 April 29, 2008 - 10:03am | Recently we had players that really like the Star Wars universe. When questioned why it wasn't the setting or rule-set as much as, "I want a lightsaber and the ability to use force powers". If anyone has run across this what are some ways: 1. You have integrated these concepts into Star Frontiers. 2. You have an idea how to integrated these concepts with Star Frontiers. Yes, there is a test at the end of the this chapter.  |
 May 1, 2008 - 1:42am | When Darth Vader removed his blaster from his hand with mental powers sure made him look silly. Anyway, if you read the Mentilist section and play the part of detective and you are looking for a Mentalist pick the disciplines that you would use. Here I call it Mental Forensics the actual eveidence that is left behind by the use of mentalist powers. Even without the mentalist powers I can use the technology to be able to make them think I am a mentalist. I was giving ImpLord the quote, cos he couldn't remember it. If you want my two centicreds on this, one, Star Wars isn't about the Jedi(I can just hear the die-hard fans screaming "burn the heretic" now), but about the Force, aka life and everything that makes it worthwhile...does anyone here think Luke would've been anything without his friends at his side, or his fellow Rebels coming through for themselves just when they were needed to the most? As for Mentalists...with limits, they can be as valid a character concept as any other. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 1, 2008 - 6:08am | Lightsabre - meh. Let me introduce you to a close personal friend of mine, the O'Caine Industries Plasma Cutlass..... |
 May 1, 2008 - 7:13am | I thought SW is the story o ftwo androids and their adventures. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
May 1, 2008 - 8:07am | I thought SW is the story o ftwo androids and their adventures. Here's the story, Of a lovley lady, Who was bringing up two very ornery droids, ... one of them was made of gold. The other one just Weetooo BipBeep. Here's the story, Of a boy named Ani, Who was busy with the Dark Side and on his own. There were four powers he really wanted, None of them his own.  |
 May 1, 2008 - 9:42am | Any man called "Annie" enough times MUST go to the Dark Side. |
 May 2, 2008 - 5:04am | Brady Bunch....w00t.....ick....I can never watch the little guy zoom around in his pod racer again with out that in my head....... Mess with the fish....you get the bone!!! |
May 2, 2008 - 8:47am | Now, for the SF version of the lightsaber. A lightsaber is a blade of annhilating energy focussed by a rare crystal and shaped by powerful magnetic fields. The blade does 4D10 damage; skein and albedo suits and all other physical armor has no effect against the blade, and albedo screens reduce a lightsaber's damage by 25%. Items made of cortosis fiber, phrik or Madalorian iron(all as rare as the lightsaber crystals themselves) halve damage caused by lightsabers. If using Clean Cut Rogue's hit location system, any hit to the head or limbs sever them automatically. Lightsabers mass 3 kg, cost 1,000,000 Credits(and may not be available at your local PGC-Streel*Mart....) and use a special 100 SEU powercell good for an hour of continous use. LIGHTSABER COMBAT A character can study the Lightsaber Combat skill, allowing him to use the weapon to its fullest effect. Characters skilled in Lightsaber Combat can add a number of dice of damage equal to their Lightsaber Combat skill level to the saber's actual damage. (Just off the top of my head....) "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 2, 2008 - 9:32am | How would the lightsaber and sonic sword interact? I imagine that a lightsaber would treat the sonic sword like it wasn't there... If your not skilled with a lightsaber there is a 10% that you will cut yourself in melee combat taking 1d10 damage. Roll against yourself for each melee attack you make. LOL (of course this would apply to a sonic sword as well) |
May 2, 2008 - 9:35am | Nice. A sonic sword cannot parry a lightsaber or vice versa. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 2, 2008 - 9:38am | Now, as to Force powers. The Mentalist skills cover most of the light-side Force powers wonderfully, while Vader's Force Choke and Palpatine's Force Lightning can be interpreted as specialized applications of Telekinesis and Pyrokinesis respectively. (Yes, ImpLord, those yukky Mentalist skills....:D) "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 2, 2008 - 9:53am | ...the best force power in the universe is Force Dice: The ability to manipulate dice rolls to show any face side. (remember when Qui Gon waved his had like a Jedi or something and changed Watto's dice roll?) I use it all the time. (Oops! now GM's know my secret of Critical Success rolls) |
May 2, 2008 - 9:58am | Force Dice, unfortunately, has no effect on the powers of GM fiat: "A natural 3, you say? Unfortunately, you still take 5 dice bleeding damage and another 2 dice infection damage from cutting yourself with your safety razor...have a nice day...." w00t....:D "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 2, 2008 - 8:18pm | Suggestions: PC's without lightsabre PSA would have to make frequent dexterity checks or risk self-inflicted injury and have greatly penalty modifiers for use. Lightsabres should be handcrafted weapons available only from skilled smiths. Knock offs would result in frequent equip failures and injury, a pc with a lightsabre PSA could id the real thing from a cheap fake. I think if the weapon is going to be allowed, there should be a better rule for defense allowing screens to deflect a light sabre attack. Skiens due to there close proximity to the body may reduce damage slighty but would be completely ineffective as a real defense. I don't think I would allow light sabres in their true sense in any of my games a this time. The mechanics are a little too out there and the weapon while restricted by range is way too powerful in its orignal concept to make for challenging game play. Sure the PC would love it! Just find one and go to town on anything in range with absolute impunity. Cybodragon, no problem, Slither no problem, closed blast doors...no problem. Referree with head in hands.... And then a mighty doomsday planet killer emerges from the void, eats the world your on and self-destructs in guilt....sigh, lets put something in the DVD player now and watch a movie, game over. |
 May 2, 2008 - 10:32pm | I have consedered/wondered how some of the weapon enhancements form the crpg Knights of the Old Republic would work with SF. That is a project i will might look into over the next few months. Let us know if you have done such a thing. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
May 3, 2008 - 8:20am | Why does a light saber have to do 999d10 damage? Why does it have to slice off heads and limbs? I think you could have it in there, as others have suggested in this thread, as a different flavor of sonic sword. And besides guys, let's face it - the sonic sword was largely a light saber rip-off. |
May 3, 2008 - 8:29am | Suggestions: PC's without lightsabre PSA would have to make frequent dexterity checks or risk self-inflicted injury and have greatly penalty modifiers for use. Lightsabres should be handcrafted weapons available only from skilled smiths. Knock offs would result in frequent equip failures and injury, a pc with a lightsabre PSA could id the real thing from a cheap fake. I think if the weapon is going to be allowed, there should be a better rule for defense allowing screens to deflect a light sabre attack. Skiens due to there close proximity to the body may reduce damage slighty but would be completely ineffective as a real defense. I don't think I would allow light sabres in their true sense in any of my games a this time. The mechanics are a little too out there and the weapon while restricted by range is way too powerful in its orignal concept to make for challenging game play. Sure the PC would love it! Just find one and go to town on anything in range with absolute impunity. Cybodragon, no problem, Slither no problem, closed blast doors...no problem. Referree with head in hands.... And then a mighty doomsday planet killer emerges from the void, eats the world your on and self-destructs in guilt....sigh, lets put something in the DVD player now and watch a movie, game over. ROFLMAO, Arizona.... Of course, there's always the old GM rule of thumb:For each powerful item/cool toy the PCs have in their inventory, each NPC will have ten of them plus defense against all the PCs' cool toys ...and there will be at least ten NPCs per PC.... What can I say, just call me Lucifer..... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 3, 2008 - 8:30am | Incidentally, Arizona, your suggested mechanics are perfect. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 3, 2008 - 8:43am | Why does a light saber have to do 999d10 damage? Why does it have to slice off heads and limbs? I think you could have it in there, as others have suggested in this thread, as a different flavor of sonic sword. And besides guys, let's face it - the sonic sword was largely a light saber rip-off. In order: 1. It doesn't. It does 4D10 base+1d10/level of Lightsaber Combat, which is, at most, +6D10 to that. 2. 'Cause that's what they did in the movies(the limbs at least), and any SW fanboy who plays an SF Jedi is going to want that same quality out of his SF lightsaber. 3. I couldn't agree more, Brian, 'cept I use plasma blades and laser lances in my game...the former is 3 kg, costs 2,000 Cr and does 6D10 damage, while the latter is 2 kg, costs 2,500 Cr, does 4D10 stabbing damage and 6D10 slashing damage. Now, if one wants to go that route, one could come up with a separate Jedi(or Force Warrior, or Mystic Warrior, whatever) PSA, restrict the Lightsaber Combat skill to that PSA, give Jedi PCs a small laundry list of Mentalist disciplines they can learn and set the skill costs thusly:
or whatever cost everyone feels is appropriate. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 3, 2008 - 9:36am | If we must continue this avenue (groan), then as in the last post create a Jedi PSA... and I agree, that Lightsaber use be included into that PSA. I disagree completely with the obscene damage proposed, instead limiting the spectacular dismemberments be instead attributed to 'critical hits' but a good mechanic for such crits needs to be fleshed out. I believe that a substantial critical fumble chance should be included (as is mentioned in several of the SW books that it is very easy to accidentally wound oneself)... with that fumble chance only being offset by 'mastery' of the weapon which I would place around 4th level in the skill. Now with such a Jedi PSA created, each power described in such SW novels or movies could be designed as a separate Skill within that PSA, but I would take heed to tone down the power levels of such powers... much to the dismay of diehards. Game balance must be kept, else everyone would pick up the Jedi PSA, even for just a few powers.... and I would make Jedi powers be exclusively limited to those who choose Jedi as their PSA (similar to the Mentalist limitation). The limit of powers to Jedi PSA characters only leads me to another thought... There should be a game mechanic in place to allow characters to somehow change PSA during their career... some sort of buy-out of the difference between the XP spent already, and the cost of their skill levels if they were 'out of psa' plus a reasonable penalty (maybe 5 or 10 XP)... allowing characters to switch down the road. The Storm Trooper (military psa) realizes after some time that he is 'force-sensitive' and decides to devote himself to study of the Force. He changes his PSA, then must devote at least 50% of his newly earned XPs toward buying off the change-over... or something like that. The mechanic for switching need not be exclusive to this Jedi discussion, as I could see my Tech character deciding to go 'all military' as an option. <insert witty comment here> |
May 3, 2008 - 9:49am | All excellent ideas, RK, and both Bill's proposed skill system and SF2K allow for prime and secondary PSAs. Come to think of it, you're right about the obscene damage and dismemberments. Make, say a natural roll of 01-05 a critical hit, and a natural 96-00 a critical failure, and limit the more spectacular lightsaber damage(and fumbles) to those results. As for damage, I'm all for leaving it at a 4D10 base and allow a character skilled in Lightsaber Combat an extra 1 or 2D10, per the Weapon Form skill in w00t's character sheet listed above. Or, just let a lightsaber do 6D10 of a sonic sword and no extra damage due to skill. BTW, assuming he's a clone, a stormtrooper wouldn't be Force sensitive; Palpatine may be an evil Sith lord, but he ain't stupid.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 3, 2008 - 9:51am | Whoa whoa - Jedi?? Ugh I just favor a generic light saber similar in characteristics to the sonic sword - maybe a little better. Why shouldn't a sonic sword cut people up into little pieces? Or for that matter, a regular sword? It does not have to be some sort of Kung Fu Master Legend of Kane Young Grasshopper weapon. Standard Melee skill increases chances to hit - per normal. And it would not be the Laser Power Torch that is seen in the movies, either. Made to cut through organic substances, not metal doors and sides of tanks. Although it might cut the muzzle off of a gun, or mess up a computer bank by slicing it up, but it would not do squat to heavy equipment. An attempt might even overload it and fry it. Let the Star Wars people play Star Wars. |
May 3, 2008 - 10:17am | Whoa whoa - Jedi?? Ugh I just favor a generic light saber similar in characteristics to the sonic sword - maybe a little better. Why shouldn't a sonic sword cut people up into little pieces? Or for that matter, a regular sword? It does not have to be some sort of Kung Fu Master Legend of Kane Young Grasshopper weapon. Standard Melee skill increases chances to hit - per normal. And it would not be the Laser Power Torch that is seen in the movies, either. Made to cut through organic substances, not metal doors and sides of tanks. Although it might cut the muzzle off of a gun, or mess up a computer bank by slicing it up, but it would not do squat to heavy equipment. An attempt might even overload it and fry it. Let the Star Wars people play Star Wars. Or, just let a lightsaber do 6D10 of a sonic sword and no extra damage due to skill. I'm personally in favor of the same thing, Brian, I'm just trying to help things along a bit for those who are into that sort of thing. Gods know I wouldn't allow this in any game I run, or if I did, it would be more of a realistic martial artist sort of thing, more Kwai-Chaing Caine (from the originial Kung Fu series, not that piece of crap co-starring Chris Potter)than the Luke Skywalker from the EU novels. As I may have brushed upon in another post, I think Star Wars has become about Jedi created in the rabid fanboy image, and nothing at all like what Lucas himself had in mind when he first started writing the nine scripts in film school 33 years ago. His idea of the Force is that every living thing in the Galaxy was a Force user, simply by the dint of living, and it is the act of living, and all the other things which come with it—love, friendship, the willingness to risk your neck to save those closest to you, or simply to do a little right in the world(those nasty attachments the Old Jedi Order warned us to avoid)—which strengthens a being's connection to the Force and, ultimately, makes him stronger and better than he knew he could be. Certainly, Luke Skywalker was no walking demigod in all three of the movies, just a regular guy thrust into things greater than himself and forced to either sink or swim; it's just fortunate he chooses to swim, and, more importantly, he's has good friends and role models to help keep him afloat and show him the right track to stay on. Would Luke have been able to do what he had to do had Owen and Beru not been willing to be loving parents for him? If Obi-Wan had not sacrificed himself for his sake and Anakin's? If Han Solo had not come back for him over Yavin and on Hoth? If the Rebel strike team on Endor not been able to befriend the Ewoks and win through to take out the generator station? If Lando Calrissian not been willing to risk his fighters and Ackbar's fleet against the Imps? If a certain A-wing pilot(Arvel Crynnyd) not crashed his ship into the bridge of the Executor? If Luke had not been able to have faith in his friends and allies to begin with? The saga isn't any more about the Jedi and Luke Skywalker than the Lensman series was about the Lens and Kimball Kinnison; it is quite possible to play a Star Wars RPG(West End's rules by far)or campaign without even a single Jedi or Sith showing his face. For those who are willing, at least.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 25, 2008 - 12:46pm | STARFIRE BLADES A starfire blade employs technology similar to the starfire grenade launcher on the Frontiersman laser pistol(see the SMan 8 classifieds) to create a blade of pure, white-hot plasma energy shaped and focussed by a magnetic field. The blade is normally the length of a broadsword, doing 6D10 damage, offering a +15 modifier to the chance to-hit, costing Cr 500, and using 2 SEU/hit. For an extra Cr150, the blade's length can be adjusted from knife-length(-1D10 damage) to the length of a greatsword(+1D10 damage). The knife-length setting uses 1 SEU/hit, while the greatsword setting uses 5 SEU/hit. A starfire blade weighs 1.75 kilograms andd uses a 20 SEU powerclip. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 25, 2008 - 5:37pm | 2.5 kilograms sounds kind of heavy for a handle weapon, I'm not calculating that precisely at the moment but isn't that around four to five pounds for just the handle. The energy field would have no weight to it so you would probably just be concerned with the handle weight. imagine swinging around a five pound dumbbell for intracate sword strikes and you start to see what I mean, it would be rough on the wrist. I would recommend about two to two and a half pounds. |
 May 24, 2008 - 11:42pm | My rapiers weigh about 1.2 and 3 pounds... I've fenced with the 1.2 pounder for periods of up to 4 hours with over 50% "in-hand" time. I've fought heavy with a 5 pound rattan "sword" for periods of up to an hour with stick in-hand. You can get used to it. Really, a 4 pound (~1.8kg) handle is a bit heavy, but not bad, and yes, once you've spent a year+ training wiht one regularly, you won't much notice it anymore. It's definitely a whol helluva lot more ballanced than my rapier (38" blade, 1.2#, plus a 1oz fowling blunt and an oz. of leather to protect my hand). Seriously. I'd suggest dropping the handle weight to a 1.75kg or so (3# 14oz) |
May 25, 2008 - 12:45pm | 1.75 kilos it is, then. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 25, 2008 - 5:49pm | great idea, 1.75 kilos sounds very reasonable for any race or gender to handle without any serious encumberance or fatigue. I would venture the assumption that the reason handling a 4-7 pound steel long sword is not particuarly cumbersome is that the weight of the weapon is distributed throughout the lenght of the entire weapon with a particular balance point in the weapon acting as a counter weight. With a weapon that is light sabre-ish in design where the bulk of the weapon is isolated entirely in the handle, comming from emitters, generator, and power source with no balance point or counter weight all of the weight would rest solely on the operators hand, wrist and shoulder respectively. Part of the reason heavy swords are effective battlefield weapons is that the weight of the blade works with the force of gravity to add momentum and terminal velocity to the cutting surface. With a "blade-less" weapon we have to think more in terms of total ergonomics when considering weight and control of the weapon. Another interesting consideration on vibro, sonic, or other energy weapons with a pulsing or vibrating field is proper shock absorbtion in the handle materials.  |
May 26, 2008 - 8:20am | Also, one has to take into effect the added mass of the energy blade once it's ignited(as sufficently coherent energy will still have mass)in both designing the sword and in handling it, as it might be unexpected(which was why I first suggested 2.5 kilos). The design of an energy blade handle needs to make allowances for this added mass once the blade is activated. As for inert steel blades, the ones used on the battlefield weren't as heavy as one would be led to believe, and, as Aramis pointed out, once you've used the blade for a while, the weight doesn't tend to be noticeable. Now, vibroblades would be tricky to handle once activated, as the precession caused by the vibrating blade would make it difficult for a novice user to swing. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 26, 2008 - 10:06am | I disagree on the energy blade adding more mass. It takes 90 trillion joules of energy to be the mass equivalent of 1 gram of matter (c-squared is a big number). That's enough power to supply my house (assuming a high 2000 khw montly consumption) with enough electricity for over a million years. Or in another context, that is enough power to supply the entire US energy consumption for about 4 years. I don't think a little 20 SEU clip is going to supply anywhere near enough power to add any mass. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
May 27, 2008 - 1:32am | I disagree on the energy blade adding more mass. [...] I don't think a little 20 SEU clip is going to supply anywhere near enough power to add any mass. Actually, as energy is expended, the mass of the clip will drop... a few femtograms. |
