 December 6, 2010 - 3:18pm | Ok, I was discussing some minature designs with Woot and Jedion a couple of days ago. I am in discussion with a rapid prototyping company that can convert my designs into plastic 3d objects. Well here is the good news, most of my Dark Tempest models convert with complete compatibility and at reasonable costs to produce. Bad News, my new designs created for the classic SFKH starship design project are not compatible the models are too complicated with way too many polygons for the machine to 3d print into plastic. So, I will attempt to dumb them down over the next couple of months to get a low polygon version that they can convert. I will keep everyone posted but at least some of my projects can be built. |
 January 6, 2011 - 5:29pm | I just received confirmation this morning that the product just shipped from the company in France, we should have them late next week or mid week the following week. Youch!! you ordered from France?!? What did they want for shipping??? I tried to order a replacement card for a Confrontation miniature (I got a great deal on ebay but the card was in French) and it was going to cost me over $20 for the company to send a stat card the size of a common playing card. I would have ordered recast Grenadier minis from Italy by the boat load in instead of trying to get originals off ebay if it hadn't felt like I was being hosed on shipping charges. Man I hope the shipping doesn't drive your overhead up too far. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 6, 2011 - 7:33pm | The shipping is reasonable, obviously the fewer the quantity I order the less cost effective the shipping is but for my initial order shipping was $6 for standard delivery. Now if I order a lot of 12 minatures that $6 of shipping works out to .50 per minature which is really not bad at all. As the quantity go up the shipping cost goes down per unit. |
January 15, 2011 - 7:06pm | Okay, still waiting, I discovered that the recent weather problems in Europe are slowing international mail deliveries. So far it has been eight days since my order shipped. This is important to keep in mind, because when you place an order this is the same amout of time it will be for the items to arrive. If everyone is serious about ordering I will pre-order some items so that they are here it the U.S. for direct delivery via US mail to you. Remember the more you order the lower the shipping because it will be spread out across the sum of all the units. So obviously ordering 1 will be a lot more expensive then ordering 5. In the future I will try to order quantities of the different units so that they can be packaged together so you will not have to order 5 of the same model unless you want to. However this all contingently dependent on interest. I have neither the time or money to invest in product that no one wants to buy. I know everyone will want to see the photos of the prototypes first to see the quality of the model, completely understandable. The Timeon Class Frigate model is 2.7cm long so its not going to be very big and im sure the details will be somewhat plain but distiguishable. I had to remove any feature that had negative three dimensional space as the modeling machine can not create that in smaller models. I know a few tricks to help that and did a little 3d magic to fill in some of the negative spaces so that the computer can interpret it. I am so looking forward to seeing this project become a physical reality. |
January 15, 2011 - 7:13pm | Here is an image of the flight stands that I will include with each model unit. I like the clear acryllic plastic as you can see the map through it. However, if you don't like em you can always puchase an another type, make your own, or paint them flat black like the old school ones. They cost about .45 a piece and will be included in the unit price of each model. |
January 15, 2011 - 7:41pm | Please take a moment to look through the Classic SFKH Starship project Download Page and place your vote for which frigate model we should do first (Contingent on how the quality looks on the prototype). You can choose: Timeon Class, Dixon Class, Perdition Class, Or White Light Class. For sathar the choice is a little easier, its the raider class, primarily because the negative space in the Chimera Class cannot be corrected so the computer will not be able to that model. However, if there is a huge request for it I can change the engine struts so that the computer can handle them for a mini. |
 January 18, 2011 - 1:34pm | AZ, I can setup a poll on the front page if you want. |
January 20, 2011 - 1:33pm | Go vote! :-) |
January 20, 2011 - 5:37pm | The prototypes arrived today. The minis are basically 15mm. and here is my assesment. |
January 20, 2011 - 7:32pm | RE: Texture- textures can be a good thing as it gives paint something to "grip" I have a friend who soaks his 15mm Napoleanic miniatures in white vinegar to pit the metal. Once the metal is pitted he skips the priming step and goes straight to painting and ends with clear enamel sealer I've tried it but but I dont use this technique anymore. It works but good primer also grips the metal just fine so I dont bother with this. Re: the antennae and the laser cannon- if you have a pin vice drill, these details can be added by drilling and super glueing in a wire (likely the thinnest drill and wire available will work best for this size mini. I'm of two thoughts yet as to this line of minis: Do I want to convert to smaller ship sizes? or would I want to bug the designer to 10-15mm figures of the fighter craft and just buy those (those size fighters will match my existing collection of ships better). I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 20, 2011 - 7:42pm | they are actually growing on me the more I look at them |
January 20, 2011 - 7:55pm | well Jedion, since I am the designer, I am the one you will have to bug  Anyway, I am considering doing two lines now. I think the almost Chit sized 15mm may have a certain charm and use for small game tables. Second I think I will also do some mini's at the larger scale of 25-30mm. The most important question is will people be interested in buying them in either size. Now its important to note that the photos are a little blurry and hard to focus because the white of the plastic is messing with the cameras macro setting and auto focus. |
January 20, 2011 - 8:12pm | Here is what the cost would be for the timeon class frigate for SF.us members: $3.50 each with a minimum order of 3 minatures. This includes flight stands for each model. So that is $10.50 for three 15mm timeon class Frigates with flight stands. The larger format of 25-30mm will cost more but I will wait to get the prototypes before offering a price. But here is the most important point, before I sink anymore money into this I need to know if people are serious about these. Since I have the modeling software I can make as many as I want for myself till the cows come home. However, when it comes to you the consumer I really need to know if you believe that this project should continue and or if I am just spinning my tires on this. |
January 20, 2011 - 10:43pm | Well I can paint a few and do the photos (my avatar is a painted mini photographed inside a piece of space terrain with the camera physically inside the the dome with the mini- so I think I can produce a decent enough photograph and post the pic here. perhaps we should talk off the forums, I can paint and base a few and give you a candid review of them as a miniature. Do you do paypal? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 20, 2011 - 11:18pm | I appreciate the offer, however it may have to wait a little bit. I don't have extra prototypes to send out for painting and photography. I have two models I plan on painting one and leaving the other untouched. I will work making some better photos when I have the time to sit down and work on setting the lighting and background properly. I just wanted to snap off a few shots so that the community can get a feel for what the actual size is. I have to admit that I am very impressed with the detail for as small as the items are. I checked the price on 5cm and it jumps the price considerably. There may just not be any getting around the fact that these models will be expensive vanity pieces its just not an economy project. |
 January 21, 2011 - 2:42am | All miniature gaming pieces are expensive vanity pieces if you consider paper cut outs usually work just as well. Still from what I see they look pretty good and can be used in other game systems as well. Still would like a clearer picture if possible. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
January 21, 2011 - 11:58am | All miniature gaming pieces are expensive vanity pieces if you consider paper cut outs usually work just as well. Still from what I see they look pretty good and can be used in other game systems as well. Still would like a clearer picture if possible. It would be fair to say we all have our little vanities. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 21, 2011 - 5:01pm | I coated two of the prototypes with a little pencil graphite so that the intense white of the plastic wouldn't mess with the camera's autofocus and would absorb alittle more of the ambient lite. Now mind you this not paint so it wont bring out the features but does lift them a little so they are more visible. |
January 21, 2011 - 5:06pm | okay, just discovered one huge advantage these solid platic models have over lead, they are super strong compared to lead and not as brittle as PVC. You can handle these models by the engine nacelles and thruster nossils without any fear of breaking them. |
January 25, 2011 - 5:42pm | Listening to the chirp of the crickets and whistling of the wind I have to admit that I am a little disappointed in the underwhelming support on this project. I was hoping for a little more interest before i sunk any more of my own money into this. Come-on people seven votes, including my own on which model to prototype next. I know in this economy people have to hold onto their wallets a little tighter but without a larger demand I cannot get the prices any lower. If I have order these one at a time at $6.00 shipping then my selling prices will not be cheap. I was just online at the Games Workshop Site and their saw that just one heroic character model human sized at 25mm was selling for 11.50 before shipping for a single plastic mini. I have heard the arguments about how the 15mm would force folks to buy their entire fleet over again and that people want 25mm compatible mini's of similar size to the original lead figures. No problem, the price is a little higher for a 5cm frigate but it certainly can be done and where else are you going to get your hands on an original custom star frontiers knight hawks inspired mini? |
January 26, 2011 - 9:57am | AZ, before I comment, what are your expectations for; 1.) The SF community 2.) The Dark Tempest setting for FrontierSpace(TM) |
January 26, 2011 - 4:33pm | Love it, hate it, want to buy it? which ones do we want made? What's seems like a fair price. Is anyone interested in continuing the 15mm line, are people willing to pay double for a 25mm line? I know a few people who have shown interest in this project from the start and I do so appreciate the participation and input. However, there are alot of people who still havent voted or showed any interest (i.e. comments, votes, participation). These are important because we arent just talking about something IP or time like art. We are talking about something physical and costs money to produce. I have money to invest in this project but none to waste so votes and participation which lets me know how to proceed is important. Frontierspace: I already have a clear direction on how to proceede with mini's for FS but it would be nice to get SFKH on track so I can decide if we are going to make the mini's 15 or 25mmm. I don't mind doing both lines and doing a 15mm line does have an advantage when using the space map verses a gaming table. Not to mention, my initial tests for a 25mm battleship at around 8cm is going to cost over $30.00 just for the model (which maybe worth it for some). However a battleship at 15mm around 5 to 6cm is going to cost a lot less to construct. |
January 26, 2011 - 7:02pm | The Sathar Raider Class Frigate has been uploaded to the modeling site and is ready for prototyping |
January 26, 2011 - 8:54pm | AZ, How well does paint hold on the mini's? Are they difficult to paint - what level of mini's painter do you need to be? Is there a list of models we can order and do they need to be all the same type (if more than one model)? |
January 26, 2011 - 8:57pm | Personally, I dont think you need differing classes, most companies issue one FF and all the class changes are shown on paper during play. Keeps cost and production problems down. I hadn't voted yet as I needed to run down the images before I do. Also concerning support: since I have a satisfactorly large collection in a diffecent scale I was not enthused with the idea of converting to a whole new scale. But being a big fan of miniatures I wanted to support anyone trying to create SF miniatures. I just cant make a judgement call on these till I handle one and paint it. I expect you to offer them at a price that lets you make some money yet doesn't chop the wallet too bad. If I might make a suggestion since support is underwhelming, you should stake a claim in the miniatures market that no one else is covering. like miniatures of SF vehicles sized for the port loren map. you might even be able to do 1/4" tiles of people in that scale and sell them in bags of 10 or whatever. I would however not do all the vehicles as 1/4" but adjust them to the Car Wars playing piece sizes. ground and hover cycles are 1/4" cars are 1/4" by 1/2 tractor trailor rigs are bigger (I'd have to dig out the Car Wars counters to get proper measurements. You'd be making things at a size that that you've determined is cost effective selling handfuls at $X amount and you'd have a nitch market that would cross over into people trying to resurrect car wars or use these for the wargaming table. (note that there are penty of manufacturers who do the hard military hardware for micro armor so you'd want to focus on the distinctly SF vehicles and branch out as the market dictates. Just a thought. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 26, 2011 - 9:13pm | According to the manufacturer any paint or primer that works on plastic will work here. They mention polyeurathane spray paints but I think that is for larger pieces with less attention to detail. The 15mm miniatures look like they will be a challenge to paint detail. I would recommend a light primer coat, then your base color, add details such as thruster / engine glow with a toothpick tip, extremely fine brush, or the tip of a pin. a nice black, dark grey, or metlaic dry brushing across the minature will bring out many of the sublte details and give the paint job a lived in look. Finally add a few accents with either metalics or a little color with the pin tip or fine brush. You will probably need a magnigying glass which you can pick up at any dollar store for cheap. I wouldnt try anything spectacular with the 15mm figures. Difficulty: Experienced The 25mm figures will be about the same difficulty as the original SFKH mini's I put a light dusting of graphite pencil lead on two of the mini's so that they could be seen better in the photos and the graphite adhered to the plastic nicely. A little soap and water took care of the residual but the slippery graphite stuck nicely. There will be a list soon. Right now you can order the 15mm Timeon and 15mm FS:DT expedition class. You will absolutely be able to mix and match products. At this time the best deal I can offer for the 15mm is three frigates with flight stands at $10.50. The more products that get ordered on a single order the better because it reduces the shipping cost. For example if you order one only the shipping is $6.00 plus domestic charges of about .75 so thats 6.75 each. However if we order 10 thats .68 cents each. twenty is about .35each model. So you can see the price reduces the more we buy. |
