 May 12, 2008 - 5:54am | Is there an explanation why the Rifle can be set higher per SEU than a pistol? I was thinking it has to-do with the size of the crystal membranes (larger diameter or longer). Laser Pistol - 1d10 per SEU, Setting 1-10 Laser Rifle - 1d10 per SEU, Setting 1-20 Heavy Laser - 1d10 per SEU, Setting 5-20 Thoughts? |
 May 12, 2008 - 6:48am | You are correct Larry. Plus there is a game balance aspect as well - less concealability and greater cost should have better firepower. |
 May 12, 2008 - 2:58pm | Just what I was about to say. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 12, 2008 - 4:10pm | Thet reflect better focusing and cooling for each weapon. Although, I had problems with the rifle range and doubled it to 800 meters for extreme range. Like this: laser rifle pb=0-20 short=21-80 medium=81-200 long=201-400 extreme=401-800 The rest I could live with. You have to take in the rate and ranges for each. I have made in game play changes but it made it way out of balance in my book. |
 May 13, 2008 - 12:45am | When you run out of SEU's the laser rifle stock can be used as a melee weapon the pistol cannot do so effectively. Yes the las pistol could be used to pistol whip someone but this should really be ref's discretion as the range you have to get close to a person to employ this attack would have some serious disadvantages. I would give the subject attempting to pistol whip some severe roll penalties unless employing a melee PSA in conjunction, and would have to sneak the attack in on the subject as few PC would just stand there while someone swung a gun at them. As for the rifle, there would be no major penalties and PC with no melee PSA would treat this weapon as a club. |
May 13, 2008 - 7:30am | Well yeah I think the pistol in melee is 1d10 damage -10 to hit and the rifle butt is 2d10 damage with -5 to hit. |
 May 13, 2008 - 3:08pm |  I like the idea of the increased range for the laser rifle, however I think I would make that a special sniper version and add a scope that would possibly give a +1 or +2 CS in Zeb's or +5 in AD to the to hit. Just a thought though. |
 May 13, 2008 - 5:40pm | Zebs Guide: Scopes: A scope mounted on any weapon improves the weapon to the next range group. For example, a scope attached to a type B (pistol) ranged weapon raises it to a type C (long pistol, short rifle). This adjustment of range includes the new Column Shift modifiers that come with the better range group. Alpha Dawn: Using a scope lets the attacker use the range modifier for the next closer range; for example, extreme range becomes long range. Telescopic sights can not be used at point blank or short range. A character using a scope can fire only one shot per turn. Check out the difference in the modifiers. I think you will be pleased. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
 May 14, 2008 - 7:13am | I think I would cause a weapons malfunction eventually if a character got in the habit of using a gun as a club. like a jam on 90-00 or something like that. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
May 14, 2008 - 3:20pm | I would think that if the PC had to go melee with his rifle it probably would be as a last resort and as long as they did not do it frequently, and unless the rifle was of inferior construction, the act would be negelgable unless the PC was hitting something stronger than the rifle, like plasti-steel or metal. Rifle butt on flesh and bone should hold up pretty well without significant damage to the rifle. If it is a combat weapon, it is made to be dropped, bounced, thrown-around, have normal weight limits held on it, and generally be rough and tumble enough for combat environments. Otherwise when private meatshield disembarked his troop carrier under fire and dropped to the ground to avoid be lased in two his rifle would smack the earth with a satisfying plastic crack and hold no more use than a paper weight. Now if we were talking about a conventional projectile weapon, a hard impact could possibly cause a jam, but all conditions in the universe i.e. catastrophic roll failure / botch would have to occur. |
May 15, 2008 - 7:34am | Rifles and pistols are not made to be bounced, dropped and thrown around. They are not neccessarily delicate, but they will not tolerate repeated bounces drops or being thrown around. I was only suggessting that if characters insist on using their weapons as clubs the weapon will eventually have problems. Very realistic in real life. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
May 15, 2008 - 8:12am | Umungus, There are quite a few weapons out there that are designed with the idea that they will be dropped and bounced around on a regular basis. Either from combat or just the average ignoramus. A sporting rifle cannot put up with as much abuse as a hunting rifle; the hunting rifle can take less abuse than a combat rifle. There are close-combat techniques that teach a person how to use a rifle as a melee weapon. You learn where to strike, how to strike, and which end to strike with. If a rifle is swung like a bat, which is a wrong technique, then yes there is a really good chance the stock will break or something will bend, thus rendering it useless. For as cheaply made as the M16 is, it can put up with a lot of abuse. Soldiers are trained to to literally hit the ground running and use the butt of the rifle, not their elbows, to catch their fall. While you definitely would not want to use your Olympic Target Pistol to fend off a close attacker, I would not hesitate to pistol-whip that same person with an M1911. Granted, no matter what type is used, any scopes or any type of optics should (realistically) be knocked out of alignment, and have to be recalibrated in order to be of any use. I watched a guy literally drop his hunting rifle in his truck, leave it there for a couple of weeks while driving over bad roads, then couldn't figure out why the cross-hairs fell out of the tracks. Military grade optics might be a bit tougher, but even those can handle so much abuse/misuse without proper care. Same goes for weapons. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
May 15, 2008 - 8:20am | Otherwise when private meatshield disembarked his troop carrier under fire and dropped to the ground to avoid be lased in two his rifle would smack the earth with a satisfying plastic crack and hold no more use than a paper weight. I think that a combat grade laser rifle would be designed with that scenario in mind. High-impact plastics and fiberglass are available now, why wouldn't those materials be used in SF? The M16 has a plastic stock, it was made to put up with abuse from combat, storage/shipping, and general idiots. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
May 15, 2008 - 8:50am | which rifles are made for use as a melee weapon? Who trains soldiers to use a rifle as a melee weapon, other than bayonet training? Gunny Hunter used to say, “ Don’t use yer rifle like a club you’ll fuck it all up…use the other end and pull the trigger Cpl. Harper!” At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
May 15, 2008 - 9:11am | I knew I didnt word my comment correctly. There are not any that I know of that are specifically "made" for melee combat. I think they are designed with the idea that there is a good chance they will be used in hand-to-hand. Bayonet training is what I was trying to refer to. I was taught, in Army boot-camp, that just because there is sharp, pointy-thingy on one end of the rifle doesnt mean that is the only end to attack with. A rifle-butt stroke delivered to the side of the ribs or the kidneys will do alot of damage. Especially since you are striking with the narrow tip of the stock. There is alot of energy focused through a small area. Then there is a "smash" type of attack, where you are planting the entire butt of the stock into the chest or the face of your oppenent. In no way, shape, shpe or form am I swinging it like a club or a bat. I have control of my rifle, and I kepe it close to me so I can make short, fast attacks that are easy for me to recover from and keep pressing the enemy. Hope that clears it up a bit. Or did I make it worse? Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
May 15, 2008 - 9:48am | That is OK I get where you are coming from. In the marines we had bayonet training. They said it was to teach aggressiveness, that we would probably never use it. In 1st Marine Recon. it was a commonly held belief that you should never bang your rifle around. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
May 15, 2008 - 10:00am | lol. I bet you have seen your share of people doing stupid things with thier rifles then. heh heh, in Basic Training, the D.I. always got on the troops for dropping rifles or banging them around, then we get to the bayonet training and we start stabbing and bashing things, clanging barrels together in mock parries... lol Yes, I do tend to "baby" my firearms, but at the same time, I know that most of them can take hard use (vs abuse) and still properly function. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
May 15, 2008 - 10:32am | Yeh, those guys did a lot of strange things with their rifles. I had a lot of muzzles pointed in my face in the beginning. The DI would flip out. The biggest offense was to just leave your rifle laying around. That would get your weapon thrown into the porta- jon at the range. hehe. After a reluctant retrieval and a good cleaning the recruit wouldn't let his rifle out of his sight again. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
May 15, 2008 - 1:58pm | Otherwise when private meatshield disembarked his troop carrier under fire and dropped to the ground to avoid be lased in two his rifle would smack the earth with a satisfying plastic crack and hold no more use than a paper weight. I think that a combat grade laser rifle would be designed with that scenario in mind. High-impact plastics and fiberglass are available now, why wouldn't those materials be used in SF? The M16 has a plastic stock, it was made to put up with abuse from combat, storage/shipping, and general idiots. Plastic, not a chance, more like carbon fiber. Much ligter and can be VERY abused. I have one and they are exspensive. but, I can see a molecular or nano type of "grow" to make them in the future. I have seen lamelar micro construction in electronics. And, I have played with layered manufactureing for general purposes. If I can find some stuff on the internet I will send some your way. Or, just search for the key words and you will find them. |
May 15, 2008 - 3:14pm | Umungus, There are quite a few weapons out there that are designed with the idea that they will be dropped and bounced around on a regular basis. Either from combat or just the average ignoramus. A sporting rifle cannot put up with as much abuse as a hunting rifle; the hunting rifle can take less abuse than a combat rifle. There are close-combat techniques that teach a person how to use a rifle as a melee weapon. You learn where to strike, how to strike, and which end to strike with. If a rifle is swung like a bat, which is a wrong technique, then yes there is a really good chance the stock will break or something will bend, thus rendering it useless. And, these aren't counting the techniques involving the use of a bayonet..... For as cheaply made as the M16 is, it can put up with a lot of abuse. Soldiers are trained to to literally hit the ground running and use the butt of the rifle, not their elbows, to catch their fall. While you definitely would not want to use your Olympic Target Pistol to fend off a close attacker, I would not hesitate to pistol-whip that same person with an M1911. And, remember, with the M1911, there's always the chance of accidential discharge....:D "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 15, 2008 - 4:54pm | hmmmm, in the real world my pistol gets knocked around on the job all the time and it works fine and shoots true without ever a jam. Yes they are made to take a beating thats what combat is and while SF is a flight of fantasy as a game it reflects a simualation of what could be speculated as reasonable in game situation, other wise gamers would never have any fun if their PC's had to hold their guns like babes and run through the adventure crawling through spaces, running, jumping, falling, flying, etc. with the worry of bumping their guns. Now if they shove their gun in between two huge sprockets to jam the evil wheels of the machine of doom it would be fine to assume they have broke their gun..lol |
 May 16, 2008 - 7:15pm | I would think it's safe to say most rifles work better as a rifle rather than a bludgeon. Unless your weapon is from the 40K universe, then it's a more effective as a club. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 May 17, 2008 - 5:33pm | Larger bore weapon can handle more power output! Does this make sense. Sergeant |
