of arming assault scouts as such. That's why I ended up declaring 20 cubic meters. I really wanted to do 25 for the sake of balance, but that's what a laser battery displaces (and it shoots almost twice as far as the pod laser) On another note, I don't see any rule that states you can only have 1 Forward Fireing canon like LC or DC. Just because the example ships in the premade Fleets are set up that way. The build rules don't even comment. Yep, I never bought into a one-FF system only rule either (not that there's one mentioned). Some of my bigger warships and dreadnaughts sport both a LC and DC. Because the pirate corvette is the only example and is given in Warriors of Whitelight That Laser cannon MHS 5 on the size 4 hull caused it to lose an MR or ADF regardless of weather or not the the numbers add up. Simply because the weapon was too big Yep. Even going by the "modifying ships" ruling (adding the MHS and considering the HS) it would have better performance due to fewer penalties. Seems to me, the writers opted to further penalize the performance since it was a larger MHS than HS weapon, which I would agree with. Of course that doesn't mean characters can rush out and design their own HS:3-4 ships with laser cannons either. I would, however, permit players that capture a corvette to swap out the LC for something more "MHS" appropriate and possibly recovering one ADF or MR point. |
