Anonymous December 14, 2007 - 2:00pm | What types of objects are in a system? Obviously the star. Here is my list :
Refer to: Planet Randomization Control and Stats |
Corjay (not verified) December 14, 2007 - 2:23pm | Moons Space debris (discarded technology, space trash, and orbiting satellites found in populated or explored systems) |
w00t (not verified) December 14, 2007 - 2:51pm | Moons your saying Moons around a planet? if they are in space would these be considered minor-planets or asteroids? |
jaguar451 December 14, 2007 - 5:45pm | Multiple stars (binary systems) Natural only? Or: Space stations, starships, mining opperations, settlements, aliens, |
Corjay (not verified) December 14, 2007 - 6:02pm | Moons your saying Moons around a planet? if they are in space would these be considered minor-planets or asteroids? A moon can be an asteroid or the result of a congealed asteroid belt, and could conceivably be inhabitable depending on special conditions, but the fact is, they act differently than planets. Planets are defined as bodies that orbit a stellar event, but moons are defined as bodies, satallites, that orbit planets. Just because they're made of the same substance doesn't mean they're classified the same way. An asteroid is made of the same stuff as the planets, but it's not a planet. The same goes for moons. Moons are made of the same stuff as asteroids and planets, but they are not planets simply because they act differently. If you classified every planet as an asteroid, what would this tell you about the system? Likewise, if you classify every moon as a planet, what does this tell you about the system? Both would be deceptive and inspire inaccurate interpretations. |
Corjay (not verified) December 14, 2007 - 6:05pm | By the way, it is not necessary to record objects that orbit planets at all. That information should be attached to the planet alone, not the system, so disregard my suggestion, or interpret it as a suggestion to take moons and planetary rings and orbital debris out of the whole system equation, revealing them only for specific planetary information. |
Rum Rogue December 14, 2007 - 7:20pm | How about asteroids that are made of loose aggregate? Instead of it being made of solid rock and minerals, you have a mass of basically sand and softball sized particalls that are held in a group by static charge, gravity, or slight magnetic charge. It would be massive enough to made a radar image, but yet the mass of it would be way off compared to a solid asteroid of the same size. Your ship would sink into it if you tried to land on it, and you could dig your way into it easier than diggin in sand at the beach. Read about that one in of Ben Bova's books. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
Sargonarhes December 14, 2007 - 11:04pm | What about rogue moons or planetary objects? I seem to remember one of the reason they dropped Pluto from planet status to dwarf planet is because they found some rock not in a fixed orbit around the sun bigger than Pluto was. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
Corjay (not verified) December 15, 2007 - 4:03am | The aggregate asteroid is good (and good science). Perhaps have a percentage of asteroids that are aggregate so that when a person wants to land on one, they roll to see if it's aggregate. As for "rogue planets", the idea of a rogue planet is that it is not orbiting a sun. Neither size nor content determine a body to be a rogue planet. Also, I don't think Pluto is classified as even a dwarf planet. It is considered a satellite of serius, which is now classified as a dwarf planet. The whole Pluto/Serius debate is all apples and oranges to me. I see them as binary. |
GJD December 15, 2007 - 8:01am | Ummm... Plutos' satelite is Charon. Pluto and Charon do share a binary point, making them a double planet, but Charon still counts as Pluto's satellite as it orbits a barycenter oriented with a bias to pluto (i.e. the common point is cloer to pluto than Charon).
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Corjay (not verified) December 15, 2007 - 8:13am | Yeah, the name "Serius" didn't sound right, but I was feeling too much like crud to do any research on the name. Thanks for the clarification. Just one thing. You said "The new IAU definition places pluto as a Dwarf Planet" and then immediately said "Pluto failed the planet test on point 2." What does this mean? Point 2 in your list discusses dwarf planets, while point (b) for both planets and dwarf planets says the same thing. If you could clarify what you meant by "point 2", I'd appreciate it. Thanks. |
Sargonarhes December 15, 2007 - 9:58am | Pluto fails on #2 because it's orbit crosses over that of Neptune's. Meaning every so often Pluto is closer than Neptune. Not to mention the feild of other rocks, drebits and such they've found out beyond Pluto that it hasn't quite cleared either. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
GJD December 15, 2007 - 5:35pm | Sorry, I meant it failed to qualify as a planet since it hasn't cleared it's own orbit - there are still large amounts of other icy junk inside an out of Plutos orbit. Arguably it isn't in orbit around the sun either, it's in orbit around the barycentre with Charon, which itself is in orbit around the sun. |
Sam December 17, 2007 - 12:14pm | Don't forget those asteroid collections - (the Trojans?, either preceeding or following Jupiter). I think these collections are at the Legrange points. Not all planets would have such collections, but some would/could. |
Rum Rogue December 17, 2007 - 12:26pm | good point Sam. that reminds me about the Oort cloud as well. Doesnt Pluto sometimes kick some of that into the inner solar system? Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
w00t (not verified) December 17, 2007 - 1:10pm | thx for the input. I'm trying to balance simplicity with realism. My table has "asteroid belt" which is only one aspect of asteroids and would seem boring/plain to have in a cool d100 random system generator! :-) |
Rum Rogue December 17, 2007 - 1:38pm | and for fans of Master of Orion: Giant Space Amoeba! In one of my Rifts books, there is a random encounter chart for open space. Some of which are literally random damage to the pc's ship from a distant battle. Basically a stray laser beam hits the ship for a fraction of its normal damage. The battle cant even be registered on scanners. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
Corjay (not verified) December 17, 2007 - 2:16pm | that reminds me about the Oort cloud as well. Doesnt Pluto sometimes kick some of that into the inner solar system? |
Sam December 18, 2007 - 8:36am | Also, don't forget the Nemisis Theory? The idea that the sun has a brown dwarf brother which dips close enough to the Oort cloud to disturb debris and send comets into inner Sol system once every 54 million years or so (I think it is 54 or 64, cannot remember). Some claim that THAT increase in Comet activity explains the periodic mass extinctions on Earth. A distant Brown Dwarf would have to be jumped to, since it would be extremely distant -- also it would be very difficult to detect. However it could have some interesting things orbiting it ... The giant space amoeba is always good. |
Corjay (not verified) December 18, 2007 - 9:01am | Nemisis theory? That seems a bit far fetched (a brown dwarf in the vacinity of our solar system would be easily detected by its gravitational effect on the planets and even our sun). Do you have a link to some information on that theory? |
Sam December 18, 2007 - 11:27am | I guess it would have been better to dub it hypothesis... Here is a wiki ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_(star) A couple articles http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Evidence_Mounts_For_Companion_Star_To_Our_Sun.html http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/nemesis_010320-1.html Looks like faculty or student sites with interesting data and graphs... http://swanson.bol.ucla.edu/ http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/lbl-nem.htm http://muller.lbl.gov/papers/Lunar_impacts_Nemesis.pdf |
Sargonarhes December 21, 2007 - 5:25pm | I don't know about the Nemisis theory. If they can as they claim to be able to, find brown dwarfs in other solar systems. Then another Jupiter or larger sized object out past Pluto and the Oort cloud shouldn't be like finding a needle in a hay stack. Seeing as they find these by watching the wobble of the star just use the same methods on our own Sun. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
Sam December 22, 2007 - 6:55am | It takes a long time and concerted effort to make these calculations about each individual star and as one article mentioned they havn't performed distance calculations on most of the stars we see. The brown dwarf in question may be plainly visible. Also the wobble may be detected, but as we are seeing with that new planetoid, they have to make long term observations to be sure. And at that point, just because you're pretty sure you see a wobble doesn't mean you can instantly find the culprit. It will take a lot of searching. |
w00t (not verified) December 22, 2007 - 8:02am | However, for SF gaming, throughing a distant brown dwarf out towards or beyond an Oort cloud would prove very interesting. Is it the location of a secret installation? Are pseudo planets or asteroids or moons orbiting it? Was it a natural binary or an ancient rogue dwarf? Does it radiate enough heat and/or light to create its own biozone and is there a planet/planetoid in that range? again, nice. one of the points of SF and the Random System project is to provide possibilities for your imagination. hey, that's catchy. |
Sundog December 31, 2007 - 7:32pm | When I wrote a similar accessory for the Alternity game, I split up a system's components by a kind of class system. Firstly I detailed the star or stars in a system, from there I generated planets and asteroid belts or clusters*, and then each planet generated any moons or rings it might or might not have. So, you have the primary star (or stellar-mas object such as a neutron star or black hole), any companion stars or sub-stellar objects (ie, brown dwarfs). Then you have the planets. You can have gas giants, ice giants, water giants (conjectural), rocky planets, rocky planets with lots of water, rock/ice planets, "dwarf planets" (I went with the term planetoid), and asteroids and comets proper. For anything smaller than, say, the Moon, I'd say just let the GM put them where they need to be, and ignore the main mass of them. Just note where clusters and belts form. *I'm still not happy with the asteroid generation mechanic. It appears that in real life, asteroid belts remain when a big planet interdicts planet formation through orbital resonance effects. Getting that boiled to to something simple for an RPG is something I haven't quite cracked yet, but when I do it'll go in the new edition. |
GJD January 1, 2008 - 4:37pm | Bear in mind that most asteroid belts as seen in popular sci-fi (qv Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones) are wildly unrealistic. Anything that densely packed would have glommed together through gravitational attraction long ago. Even the most densly populated parts of the asteroid belt, or the trojans, will have a staellar density of asteroids so low that if you were standing on one, you wouldn't be able to see another one with the naked eye. So, a realistic asteroid belt is basically a little bit denser than surrounding space, but nowhere near anything like as dense as the asteroids presented in KH or other media. Of course, that is terribly dull for gaming purposes, as it gets rid of any opportunities for fancy flying and slamming ships into hurtling chunks of rock at fantastic speeds for fun and ptofit. G. |
Sargonarhes January 1, 2008 - 7:02pm | Oh I already figured that out. If it was so densely packed as popular sci-fi movie like to think, how could the Voyagers space probes have safely navigated them. Yeah we're pretty hard on some things in sci-fi, sometimes we'll let it slide for entertainment. But we'll still ask questions that leave people dumbfounded like. "Why orbit Yavin? Why didn't Tarkin just have the Death Star shoot through Yavin at the rebel base?" They'll try and answer it, but they never had to. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
Stelk August 30, 2012 - 1:25am | Stray or Alien or Darelic craft or Tech Cogito ergo sum; I think therefore I am. Batty [Blade Runner] I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |