 April 21, 2009 - 2:29pm | I crafted a simple MS Excel 2003 ship-build system based off this article. (Needs a little bit of work to add the reinforced hull option.) I'm so use to seeing the KH ship stats that when I built a HS 9 Scurvy Doog I was shocked to see all the goodies I could add. I'm going to be playing this ship against a few KH standard ships using the Tom's vector submission. |
 April 21, 2009 - 5:36pm | You need to spend your remaining MHS points on rockets for your two rocket battery launchers. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
April 21, 2009 - 6:41pm | Shhhhhhh. *nobody* knows that. |
April 21, 2009 - 7:03pm | Little questions: 1. What project sould this download be maintained at? Deck Plans 2. Ships built with this system; I believe the would overpower any KH standard build from the Advanced boardgame. But ships built with this system should be able to balance eachother out. Anyone disagree? |
April 21, 2009 - 8:39pm | I"d put it under Online Ship Generator or Ships of the Frontier. We should create a section in the document section of the Ships of the Frontier project to hold descriptions of ships made with this system, I'm just not sure what to call it. Actually, all of the standard ships can be made with this system. The difference is that you skimped on HP and defenses compared to the standard ships so you got more weapons. I'd do the same (at least as far as defensive screens go) as I've never used anything other than RH and ICMs and occasionally a masking screen. The canon ships are just balanced offensively and defensively. BTW you have a couple of problems with your ship design. First, Assault Rockets can only be added to ship that has a MR of 4 or higher. Since your HS 9 ship has a MR of 3, you can't add an AR launcher. Next, you can only have one FF weapon (AR, LC, DC) on a ship. (I don't think that last is actually a specified rule but it is definintely the spirit of the system.) However, this is fixed by the first problem. Finally, on a HS 9 vessel, you can't have a proton battery that has a MHS of 10. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
April 21, 2009 - 9:00pm | Here's my entry: Battle Cruiser HS: 9 ADF/MR: 3/3 HP: 72 DCR: 94 Weapons: LC LBx3 EBx2 RBx4 Tx4 Defenses: RH ICMx16 Costs: LC - 5 LB - 3x3 = 9 EB - 6x3 = 12 RB - 5+4x1 =9 T - 5+4x1 = 9 RH - 1 ICM - 5+4x1 = 9 60% HP bonus 6x3=18 Total cost: 72 MHS points Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 April 22, 2009 - 5:27am | Thats pretty slick, mate. How can I clear data to start a new ship? The reflective Hull is missing from your drop box. How is ADF/MR determined? Just stay with the baseline from the KnightHawks hull size chart? Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
April 22, 2009 - 5:56am | Ok, here is one that is a bit over the top, but what the heck.. Torpedo Assault Boat HS: 5 ADF/MR: 3/3 HP: 35 DCR: 70 Weapons: LBx2 Tx4 Tx4 Defenses: RH ICMx16 Costs: LB - 2x3 = 6 T - 5+4x1 = 9 T - 5+4x1 = 9 RH - 1 ICM - 5+4x1 = 9 60% HP bonus 6x1=6 Total cost: 40 MHS points yes, there are 2 torpedo launchers with 4 torps each. I got the idea for multiple launchers last year when I was messing around with the article from Dragon magazine that had charts for how much space a ship had and how much room weapons took up. I was converting/calculating KH ships, but when I got to the bigger ships, I had lots of room left over, so I added extra launchers and turrets. Came up with some interesting battleships and cruisers. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
April 22, 2009 - 9:41am | @Terl, Adam's article specifically mentions ships that appeared in Dragon that ignore MHS requirements, I did the same. KH ships are cylinder's, perhaps that design limits the number of FF weapons? And lastly I never really understood the MR requirement. I had fun building the sheet and used it with the KH Vector rules so ignored KH canon. Ideally we could make another Excel sheet that followed canon and wouldn't allow you to pick certain combinations. @self, I'm considering doing a follow up article on the Military Designs and Vector rules for Issue 12. I'm surprised we didn't publish a Knight Hawks scenario....  @Community, Let's see some more SFCT's (Star Frontiers Cool Tools). |
April 22, 2009 - 6:51am | Ya know... Bill has a way to export Excel and spit out a stat block, we could do all the ships from Pirrah's article and have a book of KH ships.  I'm just saying.... |
 April 22, 2009 - 2:42pm | Sounds good to me. Let's leave the spreadsheet and Adam's system as is. Sides, canon's in the eye of the beholder anyway. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
April 22, 2009 - 4:29pm | And, now for something completely different Pugilist-class war cruiser HS: 9 ADF/MR: 5/3(using two Pion "C" engines from SFMan #7) HP: 45 DCR: 94 Weapons: LC(×6) LB(x4), T(x12) Defenses: RH, MS(LB used for point defense) Costs: LC: 5×6=30 LB: 3x4 = 12 T: (5×2)+(12×1)=22 MS:4+(1×1)=5 RH:1 Total cost: 70 MHS points Not canon, and definitely unbalanced(as am I, tee, hee, hee), but it's only a minor detail to build ships which will equal it in firepower. (It's also based on a bigger hull than written in the stories, but I was only playing around anyway. Who knows, I might introduce this baby in Space Rats....) "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
April 22, 2009 - 4:28pm | Now, if we can make MHS points and Hull Points equal, then we can simplify things a bit. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
April 22, 2009 - 5:41pm | Now, if we can make MHS points and Hull Points equal, then we can simplify things a bit. Can you explain? :-) |
 April 25, 2009 - 1:34am | Ack! Don't you know Ship Design spreadsheets are Evil? Embedding logic & data in a single file V & H Lookups (=$G60*(IF(ISNA(VLOOKUP($A60;MiscSystemsInfo;6;0));0;VLOOKUP($A60;MiscSystemsInfo;6;0)))*(IF(IF(ISNA(VLOOKUP($A60;MiscSystemsInfo;8;0));0;VLOOKUP($A60;MiscSystemsInfo;8;0))=1;$B$2;1)) ) Evil, I say. Evil! ;-) I did start a semi-canon one a while back (well, canon compared to KH:V, anyways), incorporating stuff from Shadow Shack, KH:INT, etc. But then I got really frustrated with MHS and trying to come up with some semi-deterministic way to determine ADF and MR..... What I came up with is that for the firepower of a stock Frigate, I could do it cheaper on HS:6 with better ADF than with HS:5 (adding of Engines to HS:5 to get the ADF up...) Even Ttried using some of the 'Efficiency Rating' stuff from 'Expanded Knighthawks Ship Design" by Kveldulf, but, well, not deterministic as I wanted it (I want efficiency based on engine, not Hull Size...) Did I mention that I hate MHS? ;-) Space, Mass, Power ; although that gets complex quick. Maybe just Space (M3) available for military hardware, similar to frontiers of design. 20% under max, +1 ADF. +2 ADF if 40% under. If over rated M3 for the Hull Size, reduce ADF. -1 for the first .1-10% over M3, then -2 for next 11-15% over, -4 for the next 16-20% over... And Fighters are really 15 meters long, not 10. |
April 25, 2009 - 6:14pm | Now, if we can make MHS points and Hull Points equal, then we can simplify things a bit. Can you explain? :-) Sure, grasshopper. If an item is MHS 6, it adds six Hull Points to the ship. Total the Hull Points of all the items added, you have the total Hull Points of the ship. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 3, 2009 - 7:36am | besides the rules say otherwise what would stop a ship builder from mounting bigger engines than the rules call for on a ship to get more boost? I suppose we'd have to enforce a limit on ADF stating that and ADF of 5 equals 5 gs and 5 or 6 gs is the max most races could sustain before passing out. and MRs may or may not be affected to the possitive by bigger engines which could lead to some really high ADF freighters and that can't manuever for beans. Maybe I'm just farting out the airlock on this as I haven't needed to focus on the KH rules for my campaign. but wouldn't a system of ship construction that computes mass and says you need X amount of power to move that mass for a value of Y which would let a cheap freight hauler calculate the smallest engines to get his ships moving but someone looking for greater speed would say we need 3X for this ship so that is 4 type A or 2 type B. (no restrictions on #engines - you want 12 go right ahead have 12, hope you enjoy overhauling them) As for ships landing on planets the rule would be a ship or shuttle designed to land like a plane could have either 0 or 2 type A engine struts (0 would be for chemical engine in tail and 2 would be for any engine type incorporated into the wings of the vehicle) nothing bigger than type a as the weight and stress involve would most likely break the wing off eventually. Mzimum hull size is 3. For ships landing on planets tail first expending lots of fuel could be up to hull size 5 and would require at least 3-4 engine struts space equi-distant around a cylindrical body. they could be up to type B engines and the ship would require a significant amount of mass dedicated to landing gear to stablize the whole thing with the mass going up exponentially to the point that HS 5 is the largest hull this is viable with. I suppose we'd also have to keep track of escape velocities based off the mass of the planet landed on and make sure that the value of thrust X from the engines is enough to make the escape velocity Staying within the volume of a particular Hull is only really important for ships landing on a planet where areodynamics come into play or where balance of the mass by the landing gear for a tail first landing craft is important. As for ships that never land you can just keep adding stuff to them but they certainly are more suseptable to damage in combat so military hulls might keep the whole hull rating thing or civilian ships have a hull that they can exceed but whats outside the main hull is going to get trashed at high ADF when dust and particles hit it or in combat. Just some random gas...... I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 3, 2009 - 9:49am | Rick Robinson has this neat downloadable Excel spreadsheet which can calculate masses, accelerations and all that good stuff for starships. Here's the link: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/lyonesse/observatory.htm Go down to to Starship Specification Spreadsheet. Another place you should definitely check out is the Atomic Rockets website(there's a link to it on this site, in, where else, the Links tab). Go to the engines section to get a list of engines, specfic impulses, exhaust speeds, all that(you'll need the specific impulse for Rick's worksheet above). Both sites are real eye-openers, which is why they're both in my Favorites. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 3, 2009 - 12:51pm | Sounds like KnightHawks: Vector: http://www.starfrontiers.org/ (Looks like you have to right-click on the spreadsheet and select download in order to download) Has a spreadsheet for design, tracking mass, space, thrust, power. BTW, the reason behind my comment above that design spreadsheets are evil. The formula's are just murder, and by embedding data and code, if a code change is needed, it needs to be made everywhere.... Definitely not cannon, but.... And maybe I'll post what I had done for semi-cannon ships; not the prettiest, but does seem to do the trick (provides 'override' values to get what one wants...) (Done: thread at http://starfrontiers.us/node/3631 ) Edit: made links links, minor text updates |
May 3, 2009 - 11:52am | Might want to fix the link in your spreadsheet thread, jag, you can't click on it. Rick's sheet ain't exactly for KH, just ideas when you write your own SF, but you should be able to plug in canon KH weapon masses/volumes(assume 1 cu. meter of volume is equal to 1 metric ton of mass, which, is the SI definition as well, more or less), or even KHV weapon masses, and you should have something useable, if not precisely canon. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 3, 2009 - 12:54pm | I think per Shadow Shacks comments, a section under the 'Online Ship Generator' for ships of each ruleset, as yeah, ships from one ruleset generally aren't balanced against ships from other ruleset.... |
