 April 5, 2010 - 3:29pm | Here's a thread to dissuss articles in issue 14 of the Star Frontiersman Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 April 11, 2010 - 12:47am | The biggest draw back for cybernetics is what the brain actually loses. Alot of folks forget about this. It was covered in cyberpunk as cyberpsycosis. The brain starts to act weird when it loses the bio feed back/ natural input of stimuli that cybernetic parts don't have. The first AD police Anime did a wonderful job showing how a full body conversion drove the officer insane. the only organic parts left of him was his brain and tongue, so the only input his brain got was from taste, he ended up going crazy and slaughtering fellow officers, because he could not feel anything, the brain was going through a big withdraw from losing 95% of the stimuli it loves. I think this is a MAJOR drawback and should be inserted into every rule system. Have it based so that when you lose X amount of your body to cybernetics, you have a % chance of gaining some sort of mental quirk that would manifest some way. You replace a eye, and it could lead to you suffering from some weird remorse/ melencoly syndrome where certain shades of natural sun light trigger a deep mornfull memory that cause you to lose track and become catatonic for short periods of time. if this happens during combat, it could lead to very dangerous things! So How and why? the new eye supplies the computer in your wetware to get tons of info, but the brain misses the visual stimuli from having two eyes, so when it gets triggered by a sunset or color range with the one, it kicks into a loop of memories to get the feeling again. causing the pc to just stop and lose interest cause he's dealing with some deep personal matters that make everything seems trivial. The human body is a wonderful creation and does strange things that we have yet to scratch the surface on. an idea. Art Gold is for the mistress-silver for the maid-copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.But Iron-Cold Iron- is master of them all |
 April 11, 2010 - 6:59am | Art Mic makes an excellent point, though I disagree about the eye (dated a girl with a glass eye- it really had no effect on her) but the whole phantom pain of a missing limb is well documented and there have been experiments into fooling the brain to think that the limb is still there and reduce phantom pain for the patient. I would scale the draw back such that the quotient of drawback for a whole leg/ arm replacement is quite high, just a hand/foot would be lower and just something that is implanted the lowest. might even need a d10 table of problems from rejection, bio-degeneration of surrounding biological systems, phantom pain- same game mechanic for over 1/2 STA loss but random and doubles when 1/2 STA loss and phantom pain occurs at the same time, cyber phycosis, reality disconnect- slow to react to environmental stimuli- like phantom pain -10 to RS for random time periods, etc. I like the whole ongoing replacement and turn up rule Infact I wrote a cyber article for this issue as well but it was a lot thinner on gadgets as I was concerned with not changing the flavor of SF setting with it and I focused more on adventure ideas as well. Woot wisely only published rogues article as side by side mine would have looked lamed. Though one of the limiting factors I included was that certain implants required certain levels of medic skill to install much like a Technician must be level 2 to fly a jetcopter (I wrote it for the SF community at large even though I no longer use the AD skill rules any more) and my item descriptions included x amount of time before retunement, refurbishment, or replacement. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 April 11, 2010 - 8:01am | I avoided the whole cyberpsychosis idea (though that is an element I do like in cyberpunk and other games) simply to keep the rules light (it was already quite a long article, and one of the benchmarks of AD rules is the rules-light nature of the game). I don't think a missing eye or missing limb that becomes replaced by prosthetics would technically qualify as "psychosis" though I know certain psychological and psychosomatic side-effects do exist - I think those can be role-played where appropriate. The real "cyberpsychosis" effect should be handled differently, in a more extreme and sci-fi manner. I request that anyone interested write a follow-up article detailing options for cyberpsychosis and how to implement in the game!! I'd love such an article. It would be great if it included some plot hooks and story ideas... perhaps an NPC or two. I didn't do any of that simply because of article length... and I like leaving some hooks open for follow-up articles. Anyone wanna tackle a cyberbionics revisited article? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
 April 11, 2010 - 11:09am | Bill, At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
April 11, 2010 - 12:16pm | I didn't do any of that simply because of article length... and I like leaving some hooks open for follow-up articles. Anyone wanna tackle a cyberbionics revisited article? I was thinking to revisit my article and deal with side effects of implants and maybe expand the adventure Ideas that I presented. I was also thinking along the line of a cyber physco score with implants rated with a % of a problem. Basically each implant has a % (anti shock would be real small like 1-3%) the first time a character gets an implant they roll on that % for a problem. The also add the % to there CP score and next time they get an implant its % is added to the CP score and then the roll is made after the surgery. At some point it pretty much becomes probable that they will have a complication. thus making for a real soul searching decision to implant another set of cyber ware. Yet the table would have varied complications form infection to rejection- some could be easily dealt with (infection) but rejection would require the removal of the implant. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 April 11, 2010 - 2:42pm | Yes I found the prices of the cyberbionics to be beyond normal acquisition. Some were 100,000 Credts. "I could almost buy my own ship for that much..." Even the simplest cybernetics are 2,000 Cr. a piece. Since Bill's cyberbionics nicely complements my own cybernetcs article (few overlapping or contradictory rules and few overlapping equipment), I'm going to go ahead and submit mine. After reading it, I dedided that I'm going to include Bill's cybernetics into my own table, as there are some features, such as racial compatibility that I have in my article. I might vary some of the costs from Bill's article. Perhaps I'll put in a reason for the costs variances, so that Bill's article is still largely, if not wholely, compatible with mine. As a note, my article will be fully playable on its own, though having little discussion of the same matters as Bill's. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
April 11, 2010 - 2:52pm | I'm with bill. I don't think cyberpsychosis is in the spirit of the rules-lite system of Star Frontiers, and as yet, there is no research to support the concept of cyberpsychosis, so I think it it an unnecessary concern at this point. I think Bill was considerably generous in the effects of his cyberbionics, thus the costs. For me, the best way to control the power of cybernetics is through the very abilities they grant, and perhaps relying a little more upon damage rules to make cybernetics more vulnerable. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
April 11, 2010 - 3:04pm | Yeah - I leaned towards the pricy... But this was to infer the cutting-edge nature of the cybernetics industry. If you prefer to make less expensive cyberbionics that are also more vulnerable to specific damage, failure, or maintenance concerns then you can do so and it still works with my prices... my prices simply reflect a more cutting-edge higher-feature less-susceptable-to-damage version of the implants. :-) 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
 April 11, 2010 - 3:04pm | Gill Implants - To get anywhere near the amount of oxygen for a human body, a good portion of the gill system must be external; I feel that the text points to an internal system. What math are you using to validate the claim that the fictional futuristic Frontier can't have implants that are completely internal and can convert sufficient oxygen? :-)I was calculating the amount of dissolved oxygen within water (temp variable) and the amount required to sustain a human body ( I then considered a force flow system to increase the amount of oxygen available) - anyway, all this is unnecessary as I came across this article:- http://www.isracast.com/article.aspx?id=63 Needless to say Idon't have a problem with your gill implants now! |
April 11, 2010 - 3:41pm | A thread about "discussing" the articles in issue 14 has mostly been about "complaining" lol... so I want to take a moment to post something I know everyone agrees with but sometimes people don't post in public... I just wanted to post and say to w00t and everyone else involved: Great issue! It is full of sci-fi goodness. I enjoyed all the articles you published - I read them all. I like the length - it's not too long and not too short. Seems like you left some material for next issue already! I never could do that, I always loved stocking each issue with everything I had because, in all honesty, it took so long for me to get all the art I wanted/needed that I had so much material by then it all just flowed in nicely. But I think each issue since I stopped being the leader of the 'zine has been better and better. I'm impressed by and thankful for your efforts. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
April 11, 2010 - 4:10pm | Yes I found the prices of the cyberbionics to be beyond normal acquisition. Some were 100,000 Credts. "I could almost buy my own ship for that much..." where are you buying that space ship? 100,000 will buy you a size 2 hull but only at the right construction center. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 11, 2010 - 4:43pm | Yes I found the prices of the cyberbionics to be beyond normal acquisition. Some were 100,000 Credts. "I could almost buy my own ship for that much..." where are you buying that space ship? 100,000 will buy you a size 2 hull but only at the right construction center. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
April 11, 2010 - 6:18pm | I agree with Bill... The Star Frontiersman seems to steadily improve. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
April 11, 2010 - 6:27pm | I agree with Bill... The Star Frontiersman seems to steadily improve. and we're being recognized outside our direct community. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 11, 2010 - 6:55pm | really? who has recognized us? At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
April 11, 2010 - 7:22pm | really? who has recognized us? there was that review and interview recently and an email was shared with me from someone who's thing was Warhammer 40k and he was gushing about how our product was so good and he was glad it was out there as it was so good and usable even though he didn't play SF. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 April 11, 2010 - 9:15pm | Also, with Jedion's Mars World Station review we got kudo's from World Works. They will be giving us a shout out to their following. I really enjoy their products and would like to see more reviews. @jedion - I asked them for generic building layouts where we could add our own artwork. They don't have anything but suggested we make it and submit it as a kitbash. I would love to see our SF type art in terrain. :-) |
 April 12, 2010 - 11:48am | Geez... I take a little hiatus from the site (after one of those strained discussions)... only to return and this is the first thread I check (after reading a really great issue of SFMAN). Why publicly discuss these sorts of issues here??? Anyhow, I am glad that the topic has died down some, but come on, cant you guys learn from past issues that they never get positive results from these childish displays. These things are real gripes, but do them in private. Anyhow, I think I am done with the site overall now. Mods please just email me when new issues come out; I would really appreciate that - just so I can avoid all this drama while still receiving the good stuff. <insert witty comment here> |
April 12, 2010 - 4:53pm | Hey Smoot! You shouldn't Go. Yer cool, you should feel free to hang around here. I understand though. I've got one foot out the door myself. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
April 12, 2010 - 6:42pm | Whatever - I'm staying. :-P Nobody is gonna keep me from my fav game, site, community. Smoot - you can check sfman.com for the next issue. I've started a "Announcement email list" that is still in testing so I'll add you to that as well but there is no guarantee you will be informed. The webzine is announced on rpg.net, SF-UN and sf.org as well - I hope someone from those sites will contribute. heh! ;-) Haven't seen any material from you in the webzine - hope your cooking up new stuff. Just think of the webzine as separate from this site. :-) The webzine is only as good as it's content, ya know. The core group with stick together and we'll just have to deal with the children. I try not to let ppl get me down - running the webzine can get really discouraging at times. I'm thankful I have a good group, some PM's that Bill get's about the webzine and the Guest book on sfman.com |
April 12, 2010 - 6:55pm | Come on guys - no need for all this - it just adds to the drama. I agree - complaints about an issue should not be public. Our community - as small as it is - is tiny compared to the number of folks who download the 'zine. Infighting is not a good idea. I understand angry rants... everyone needs to get stuff off their chest now and then. But angry rants directed towards other site members won't help edify this community - they will only tear it down. Please - Nobody leave over this - nobody quit. Let's all have thicker skin (as opposed to the over-sensitivity we often see) and more consideration (rather than overbearing speech). I value the input of Ascent, SmootRK, w00t, jedion, elpotof, terl, all of you (I'm sure I forgot someone in that quick list - sorry)... I even miss the finer posts of Will. If one of you need to rant, send me an email. I have big shoulders and thick skin (ask w00t, who makes fun of my girth regularly, hehe). Or send an email or PM to the person who offended you... If, for instance, w00t received an email even if full of spit and vinigar, he would have apologized and re-printed the issue with an announcement to re-download, ya know? From now on threads like this will simply be deleted. I never wanted to be a moderator and police the site (I don't have time for it) and if someone else wants that role let me know, ok? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
April 12, 2010 - 8:06pm | Sorry to add to the drama. Wasn't my intent. Woot - I would appreciate being on a mail list for new editions. FYI, I am still active in producing material, only it is for another old-school endeavor at this time (Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game - a retro sort of take on the Basic/Expert D&D). I might be enticed back to SF, but I tend to avoid drama whenever possible. Life is too short you know. CCR - I agree with a harder stance on moderation. Acceptable norms of behavior should be adhered to, and threads that go astray should be locked or deleted as you propose. Not volunteering though. I already have that task on the BFRPG forums, but it is easier... we don't have these sorts of outbreaks (yet anyhow). Cheers. I will still lurk around now and then. Maybe even think up something to submit soon. <insert witty comment here> |
 April 12, 2010 - 9:03pm | I never wanted to be a moderator and police the site (I don't have time for it) and if someone else wants that role let me know, ok? I've done (and still do) plenty of forum managment. I can't say I know squat about the administration end, but if you need someone I can jump in. |
April 13, 2010 - 7:12am | SS, I'll PM you about moderation rights. et all, I think SS is a perfect fit; solid person, no non-sense and unbiased. Everyone on the site can also Report a Offensive post by using the  icon below each post. :-)(I think Bill gets these emails) |
 April 13, 2010 - 4:56pm | What?! We're going to trust Shadow Shack to moderate??!! Unheard... BWA HA HA! Oh, I almost kept a straight face. Go ahead and hand him the Ban Stick (TM)  and may he wield it in moderation (pun, unfortunately, intended)  Well, I for one won't leave simply because of a few bad apples. My preference is to try to lead by example. (Did I emphasis try enough?) I will, however, miss those who exercise that option. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
April 13, 2010 - 7:26pm | I will, however, miss those who exercise that option. One time the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Yo, Jesus, there was these guys who were preaching in your name and they weren't with us so we told them get out of here and knock that off." and Jesus said, "He that is not against me is with me." -taken from the Jedion paraphrase I think were stronger with people then with out them at this stage. When the core community numbers thousands then.... Even people from West Hell Hole OK. had their moments Look were all adults but the internet is just one of those places where people like to give vent let down their inhibitions and behave in a manner that they may or may not in RL. Ok so hit the whats new button and move on. We're stronger with you then without you and I'd be sad if about every single one of you that suggested you would leave did leave. I dont stay for the drama. I stay for great people like Shadow, Woot, Umungus, Inigo, Rummie, Georgie, etc. and for the love of the game. The way I see it we have a great community and the collaboration is awesome and If I didn't have all of you who contribute to steal inspiration off of my ideas would start to suck vacuum. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 13, 2010 - 7:45pm | Oh, I'm very biased. I like portraying yazirians and operating HS:3-6 starships in my game,anything else simply won't do! Okay maybe that's more of a preference. I'll say this much: I'm a fair guy and try to be diplomatic about every post, and those that have gotten to cyber-know me realize I have a good sense of humor too. That said a ban-stick is something I don't enjoy having to use, but when entrusted with one I do my best to respect it. My mission for any forum is to share info, enjoy the camaraderie, and have fun. Put those three into any order you see fit and it still works jsut as well.  |
 April 14, 2010 - 2:02pm | The question now is if I write something really against dralisites, you know, really really putting them in their place, is that something to be banned? Like, "Have you kicked a Dral today" or "Even a dralisite could do it." Can you be banned for anti-Dral speech? |
April 14, 2010 - 4:49pm | It depends, which planet/star system are you in? Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the sathar race or one of their minions? The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
 April 14, 2010 - 5:06pm | Hey, I really get into the dral mindset! Anti-dral speech is just seeds for jokes in dral think. Or something for a good philosophical discussion. -iggy |
