 February 20, 2008 - 1:02pm | There seems to be some misunderstandings concerning my views of Star Frontiers that I would like to clear up, but before we get to that, I'd like to say something: Everyone around here has different views about their game. Different people talk in different ways. Many have definite views about how they see a game, and some express those views as solid opinions. Statements like "I think" or "it should be this way" are no reason for someone to jump down a person's throat. Did that person claim to be the god and controller of everything Star Frontiers? No. I have never heard anything even implying that from anyone. Statements like that only show that the person has a clear and distinct view of the thing for which their passion shows. If you find yourself jumping down someone's throat because they have a different view than you, then the person that needs to be checked is YOU. I have strong opinions. Get used to it and deal or find another community. Because one thing I know is that I have never jumped anyone for their views of this game. Now on to my view. Some people seem to think that because I like keeping my game within believable science that I'm somehow contradicting my statements regarding how modern science should not rule science fiction. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are certain things in science that we can be certain will NEVER happen. That produces the outer limits of what science fiction should be, but it does not declare that science cannot go beyond modern understanding. The science of Star Frontiers was based upon theories that were valid at the time the game was made. A few of those theories have been disproved, but for the most part, most everything in the game is within reach of modern science. Just a few years research and we could achieve just about any of it. To me, that's the problem. We need to look beyond what we can achieve in a matter of a few years. (Oops. I did it. I made a definite statement. Oh well. That's my opinion and I'll express it any way I like. Politicians and scientists do it all the time. Sue me.) We need to stretch our imaginations. However, I believe that the imagination only stretches so far before it becomes pure fantasy. And that is where I will speak up and call "B.S." I'm not a scientist. I don't pretend to be. Sometimes I'm wrong. Sometimes others are wrong. But that is no reason to speak down to me or anyone else. It's no reason to make fun of me or anyone else. It's no reason to attack me or anyone else. Call my B.S. I'm fine with that, because I'll call your B.S. when the time comes. The question is whether you are mature enough to handle getting your B.S. called, or seeing someone else get their B.S. called, or properly handling calling someone elses B.S. Right now, I'm calling EVERYONE's B.S. that is into attacking people who have different opinions, how they express those opinions, or who have wrong opinions. The fact is, they are opinions no matter how they are expressed. Call their B.S., but do it in a way that doesn't make you look like a total jerk. The key: GET OVER YOURSELF. No, don't get over your opinions. You have as much right to an opinion as anyone else. But get over the EGO that makes you think you have a right to attack people for their views, no matter how those views are expressed. If you think you have a right to attack me for this expression of my opinions, then kiss my chapped, pink derriere. |
 February 20, 2008 - 1:27pm | If we took a vote I think you would be on the one looking for a new community. It's happend before... right? *sigh -- |
February 20, 2008 - 1:32pm | Perhaps you'd like to tell me what I did to crap in your wheaties. You're suddenly my enemy and I have no clue why. If you want to turn someone into an enemy, you can at least explain why. |
February 20, 2008 - 2:30pm | Your not my enemy. I'm just really tied of the rants. At least I post/PM you about how I feel...wish others would as well so it wouldn't seem like I'm the only one pointing this out. /looks in mirror/ I'm an ok person. I like me. LOL  -- |
 February 20, 2008 - 2:47pm | I have had views that differ from Corjay's, but I entirely respect his perspective. I am really not trying to cause more stir in whatever has been transpiring (because I have no idea what has been going on here to cause the outbursts)... but... for what it is worth Corjay is producing a substantial amount of material here, and is really a major factor in why the Star Frontiersman magazine has material to present, and his ideas (at least overall) are really top-notch. Corjay is a major reason why this site exists IMO. I am not trying to inflate his head, because I do see areas in his communication style that could use some tweaks (maybe an overhaul). total respect for both of you, and all who share their ideas here.  <insert witty comment here> |
February 20, 2008 - 3:38pm | Anyone who makes regular unwarranted attacks against me is my enemy. Sorry, w00t (simple), but you're already on the other side of the fence for me. You have not been contacting me by PM before openly attacking me. Just be sure not to mistake me for a friend from now on. |
February 20, 2008 - 2:52pm | I have had views that differ from Corjay's, but I entirely respect his perspective. I am really not trying to cause more stir in whatever has been transpiring (because I have no idea what has been going on here to cause the outbursts)... but... I hope it didn't look like I was looking for kudos or friends (thanks for that, though). This was a general rant covering two things: a misunderstanding regarding my views and the attacks that go around, not just against me. I get tired of seeing attacks on account of opinions. It's meaningless.for what it is worth Corjay is producing a substantial amount of material here, and is really a major factor in why the Star Frontiersman magazine has material to present, and his ideas (at least overall) are really top-notch. Corjay is a major reason why this site exists IMO. I am not trying to inflate his head, because I do see areas in his communication style that could use some tweaks (maybe an overhaul). total respect for both of you, and all who share their ideas here. |
 February 20, 2008 - 5:06pm | I'm confused here, did some thing happen that I missed? I know there was a clash of opinions in the thread for mounting shuttles on hulls when it became a talk about boarding shuttles. But hey Corjay, you run your games however you like. They are your games after all. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 February 20, 2008 - 5:23pm | I do agree with the premise of your post, Corjay. It was perhaps riddled with some jaded spite, but the premise is solid. We all have opinions on how Sci Fi gaming is best. We all voice our opinions. But let's all be respectful of other's opinions. If we don't have something constructive, let's not post. Anyone making a post in a completely negative manner should be reported, and I'll deal with them. Otherwise, just please understand that everything on this site is opinion and nothing more. I have no problem with you wanting to ground your sci-fi in science, Corjay. I have a general preference for that as well. I also enjoy adding elements of the unknown... or abstracting things that I add for simplicity's sake (artificial gravity, for instance) into some "technology" that just works, without science needed to back it up. My only problem is with posts by some people who state opinions in a way that it comes across as an authoritative stonewall, stating "that's not possible" and encouraging people to not do something or to do it the "right" way... those are the only types of opinionated posts that annoy me. The meal of Sci Fi has a ton of flavors. Let's all just feast on it. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
 February 20, 2008 - 5:56pm | Opinions are like bellybuttons/a$$####s everybody has one. I do not agree with the "slapping someone"(not intended as real, figuratively speaking) over their "opinion" is just not cool at all. I believe in it's my piazza if I want pineapple on so what. And, if you don't like it I'll get half without. Each person has their own flavor of science and fiction. Some people have a hard time seeing which is which, but who cares as long as someone has fun playing is all that counts. I like to see others ideas. It tells me people are thinking about what the future could be like to them in their opinion. And, I'll tell you some are very interesting to read about, some are just down right fun, funny, hilarious. Your CleanCutRogueness, I like the food analogy, with no anchovies please. |
 February 20, 2008 - 7:26pm | Hey stop bantering him. And w00t has some points. Your materials submitted arent play-tested. You change and mix and match things too much to where they are unplayable. You accused me on not following canon (which we dont always have to follow), and denied me the right to place my views on the Private Sector. This made it clear that I wasnt welcome to my project's ways. Thats why I withdrawled my project and my support for Delta Dawn. So you should appologize as well and have w00t do the same. From there just put it aside. If I remember correctly this sort of thing is what killed the SFDT......just my short and sweet rant....... Confucious Says: Man with one chopstick go hungry. Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement. |
February 20, 2008 - 7:27pm | Thank you for your comments. Yes, it's about flavor. Along with flavors of opinions are flavors of people and flavors of how to say things. My opinions are stated in the way of trying to influence people, and I don't apologize for that. That's me. I'm a debater (not an attacker) and that's what debaters do. Some people don't like it. Maybe it rubs them the wrong way, but I don't attack people just for having an opinion, and I don't think it right that anyone does, no matter how it is expressed. The best conversations I've ever been in are with people like myself who speak in a way to try to influence but are on the opposite side of the discussion from me. It makes for awesome debate that rarely gets heated, and if it does begin to get heated, we pull back a little and get back into it. Again, I'm not going to apologize for that. If someone doesn't like it there are ways to deal with it besides making public attacks. The reason I posted this rant was because I've seen and been attacked several times in the last few weeks to the point where every time I log in, I'm expecting someone to attack me or someone else over something completely unimportant. Again, if someone makes an attack, the person that needs to be checked is the attacker. If someone attacks the same person right after someone else just attacked them, the first attack doesn't justify the second. They're both crappy to do. And if you attack someone, you'd better expect retaliation. No attacker gets the right to say that the person retaliating is in the wrong for retaliating. Just to be sure everyone understands, I posted these things to get it off my chest. If I don't, it will just build up and poison me until it bursts out on the wrong person at the wrong time. |
February 20, 2008 - 7:50pm | Hey stop bantering him. And w00t has some points. Your materials submitted arent play-tested. You change and mix and match things too much to where they are unplayable. You accused me on not following canon (which we dont always have to follow), and denied me the right to place my views on the Private Sector. This made it clear that I wasnt welcome to my project's ways. Thats why I withdrawled my project and my support for Delta Dawn. So you should appologize as well and have w00t do the same. From there just put it aside. If I remember correctly this sort of thing is what killed the SFDT......just my short and sweet rant....... Again, I don't apologize for being me. If it makes a person uncomfortable, it is their responsibility to inform the person that makes them uncomfortable and do it in a way that is not an attack. Is it impossible? No. Is it hard? No. How you just expressed yourself proves it. You could have done it a lot sooner and seen some results. You still will. I didn't just suddenly declare w00t my enemy just because he disagreed with my rant. He instead chose something I said and used it as an attack, rather than commenting on the rant. I said he has turned me into his enemy because he has made multiple attacks on me without provocation. Meaning, I did NOTHING to cause ANY of his attacks on me. I'm not looking for sympathy by saying that. I'm trying to make a point.w00t got caught up in other peoples' views and let himself get swept up in attacking me at will. Where does it end? By turning me into the robot that acts the way he wants me to act? That is not a good way to go in life. He is the one that has changed. I've been around for almost a year now and haven't changed, but after knowing w00t for 6 or 7 months now, NOW suddenly he wants to make attacks on me out of the blue. Do you see the inconsistency here? I haven't changed in my attitudes, but he he has—for the worse. This isn't how a person should treat a friend. This is how they treat enemies. If you read my profile, you will find that I'm consistent in how I deal with people. Once can be overlooked. Twice is an emerging pattern. Three times is an unbreakable pattern that he has now entered into. Even if he stopped his attacks, I now know what he thinks every time I speak, but I don't know whether he's going to attack me or not, and I'd prefer not. |
February 20, 2008 - 8:24pm | You...denied me the right to place my views on the Private Sector. I have to say something about this. I denied nothing to you. I made a request and it was your responsibility to turn me down, but you instead agreed. A person cannot blame someone else for their own lack of self-determination. If someone asks you a question, it doesn't automatically mean that they're strongarming you. I'm not gonig to apologize for something that was someone else's responsiblity.Also, in the end, when you reclaimed your project, I agreed, as I was seeing where there was a need for your project to be separate. As regards my changing and mixing and matching things, yes, I do, but anything that is unplayable gets tossed out. I've done it several times. Again, I won't apologize, because that's how you find the stuff that works. If you find that something I did is unplayable, guess whose responsiblity it is to tell me? I'm adventurous and go into new territory. That scares people, but there's a difference between changing up mechanics and changing up canon. Gargoyle 2k7 started a new project that allows people to create any campaign they want. My house rules project allows people to make all the house rules they want for their games without having to make whole projects if they don't want to. I provide debate and state my opinion. I stated my opinion that your project was changing canon. It is your responsiblity (not mine) for you to inform me that you don't care. Am I wrong? Is it somehow my responsiblity to guess what you're thinking? I don't read minds and I'm not going to apologize for that. |
 February 20, 2008 - 9:20pm | HOLY CRAP--CAN WE STOP BICKERING LIKE CHILDREN. Post your point and don't be rude. Ain't that kinda simple!!! Sergeant |
February 20, 2008 - 9:56pm | That's a good point of debate. What is "rude"? I've observed that people generally have two views of rude: 1) unwarranted attacks and 2) things that step on their social toes. Interestingly, it's the unwarranted attacks that don't usually get recognized as rude, but instead, it's the flimsy reason for the unwarranted attack. Someone got pissed off because someone else said something that others disagreed with or said it in a way that others didn't like. On a personal note, I categorize condescention as an attack, because one person is effectively calling the other person a child by speaking that way. That's an assault on their character as well as on their right to be who they want to be. In debate, that is known as an "ad hominem" or "to the person", or in some text books: "attack against the man". When I say something 'steps on their social toes,' I'm referring to stuff they just don't agree with or they think their self-determination is being challenged. The problem is that ANYONE that tries to convince you of something or influence you in any way is challenging your self-determenation. We get an onslaught of that type of thing all day long by TV commercials, TV shows, movies, music, employers, relatives, politicians, talk show hosts, news, etc. But a person comes on to the most public of all venues and somehow expects that not to happen on a public forum? Does this make sense, that they're somehow expecting everyone to mind their P's and Q's and not try to convince or influence them in any way? You see, people need to re-evaluate what pisses them off. It's not me for trying to convince or influence them in any way. They're pissed off because they haven't learned how to say "no" or "I don't agree". They haven't learned how to express themselves in this way without getting pissed off. They haven't learned how to control their emotions. The same goes for those who don't speak up when they should. They stay quiet instead of saying "no". They pack up and leave instead of saying "I'm going to do my own thing". That isn't my fault. We are each Captains of our own lives. |
 February 20, 2008 - 9:51pm | HOLY CRAP--CAN WE STOP BICKERING LIKE CHILDREN. Post your point and don't be rude. Ain't that kinda simple!!! Have to agree with that one. Let bygones be... Most of us joined here because we enjoy Star Frontiers. I do my best to ignore the ones that joined to be blatant dumb-asses. Those individuals (ok, mainly Wulfe) have been called down on a regular basis, but some of you let yourselves get pulled into the crap those individuals start. If you notice, those people make one or two posts, then dont post again, yet for page after page, people still rant about the stupid stuff that was stated by one person. Lets get back to the basis behind this website is dedicated to: Star Frontiers. Please delete this entire thread before it takes over and destroys this website. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
February 20, 2008 - 9:54pm | Well, at least let people get things off their chest before that happens. Sometimes a thread like this is necessary to relieve the bottleneck of tensions. |
February 20, 2008 - 10:01pm | Well, at least let people get things off their chest before that happens. Sometimes a thread like this is necessary to relieve the bottleneck of tensions. True, it did help me a bit.  Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
February 21, 2008 - 11:25am | I like cheese. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
