 April 29, 2008 - 10:03am | Recently we had players that really like the Star Wars universe. When questioned why it wasn't the setting or rule-set as much as, "I want a lightsaber and the ability to use force powers". If anyone has run across this what are some ways: 1. You have integrated these concepts into Star Frontiers. 2. You have an idea how to integrated these concepts with Star Frontiers. Yes, there is a test at the end of the this chapter.  |
 April 29, 2008 - 10:07am | Lightsabers - cool. Um, sonic sword anyone? Force - lame and probably will spiral into something retardedly too powerful. (IE Mentalists - vomit!) |
April 29, 2008 - 10:10am | Lightsabers - cool. Um, sonic sword anyone? Force - lame and probably will spiral into something retardedly too powerful. (IE Mentalists - vomit!) Are you saying that as a GM you would not allow Players to use these (or offer an alterative)? Might have to bend a little to get Players involved. Bill mentioned the sonic sword as well. Excellent suggestions. Lightsabers give off to much light. You can see a Jedi on the moon from your back yard.  |
 April 29, 2008 - 10:30am | Shadow Shack uses the Proton Sword which I think comes from a Dragon magazine article in lieu of the light saber. It's basically a sonic sword that glows but is defended against using a gauss screen instead of a sonic screen. If you want to see a Star Wars-esque Star Frontiers campaign, check out his Dominion game at http://www.mfbb.net/starfrontiers. (I'm playing the Han Solo equivilent character) Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
April 29, 2008 - 10:31am | I would be happy for someone to propose a lightsaber - straight out of the movie - and slam it into the next Star Frontiersman issue. And if it is balanced I would be happy to include it in my campaigns. No problem. If you want mental crap then play Star Trek and quiver with the Betazeds. |
 April 29, 2008 - 10:35am | "Light Sabers and The Force are trademarked by Lucasfilms/Lucasarts/??? therfor they cant be utalized by the Star Frontiers universe/denziens." That would be my smarty-pants, lawery-type reply.  Or "And I want a player that can come up with original character concepts, other than Dark-Jedi Jawas." Depending on who I was talking to.I try to point out the Sonic Sword/knife and the Force Axe from Zebs. Then tell the players about the Mentalist and how it needs to be refined a bit before we can use it. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
April 29, 2008 - 10:45am | Well Rum, we are not selling plastic light sabers, we're just using them imaginatively in a "private, non-commercial use." Lucas will have to deal with that. Of course, Lucas will probably send Darth Maul to enforce the copyright and I will kick Maul's azz, because he is LAME. Then I will take my legal light saber and kill Jar-Jar. But I will NEVER run a campaign with mental powers in any form. In fact, I remember the fact that it was missing from SF was one of the many reasons why I liked the game. |
April 29, 2008 - 11:06am | Well Rum, we are not selling plastic light sabers, we're just using them imaginatively in a "private, non-commercial use." Lucas will have to deal with that. Of course, Lucas will probably send Darth Maul to enforce the copyright and I will kick Maul's azz, because he is LAME. Then I will take my legal light saber and kill Jar-Jar. Lol. Nice. I agree. But I will NEVER run a campaign with mental powers in any form. In fact, I remember the fact that it was missing from SF was one of the many reasons why I liked the game.
Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
 April 29, 2008 - 1:36pm | I would just make up a light saber. Have the bonus and damage similar to a sonic sword. Then for the force rules you could use mental mutations out of the Gamma Dawn rules. The are many mental mutations that are Jedi like. Then the player could develop them as they get more experience points. After all the Jedi are born with the abilities and have to develop them. Much like an inherent mutation. sound good? At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
April 29, 2008 - 2:05pm | umungus - what about alien artifacts the Players find that give them special abilities? I'm gonna ask Bill if in our next sitting I can try his Mentalist PSA. Just to see how it plays. :-) |
 April 29, 2008 - 4:05pm | I have used Mentalists before and I do not even fret about the game being over balanced. I make sure that the player knows that this is a powerful PSA. That is why there is Psi-corp to keep Mentalists in line. And to make it less unbalanced I allow other players to have Enlightened Characters. It went over so well and balanced out when I introduced them to Augments. Once they found out how an augment works they stayed put. I also let them know about the registration of their character to Psi-corp and the things that could happen if they are found out. An Augment is a profesional cybernetic hybred that uses cyberntics to mimic feats of magic, mentalist powes, and general mayhem. They can be jammed I know but there is away around that too. In my games Mentalists can be jammed to a very short range or limited power to their mental ability. I also have another profesion of Mentalist hunters. Try that on for size.  |
April 29, 2008 - 4:16pm | Oh yes, I forgot about the Mentalist null character. |
 April 29, 2008 - 4:44pm | Honestly, if I get the urge to play a force user, then I would not play SF - I would pick up my SW d6 or SW d20 games to play. Why reinvent the mechanics for SF? Now on the topic of Mentallists, I would love to have the general concept redesigned from the ground up. Eliminate the PSA aspect of it altogether, and make it more of a single (very costly from a XP standpoint) latent ability that a character could develop... something more akin to a random power like the Gamma Dawn rules list... but the powers would need to be much more mundane. A character might be mildly telepathic, or having a small amount of precog powers, or a somewhat useful pyrochinetic ability... not a host of powers with exceedingly strong effects. <insert witty comment here> |
April 29, 2008 - 5:18pm | umungus - what about alien artifacts the Players find that give them special abilities? I'm gonna ask Bill if in our next sitting I can try his Mentalist PSA. Just to see how it plays. :-) That is the campaign I just ran. The characters were travelling throughout the frontier to find alien artifacts. each of them had a different effect. One would cause mental mutations. One would cause physical mutations. One would affect power sources, power packs, parabatteries electronics. The characters all acquired mental mutations from the campaign. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
April 29, 2008 - 6:15pm | I ran a Mentalist only campaign that turned out great, Had them running from their own shadows. I also made tons of mentalist only equipment. And, I expanded the Mentalist disciplines to include over a hundred more abiliies and sub abilities. To enter a Mentalist's abode is suicide even for a mentalist. Never go alone even as Star Law Psi-corp. You guys are missing all the fun. Who wouldn't want to have a teleport chase around a moon. They just couldn't out run the Star lawman's chronocomp(more advanced the the chronocom). Neat little toy I have. You just can't outrun it on a high tech world. |
April 29, 2008 - 7:03pm | I also made tons of mentalist only equipment. Do tell! :-) |
April 29, 2008 - 7:33pm | The key here is the metalist switch level 3 device. A normal light switch would be level 1. A mentalist switch is invisble to a normal character. It is also a level 4 lock with special equipment for you normals out there, otherwise, good luck on finding it and tripping it. A mental switch can be put anywhere the mentalist desires and can operate any device he/she desires to turn on or off. A level higher devices can be used as combination locks or multiple switch banks for many devices. A level 4 device would have 2 to 5 switches. As is, it is a level 5 lock as a combination lock it becomes a level 6. The device level reflect the level the Mentalist should be at to use it. A level 5 device is a panel of them 10 to 20. Level 6 can have many more some as many as 50 is not unusual. They are small then a dime for size. An example of use and try to use this one as a normal, A grenade with this device in it. Pull the pin then throw it? This is only the basics and the core of mentalist equipment. NOTE: All items I consider to be black market items. Not something you go down to the local Techno shack and grab one. Although you could fashion one from common material. Do not let anyone know you have this skill. |
 April 29, 2008 - 7:46pm | Mentalist characters can quickly become the focus of a campaign if you include them in your games. They aren't necessarily unbalanced though... because they often can only do things that other characters can do with certain gear, certain skills, or certain types of actions. THey become the focus because of the focus YOU put on them, as a Referee. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
April 29, 2008 - 7:52pm | Yes, you are correct about that. However, the group wanted to see how dangerous it would be to run nothing but mentalists. And, I have never lost grips with any of my campaigns, never. When I was done the mentalists became a second hand character. My game actually always gets focused around my battle armor. |
 April 30, 2008 - 9:49am | I think the mentalist concept would be a lot more useful if we took a page from Firefly/Serenity and developed character attributes like River Tam (Maybe without the psychosis or maybe with). A mentalist would be very useful with reasonable ESP, precognition ability (maybe gives the character an automatic initiative bonus in combat), reasonable telekinetics - like push a door handle or move a small object but would have severe stamina penalties for the amount of concentration required to accomplish this act. Subjects using telekinetics may even absorb physical damage as in one HP per attempt due to the strain to the attempt. Cybernetic implants and amplifying devices sould negate this effect and greatly amplify the attempts sucess. However I think that defying the laws of physics and fishing a spacefighter out of a swamp or lifting a ground car would be absolutely out of the question. But opening a locked door, knocking a weapon from someones hand/pulling a weapon to the PC's hand, lifting a lite object may have some merit worth exploring. Unless you want to get into supernatural themes in the game (Which I most certainly do not) Clarivoyance and Clariaudience are kind of pointless skills. Using Clarivoyance to "read minds" or ease-drop on mental conversations is sketchy at best. I would go the route of premonition - the character has a feeling about what is going on or gets a image in his/her head or maybe a dream about what will happen (That could make for a fun plot device if you use cryo-statis type of technology) Anyway I agree that the current system needs a re-write and that Force powers are way too open-ended or powerful for this game as they are proposed in the Star Wars sense. |
April 30, 2008 - 10:15am | Not to mention I think that the original trilogy's approach to the force as physical manifestations of the unified universal energy field was a heck of a lot more plausible then this mumbo jumbo about medi-chlorians (or however you say that hogwash). What was Lucas smoking, if the medi-whatchamajigs were sentient but symbiotic micro-scopic entities then what would happen if they developed their own will and decided to go on strike. Darth MooMoo approaches the apprentice Jedi bent on unleashing a deadly Sith energy attack.....dice roll please.....when there is a catastrophic force check roll and the medi-chori..thingamawhatits all decided that they really liked the noble Jedi and being tired of their evil masters self-destructive ways decided to do nothing. Save versus laziness. And the nobel jedi kicks evil Darth Moo Moos butt by force pushing him off the catwalk to his death (funny how those catwalks are always in the right place at the right time with minimal protective railing....hmm I think some one should call OSHA to visit IL&M and inspect those catwalks immediately) As a Sci-fi movie fan of course I like Star Wars and can suspend my disbelief for two hours to enjoy a great story. However, were talking about a RPG where reasonable rule systems are in place to simulate events so that players can have an enjoyable time playing the game. I don't think a reasonably playable rules simulation has yet to be proposed that adequettely would describe force powers. Anyway thats another game, its called Star Wars RPG and it's not what I do...lol. I never cared for movie based or media based RPG because it requires you to operate within the assumed world created by the movies/media and kind of leaves the ref and gamer limited to what kind of things they can invent for their game. For instance Star Trek, I do enjoy some of the movies and a lot of the TV, but as a role playing game it was awful because you were pigeon holed into the Star Trek universe and bound by the already established concepts of this fictional reality. (Especially in ST, ever tried to convice a trekkie that his equipment/weapon didn't work a certain way and all the sudden they whip out their encyclopedia of Trek tech quote chap, vers, and episode as to why it did and why it will.....ackkkkkkkk. And then the ref declares that the unfortunate event of a Doomsday planet eater appears out of warp and eats the players world then self-destructs out of guilt causing a subspace rift that "supernovas" the Known universe...game over, lets have some pizza and put something in the DVD player to watch. |
April 30, 2008 - 10:20am | Has anyone read the Mentalist PSA in the back of the AD Remastered book? Bill and I play-tested last night using his proposed damage system and skill system. I played a cinematic martial artist while Bill played a mentalist. Good times -- although Bill only used his healing ability after taking massive amounts of damage from a tunnel fan that backfired on us. Here is my character (still adding info). Submitted By: Anonymous on April 30, 2008
Gok Hargut
 Basic InformationRace: YazirianGender: MaleAge: 28yearsHandedness: RightHeight: 1.8Weight: 48Ability ScoresSTR/STA: 50/60DEX/RS: 75/55INT/LOG: 50/55PER/LDR: 45/45Initiative Modifier: +6Punching Score: +3Ranged Weapons: 38%Melee Weapons: 37%MovementWalking: 10 m/turn Running: 30 m/turn Hourly: 4 kph Racial AbilitiesBattle Rage:5%. Night Vision: But -15 to all actions in full light. Gliding: Can glide 1m forward for each 1m dropped. SkillsPrimary Skill Area: MilitaryProjectile Weapons: Level 2Computers: Level 1Robotics: Level 1BackgroundGok lost his family when he was very young so he took the name of the planet he was found on, Hargut. Gok hails from the Barakha clan. Barakha's are of stocky build and are proud hard workers. Because of this there is no penatly to STR/STA. EquipmentClothing / Eyewear Coveralls, inside pouch has a Pocket Flashlight/Tool Advanced Chronochom on left wrist Toxy-Rad Gauge strapped to left shoulder area Sungoggles / Magnigoggles / IR Goggles around neck Gas Mask, left leg pouch Backpack
Sonic Sword +6; 53%; S:6d10; ROF:2; 20SUE, 2/hit Auto Pistol - single shot +6; 58%; I:2d10; ROF:3; 20, 1/hit - burst fire +6; 78%; I:5d10; ROF:1; 20, 5/hit DEFENESE Skeinsuit 50 |
April 30, 2008 - 10:44am | Once again, I have to swim upstream here... |
April 30, 2008 - 2:19pm | OK, end of Mentalist....... No one likes so why go on with it. I do not have time to get you to even try a scenario. You are so bent that anything to do with powers of the mind is instantly a Jedi Knight. Star Wars is good entertainment but not any good as an RPG. I wouldn't care for it anyway. The Mentalist is a good class, but you have to be open to it and closed to Star Warsian attitude. |
April 30, 2008 - 2:31pm | No, I changed my mind. You guys need to watch "Attack of the Clones" a little closer. When the empire won the insueing war the emporer ordered the trade federation to turn off ALL battledroids because the Jedi and the sith are powerless to them enmass. So, jedi are not all powerful. In a properly made scenario a Mentalist is never as powerful as he wants to be. If he does try he will be an outlaw being sought out by someone more powerful.....Star Law Psi-corp. Or, just about any of the denizens that look more at the Mentalist as A "witch". Witch hunt anyone? The mentalist is a powerful class to a point and if you cross that point you will most likely be hunted down and eradicated. |
April 30, 2008 - 3:16pm | (snip) so bent that anything to do with powers of the mind is instantly a Jedi Knight. I started the thread mentioning SW and force but I agree with Gilbert, it seems any time you mention "mental" and "power" it automatically assumed "Jedi" - but they don't have mental power right? Just off the top of my head: Sathar - Hypnotic Ul-Mor - Mind link I'm sure there are more. |
 April 30, 2008 - 3:18pm | I would be happy for someone to propose a lightsaber - straight out of the movie - and slam it into the next Star Frontiersman issue. And if it is balanced I would be happy to include it in my campaigns. No problem. If you want mental crap then play Star Trek and quiver with the Betazeds. "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side." Han Solo to Obi-Wan Kenobi, Star Wars "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
April 30, 2008 - 3:29pm | When Darth Vader removed his blaster from his hand with mental powers sure made him look silly. Anyway, if you read the Mentilist section and play the part of detective and you are looking for a Mentalist pick the disciplines that you would use. Here I call it Mental Forensics the actual eveidence that is left behind by the use of mentalist powers. Even without the mentalist powers I can use the technology to be able to make them think I am a mentalist. |
April 30, 2008 - 6:46pm | (snip) so bent that anything to do with powers of the mind is instantly a Jedi Knight. I started the thread mentioning SW and force but I agree with Gilbert, it seems any time you mention "mental" and "power" it automatically assumed "Jedi" - but they don't have mental power right? Just off the top of my head: Sathar - Hypnotic Ul-Mor - Mind link You did kinda tie the two together at the start of the thread. Tis either fortunate or unfortunate that in order for people to understand "mental powers" Star Wars has to be referenced the majority of the time. That is not a slam, its just an observation. Most nongamers have to have some point of reference and SW is well known. At least with the Ul-Mor, there has to be a physicall connection for it to work. And the Eorna seem to have some mental abilities as well. Now I am wondering what the Sather Psionic Pragram may be like...  Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
April 30, 2008 - 9:10pm | I like having some element of the unknown in my sci fi - whether it be a new world or species ready to be discovered, or a special "mental" ability possessed by a specific race. I generally don't allow mentalist PCs in my games... even in the short gaming session I played with w00t yesterday, I made the Mentalist character an NPC that went along with his main character. The only thing is, if you add them, you almost have to develop mentalist aspects to your setting. If mentalists exist who can telekinetically move things around, every store owner is going to lock up all his merchendise to prevent you grabbing stuff off the shelf 20 meters away while he's not looking. Diplomats are going to emply mentalists to accompany them, to help defend against dominion of the mental sort... etc. Then you'd have to investigate the military and religious aspects of it... are mentalists seen as clergy, as witches, as agents of a megacorp... lots of ideas come to mind. My point is simple: if you add them to you game, it's more work than letting someone pick "beam weapons" as a skill, ya know? But they're not overpowered or disbalancing, not at all. If you're concerned about the "feel" of the game, don't be. Everyone has their own feel, their own flavor. That's one thing I love about Star Frontiers. It's setting is so light that you can tinker with it easily to mix to suit your tastes. MANY sci-fi movies and books have some level of supernatural powers. Vulcans, Romulans, etc. (Star Trek), Elementals, Necromongers, etc. (Riddick), The One (Jet Li movie), Starship Troopers, um... there are MANY more. Having a "Star Wars" feel to your game DOES make it differ from campaigns that loathe the concept of mental powers... but it doesn't make it WRONG. It's your game, play it how you want: then tell me about your sitting cuz I get ideas that way!!! :-) 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
April 30, 2008 - 11:08pm | Yes Will, thanks for the verbatim Han. Bill makes some excellent points there with the everyday life stuff. Having said all this, I would love to see a playtest. See if it does not blow out the game and see if it is cool. I'm not completely closed minded to it. I would just like to see some evidence, is all. |
