 March 8, 2010 - 4:03am | WOTC Red Box Set Found this over at Dragonsfoot, looks like a rehash of the Mentzer basic set from the 1980s. Can Star Frontiers be close behind?  Designed for 1–5 players, this boxed game contains everything needed to start playing the Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Roleplaying Game, including rules for creating heroes, advice for playing the Dungeon Master, a solo play adventure, and group-play adventure content. Learning the game has never been so easy! Several different character races (dwarf, elf, halfling, and human) and classes (cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard) are presented, along with powers for each race and class. Game components:
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 March 8, 2010 - 8:11am | Did you notice it's 4e? If they made the SF boxed set with org art I would buy (even if it was d20)! If fact I'm gonna get this! :-) |
 March 8, 2010 - 2:25pm | Didn't I decry this possibility back in the thread on WOTC dumping Star wars (before the discussion got all light hearted and political)? Die cut counters and double sided map!!!! what does that remind you of????? "There is something foul in the state of WOTC" @Woot I buy it too to see what they did with the map. and the artwork. EDIT: about the only way WOTC will weazel money out of me right now I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 March 8, 2010 - 5:51pm | Probably some re-write of the original Red-Box (that was the one I started with), WOTC can't come up with anything new so they are mining the past for the Gold that once was... Not a bad idea realy from a buisiness point of veiw. |
March 8, 2010 - 6:14pm | Did you notice it's 4e? Yep, but technically...it's probably more along the lines of 6e (Chainmail, white box/"OD&D", Holmes boxed set, Moldvay boxed set, Mentzer boxed set...)  Didn't I decry this possibility back in the thread on WOTC dumping Star wars (before the discussion got all light hearted and political)? You may have...I honestly don't recall much of the original topic there  Seriously though, I've come across numerous mentions of this but every link offered was a dead one or a link to content that had been removed. This was the first one I actually got to view. |
March 8, 2010 - 10:25pm | You know with the players hand book not having every race that you'd want to play nor every class but you have to buy hard cover book 2; I suspect that this is light on the content that your really want. so people buy it cause it has "every thing you need to play" but find out that they need to drop the cash for the hard covers. better off dropping $10 on ebay for the original box set and playing old school D&D! IMO I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 9, 2010 - 7:05am | so people buy it cause it has "every thing you need to play" but find out that they need to drop the cash for the hard covers. This is the reason I would want it. Limited races/class. :-) Simple fast and fun play. 4e is a min/max paradise. Remember the days when an elf was a class? |
March 9, 2010 - 7:24pm | Remember the days when an elf was a class? Sure do. I never found anything wrong with that LOL Seriously, my only beef with Moldvay B/X or Mentzer BEMCI was halflings topping out at LVL:8, just as a campaign was kicking into high gear. |
March 9, 2010 - 7:46pm | my only beef with Moldvay B/X or Mentzer BEMCI was halflings topping out at LVL:8, just as a campaign was kicking into high gear. bob "jester" Weber over on SF Un yahoo group had a document from some guy who had number crunched a system that would faithfull recreate all the B/X character classes except magic user which actually came out under powered by the system's numbers (go figure) plus the guy who did that system suggested a tweek for the magic user to bring him into line with the other classes without unbalancing the game. What's cool about this document is that if you wanted to have an elf that was a magic user/ thief it would create that for you and it would come out balanced against everything else. anyone interested can send me an email and I'll share the document- its pretty cool and I keep thinking to try to run a B/X campaign for old times sake if I could find the players but.... I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 March 14, 2010 - 8:05pm | I remember reading a disruption of this game, and it noted that it was a watered-down 4e game for newcomers, and the old-timers that dropped-out and what to play again, but missed the 3.x boat. (than again, I might be wrong) I have no interest whatsoever, as all the flashy fantasy Power Ranger art makes my eyes hurt! Plus, I'm really enjoying all the talented works cropping out of the old-school movement - not to mention, that I get a lot more bang for my buck with these smaller (cheaper) books, compared to the typical tome-sized (overpriced) d20/4e splat-books! |
March 14, 2010 - 8:45pm | It seems to me that they're just using the color and style of the red box to hook in some more buyers for the 4e product Pretty much what Hack master did by co-opted the art style of the late 70s D&D modules not sure how that went for them. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 March 14, 2010 - 8:51pm | The old box sets used to run $12 (US). It had everything you needed to play. Including dice. The artwork was mostly done by Elmore and it still tops anything I have seen in the d20 products. I had the Basic, Expert, Companion, and Masters rule sets. Basic and Expert were the best. I had all the Gazateers at one time as well. Looking back on it, I was so stupid to get rid of it all. IF only I would have kept all that and gotten rid of the 2nd ed AD&D crap. I keep those books around just to remind me of a stupid mistake. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
March 15, 2010 - 3:59am | I still have my original Moldvay B/X (Erol Otus cover art) and acquired the Mentzer Basic/Expert/Companion/Master sets (Larry Elmore cover art) along with a reprinting/anniversary edition of the old Holmes OD&D box set. Comparing it to my 1e AD&D hardbounds (DM Guide, Player Handbook, Monster Manual) and modules (A/G/D/Q series)...the Holmes, B/X, and B/E/C/M (/I...not sure if I really want to pursue the Immortals set) all have the simplicity and ready-to-play atmosphere that I loved with Star Frontiers. RR - you can re-acquire a lot of that stuff for minimal coin via E-Bay if condition isn't important. I've been bidding on a lot of beat-but-complete items in the past couple of years and acquiring treasures I never could get a hold of back when I was a kid. B4 - The Lost City was a recent addition and I can't get enough of that one! I have to agree...basic and expert (either version) are the best gaming tools for D&D. While the "quest for ultimate power" has a certain allure after reaching name level, I have the most fun with the level 1-6 games and honestly could play level 2-3 games until drawing my last breath, to me the greatest reward is surviving level 1! |
 March 15, 2010 - 4:25pm | Actually, I was thinking just the other day that WOTC would do well to reboot from the beginning. Things in the gaming industry have gotten way out of hand with all the heavy-handed mechanics for everything under the sun. Just "take it all back to formula". If the industry wants to survive, it's going to need to appeal to a much, much younger crowd, and to do that, they're going to have to cut the math. As it stands, roleplaying is 80% math and 20% story. It annoys me. The classics were nearly as minimal as a boardgame. The modern is like doing homework with friends. I realized the full extent of that when I recently attempted to provide a d20 version of Star Frontiers that maintained the flavor. I kept cutting back the d20 mechanics and cutting back and cutting back until there was almost nothing left, and while what resulted felt very much like Star Frontiers, it didn't feel anything like d20. That prompted me to think about what a roleback of D&D from the current d20 to the old AD&D would entail and I realized that the current state of the industry is absolutely pathetic. No wonder no matter where I turn I run into elitists declaring the current version superior. When you ask them what they do, nearly half, if not more, are math majors, in a math field, or in a high school mathletes program. That is not where I was hoping the game would go in 20 years, 20 years ago. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
March 15, 2010 - 7:18pm | I have the most fun with the level 1-6 games and honestly could play level 2-3 games until drawing my last breath, to me the greatest reward is surviving level 1! AMEN! I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 16, 2010 - 9:08am | I have the most fun with the level 1-6 games and honestly could play level 2-3 games until drawing my last breath, to me the greatest reward is surviving level 1! AMEN! Oh hell yeah!! I can agree there. On a side note, Awhile back I was pointed to a forum (that I have long lost) where some gamers working with the 3.5 d20 put a level cap in. What level could that be? Why level 6 it is. All hit point, saves, attacks, stopped at level 6 on the charts. Every so many xp after that, 1500ish maybe 2000, the player got to pick a perk. So hit points, saves, defense, spells, etc could still increase through that route. The forum had comments from the gm and several of his players. It sounded like the players really liked it. It forced a bit more teamwork and tactics. Not so many wanted to go off alone anymore. At the same time, there wasnt anymore guessing at npc levels, because they knew where the cap was at, but the perks kept it challenging. At 6th level, a single solid hit can still drop a sturdy fighter. And suddenly nobody actively hunted for dragons... It sounded like alot of fun. I never did get the chance to try it. But for a bit, there was a spark of interest in d20 D&D again for me. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
March 16, 2010 - 12:05pm | I'd like to run a fantasy campaign some time in the future but cant make up my mind on whether to go with a B/X rule set with the additional classes available from that document I got OR to use HARP (nice % system from ICE with some obvious Role master influence) Whats cool about HARP is the total control of the player over character development, lots of oportunity for tactical combat- not just a D&D whack-a-mole fest and vastly streamlined over the old Role Master OR revisit Fantasy Frontiers with the magic system I've been working up for it strongly influenced by HARP's very elegant magic system. Fantasy Frontiers and B/X D&D would be rules light to the max but HARP has a lot to offer for combat and spell use and the 1 level Magic user isn't a handicap unless the player develops him as a jack of all trades in stead of focusing on the few things he should excell at (really should maximize 1-2 things the character can do at 1st level IMO with these rules.) I honestly cant make up my mind on this. Though after finding Gygax's Mythus material from his stint at GDW I'd love to use that setting for sure. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 16, 2010 - 3:52pm | No wonder no matter where I turn I run into elitists declaring the current version superior. When you ask them what they do, nearly half, if not more, are math majors, in a math field, or in a high school mathletes program. That is not where I was hoping the game would go in 20 years, 20 years ago. I'm glad I never followed gaming into its modern genre then. Rules and work slow down a game to the point where it's only enjoyable to those that want more rules and more work. I just want to play, that's what a game is after all. I like Monopoly. There's a limted set of rules and it's easy to play. If I had to compound interest based on how many laps I traversed the board for every transaction, the game would never end. In fact, I'd pay two months worth of actual bills in the time it would take for a group of four to each make one lap around the board! Why level 6 it is. All hit point, saves, attacks, stopped at level 6 on the charts. Every so many xp after that, 1500ish maybe 2000, the player got to pick a perk. So hit points, saves, defense, spells, etc could still increase through that route. The forum had comments from the gm and several of his players. It sounded like the players really liked it. It forced a bit more teamwork and tactics. Not so many wanted to go off alone anymore. At the same time, there wasnt anymore guessing at npc levels, because they knew where the cap was at, but the perks kept it challenging. At 6th level, a single solid hit can still drop a sturdy fighter. And suddenly nobody actively hunted for dragons... It sounded like alot of fun. I never did get the chance to try it. But for a bit, there was a spark of interest in d20 D&D again for me. You should hunt down a set of the Holmes rules then. It has all the flavor of "modern" B/X or BECMI and a hint of AD&D (think about it, everything spawned from this ruleset) with a level cap of 5. Not so much a cap at the time of publishing, as it was intended to launch continued play into the realm of AD&D, but a creative DM can expand the game from there if he needs to. The big downside is it doesn't incorporate a variable weapon damage table...everything does d6 damage from throwing rocks to heaving pole axes. I honestly cant make up my mind on this. Well, it probably depends on which generation of players you want to appeal to. As Ascent mentioned, I'd want to go after the less rulesy mindset so B/X would win me over in a heartbeat. Although to be fair, I'd need to peruse the other two systems first as I have absolutely no clue how either of those would work. Suffice it to say, I doubt anything could ever pry me away from B/X D&D or SF/AD & KH... |
March 16, 2010 - 4:11pm | @ Shadow- Fantasy Frontiers is just Star Frontiers with changes and since HARP (High Adventure Role Playing) is a % system I suspect that I could port over most of the features in HARP that really appeal to me. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 16, 2010 - 6:54pm | This might be related: http://www.gamegrene.com/node/1059 apparently WOTC goes into a regular round of layoffs every christmas kind of sucky EDIT: here's a statement from the company from the 2008 layoffs: “As a company, we will continue to be the leader in entertaining the
lifestyle gamer,” said Greg Leeds, President of Wizards of the Coast.
“Re-aligning resources ensures we achieve this goal for our most
powerful brands.” While restructuring results in some job eliminations, Wizards of the
Coast is actively recruiting to fill open positions in multiple areas
of the company. “Organizational change is always difficult on those impacted,” said
Leeds. “But we will take great care in the transition, and continue to
invest in the growth of the business, specifically innovation for our
Magic and Dungeons & Dragons fans.”
Firing while they hire? thats about reducing payroll- get rid of highly paid staff and bring in new guys who start at the bottom of the ladder pay wise
and just what is a lifestyle gamer???
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 16, 2010 - 10:40pm | Firing while they hire? thats about reducing payroll- get rid of highly paid staff and bring in new guys who start at the bottom of the ladder pay wise. "It's the economy." (oh dear, now I've done it...that's how the other thread went into overdrive |
March 17, 2010 - 10:14am | Firing while they hire? thats about reducing payroll- get rid of highly paid staff and bring in new guys who start at the bottom of the ladder pay wise. "It's the economy." (oh dear, now I've done it...that's how the other thread went into overdrive Guess I'm too much of my father's son who quit a prestigious computer job 40 years ago and went back in the Air Force (during Vietnam) because he was disgusted with his company firing a man who was months from retirement so that the owner's lazy ass son could have a job. I just dont aggree with treating people like they're that and have little appreciation for companies that do- in fact if a company's actions bug me enough I will usually not give it any of my money for years on end- only recently started shopping at Pay Less shoes again and still dont give my money to Sony. But since I already shop ebay and Scribd.com for my WOTC material I dont think that I'll actually declare a formal boycot of them though I find the practice of an anual Dec layoff right before Christmas pretty crappy and have no respect for companies that do it as an anual practice (I could understand if it was once- but since it was already being called anual in 2008 then...) I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 17, 2010 - 5:08pm | Circuit City (big box electronics chain if you didn't have them on your end of the map) did the same thing back when times were good: they nixxed entire staffs and hired new employees at a lower rate. I was boycotting the chain long before that happened, and it certainly didn't inspire me to consider giving them a second chance...that and they're gone now so nothing missed. It's a pretty irrational thing to do in any economy though. But seriously, does anyone here really need another reason to hate WOTC? |
 March 18, 2010 - 9:11am | Loved the old red box. I was pissed for days when the evil mage killed that hot cleric chick with a magic missile. Then again maybe she deserved it. After all, what self respecting 1st level cleric walks into a dungeon with less than 1d4+1 hit points?! |
March 18, 2010 - 2:18pm | Guess I'm too much of my father's son who quit a prestigious computer job 40 years ago and went back in the Air Force (during Vietnam) because he was disgusted with his company firing a man who was months from retirement so that the owner's lazy ass son could have a job. I just dont aggree with treating people like they're that and have little appreciation for companies that do- in fact if a company's actions bug me enough I will usually not give it any of my money for years on end- only recently started shopping at Pay Less shoes again and still dont give my money to Sony. But since I already shop ebay and Scribd.com for my WOTC material I dont think that I'll actually declare a formal boycot of them though I find the practice of an anual Dec layoff right before Christmas pretty crappy and have no respect for companies that do it as an anual practice (I could understand if it was once- but since it was already being called anual in 2008 then...) No objection here. I concur. And since I am all about dumping the current d20 system, I don't think I have to worry about being tempted to buy a WOTC RPG product ever again, and I'm not likely to ever buy a TCG product from them either, because I don't think they'll ever commit to anything outside of Magic, so I seem to be clear of temptation all around regarding WOTC. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
March 18, 2010 - 5:00pm | Loved the old red box. I was pissed for days when the evil mage killed that hot cleric chick with a magic missile. Then again maybe she deserved it. After all, what self respecting 1st level cleric walks into a dungeon with less than 1d4+1 hit points?! Bargle must DIE!!! He gets honorable mention in the blue box as well...and if you were fortunate enough to acquire the Karameikos Gazetteer, he was specced in the Black Eagle Barony portion (MU:15 --- consider your LVL:1 fighter fortunate that Bargle doesn't stick around after killing the hot cleric chick!). |
 March 18, 2010 - 8:51pm | You guys that started with the red box are all newbies.... |
March 18, 2010 - 10:43pm | LOL, I only recently acquired it. I started with the Moldvay (Erol Otus cover art) B/X sets, and one of the guys in our original group had the Holmes set (sans chits). |
March 19, 2010 - 1:22pm | Bilygote, Never said I started with the red box...simply didnt want to show my true age in role-playing years.  I remember the first time I ever heard about D&D was when I was hanging out with some friends and they were talking about different level monks. My first thought was "why the hell are all these monkeys on different levels"? Never said I was a bright kid! |
March 19, 2010 - 8:34pm | LOL, The orignal red box was cool, who could forget Morgan Ironwolf, but I started with the Holmes set with the chits. I had to find others to play with to figure it out. Once I did, I promptly ordered a AD&D players handbook from the Sears Catalog. |
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