 November 29, 2008 - 9:24am | One thought is to stick with the classic "Player's
Book" and "Referee's Book" and add some kind of "Creature Book". But
should setting be tied to the books? Should there be a "Frontier Book"
so that - if desired - people could simply publish their own setting
"Frontier Book" using these rules? What about the idea of a "basic
game" -- or is that concept too 1980's when people didn't know what a
role-playing game was? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
 November 29, 2008 - 10:07am | Since I was one who encouraged the refereces for Players, Ref, and Critters, I shall expand on this: Players Guide - Races, Abilities, Skills, Gear, etc. Referree Guide - Running the Game, Combat & Game Play rules. I think the core setting can go in this book, but I feel it should be placed into blocks that separate it from rules, similar to any treatment of Optional rules (but marked differently than actual optional rules). Creature Guide - self explanatory Setting Guide - this could be used for outlaying a set of alternates that could be used immediately. Perhaps 3 or 4 other settings that cover some other game styles. Perhaps a Gamma World inspired one, a Cyberpunk/Shadowrun inspired, Aliens/Marines/Predator/Terminator inspired, or a Horror tinged style (Chuthulu in space or similar). One of my guiding principles is 'appeal to a larger audience'. Just trying to please former SF fans is certainly not enough... we can do that and more, if we try. <insert witty comment here> |
 November 29, 2008 - 10:21am | I'm more of a game one can run with just one book sort of guy, especially after having invested a king's ransom in GURPS, d20, and D&D. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
November 29, 2008 - 10:25am | or sections will do. I would certainly prefer to print an actual players 'book' that omits any campaign secrets... but obviously the Ref will need it all. <insert witty comment here> |
 November 29, 2008 - 11:00am | I'm more of a game one can run with just one book sort of guy, especially after having invested a king's ransom in GURPS, d20, and D&D. Agreed. The book MUST be well layed out - maybe multiple books in one? I get annoyed having to switch between TOM and KH books. |
November 29, 2008 - 11:05am | I'm more of a game one can run with just one book sort of guy, especially after having invested a king's ransom in GURPS, d20, and D&D. Agreed. The book MUST be well layed out - maybe multiple books in one? I get annoyed having to switch between TOM and KH books. That's what I was aiming for, yeah. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
November 29, 2008 - 11:12am | Okay - that all makes sense to me. Therefore, when we describe a "Player's Book" or a "Creature Book" or whatever, we're not necessarily talking about separate bindings. Let's assume they'll just be sections of one big book of sci-fi goodness! um... but I do have a suggestion for an exception: setting. The "Frontier Book" might be a separate book. That way, people could create new setting books that use the same rules but they'd decide not to use the "Frontier Book" supplied with the game. This helps the appeal for a larger audience, and allows for the possibility of future supplements in the form of other settings. D&D3E shipped with a light version of the Greyhawk setting, but most people prefered to use Forgotten Realms. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
 November 29, 2008 - 11:30am | For layout I'd propose the following: 1) Rules book/section - The core mechanics, races etc. If this is all you had you could play the game. 2) Referee book/section - Aids and suggestions for the referee. Encounter tables, generic setting ideas, etc, 3) Creature book/section - Sample creatures and races and guides for creating your own. 4) Campaign books/sections - This would contain details for different settings. Background material, maps, specific creatures, etc that provide the milieu for the campaign. You could generate one per setting. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
November 29, 2008 - 11:40am | Okay - that all makes sense to me. Therefore, when we describe a "Player's Book" or a "Creature Book" or whatever, we're not necessarily talking about separate bindings. Let's assume they'll just be sections of one big book of sci-fi goodness! um... but I do have a suggestion for an exception: setting. The "Frontier Book" might be a separate book. That way, people could create new setting books that use the same rules but they'd decide not to use the "Frontier Book" supplied with the game. This helps the appeal for a larger audience, and allows for the possibility of future supplements in the form of other settings. D&D3E shipped with a light version of the Greyhawk setting, but most people prefered to use Forgotten Realms. That suggestion would be the best way to go...a light setting or two in the core book, supplements for other campaign settings. But, how light is light, guys? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
November 29, 2008 - 12:07pm | How light is light should probably be discussed in the Settings discussion. As far as book organization goes I see three options: 1. Separate Player's, Referee's, Frontier, and Creature books (physically separate). 2. One big book, including everything into sections (Player's Section, Referee's Section, etc). 3. One big book with setting divorced from it as its own book. Which do you all prefer? I have my preference for option 1, because I like the idea of giving the player's a book that doesn't include sections specific to the Referee only. But there is some value to having an all-in-one book option. But between the two all-in-one options, I prefer 3 because I know some of you would like to make some more detailed setting books that made the campaign your own. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
November 29, 2008 - 12:41pm | I favor option 3 for the reasons Bill gave above. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
November 29, 2008 - 5:59pm | ...just thinking... Is it possible that the Book would have information the Players should not see? Should it be split between the GM book and a Players manual? |
November 29, 2008 - 6:03pm | Not that it matters, as the players are going to read the ref's info anyway.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
November 29, 2008 - 6:41pm | ...just thinking... We could always make the player's section a separate printable PDF as a service to the people :-) Or even make it a separate orderable option on lulu. Remember - it costs NOTHING to prepare a book on lulu, only to order it. So in the end, we could create a Player Book, Referee Book (containing critters and stuff too), and then a separate Setting Book. Then we can also present an all-in-one option. People can order whichever they want from lulu. As long as page numbers line up, then some people will order the all-in-one version and others will order the separate options. In today's age of distribution options, we don't have to stick with just one option :-) Right?Is it possible that the Book would have information the Players should not see? Should it be split between the GM book and a Players manual? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
November 29, 2008 - 6:52pm | Right. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 December 1, 2008 - 8:27am | Not sure where this could go.. but economy? Basically areas where they can earn monentary systems or gather or scavenge and build - sell to function in most places. From basic contracting with some comercial guide service ( like a space google service or hitch hiking guide... Spoogle vs PewPew-who?) or maybe working part time at some traditional job collecting money and having side adventures with their mates (on or off planet) Maybe have two separate areas for player use and one for setting creations for tips and ideas for a setting and integration guides with other settings to help the game referee or what ever they'll be called ( lol maybe give them a letter name instead of Q call them G. The G, some sort of cosmic narator ). |
December 1, 2008 - 4:13pm | PewPew-who? Another satisfied Yahell user, maybe? :D "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 December 2, 2008 - 7:34pm | i think the setting book should be seperate and optional. (similer to the World of Greyhawk in AD&D) Back ground on the setting should be given though just enough to make the game work their (planet were the races live ect) (insert sarcastic comeback here) |
 December 2, 2008 - 9:35pm | Well what if the books were distributed in a way that they could be placed into a binder? That way as new rules/settings get made, they can place them into the binder they have made for it. This would mean that a players book could be separate from the referees book or combined for easy use. In terms of what should be where, I think there should be a player section, referee section and a frontier space section as the "core". The first two are as they say, the frontier section is like the AD/KH rules in that it is a "light" information book with basic information on each system and planet. Just enough to push a referee along with some simple canon material in terms of politics, money, corporations, military, attitudes and the like. As things develop, each system can be given its own setting section where there is absolute detail on the planets within including several adventures or even a campaign. By putting this info in a separate section, you leave it to the players and referee to include all, some or none of this information. I have read the many discussions on what a light population actually means and if it is related to planet size or not. These extra sections would define that for people that wanted to use them. I get away from the "creature" section only becuase it would be included in the system sections or within the referee section for things that are generic to all. "I reject your reality and substitute my own."
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