 December 2, 2007 - 4:13am | So let's hear what you'd like to see in this area. I mentioned a basic guideline of +5/10/15 depending on simplicity/complexity of situations, with the Military PSA being up in the air at the moment...I was going to introduce artillery grade weapons (heavy laser, rocket launcher, recoilless rifle) and give a -10 penalty when using, obviously a PSA:Mil can negate that one. Perhaps allow the +5/10/15 to apply for extreme/long/medium ranges as well, with the premise that anyone can fire a weapon at shorter ranges but it takes training to hit targets farther away. Technical skill resolutions for the most part should rely on the character's LOG score, Medical could rely on INT, and PsychoSocial could fall under PER checks with the modifiers. Non PSA characters can attempt resolutions at half that with no bonus. |
 December 8, 2007 - 10:12am | Okay, try this: Primary Skill Area At the start of the game, each player must choose one Primary Skill Area (PSA) as his character’s career. This will never change. The character starts with Level 1 in that PSA. For each level in that PSA the character gets a +5 bonus per level to ability checks up to level 6. To move up in levels, you must complete a number of adventures as shown in the Skill Level Table.
To use a PSA, use the applicable ability score plus the PSA level bonus. Skill checks work just like ability checks: roll d100 and try to roll less than or equal to the PSA’s chance to succeed. You may only perform a skill check once in the Basic game. There are four Primary Skill Areas (PSAs), each with an associated ability set (These do not preclude the use of other abilities in their profession. It just means these are the usual goto abilities associated with it.): Explorer PSA deals with the intelligent races and their surroundings, including botany, zoology, finding directions, and social interaction. An Explorer may map, navigate, and plot routes in any region of a planet or stars with a successful skill check. They use PER/LDR for dealing with others and with animals and surviving in hostile environments Military Enforcer PSA deals with demolitions, combat, military operations, and law enforcement. A Military Enforcer may operate any weapon with a successful skill check. They use STR/STA to determine hits in combat and hand-to-hand combat and overcome combat damage and physical exertion. Science Specialist (SciSpec) PSA deals with physical and psychological sciences affecting genetics, health and fitness. A science specialist may cure diseases and treat mental illnesses with a successful skill check. They use INT/LOG for problem solving, coming up with cures and straightening out peoples' problems. Technological Expert (TechEx) PSA deals with various types of technology, including machines, computers, and robots. A Technological Expert may drive or fly and fix any vehicle or spaceship with a successful skill check. They use DEX/RS for handling the delicate hand work and responding quickly and surely to crisis situations. | ||||||||||||||||
 December 8, 2007 - 11:11pm | EDIT : read in more detail, which invalidated a lot.... Wow, lots of discussion, but my wife isn't giving me much time to read / comment.... * One thing is that I like SS key attribute list -- For example, IMO, Military person mostly uses ranged weapons, so DEX over STR for 'to hit' (and for simplicity, use DEX for 'to hit' in both ranges & melee), and then their STA determines how long they live.... * I liked SS's idea that one starts at Level 0 -- abilities are already so high, don't have that much room for progression before things become auto-success. As for progression, if not going to go with XP (flat 5XP per level, or 2 XP per ability point), I also liked SS's progression (or even slower.) Level 1 after 1 adventure, two more adventures for second level, etc. Also, a level cap of 3 seams reasonable to prevent auto-success. Might be a little less of an issue if the starting max ability were 60 or 65 instead of 70, but unless go with the advanced rule's 1/2 ability score, the challenge goes away quickly, IMO.... * Corjay -- I suppose the main cocern I have with non-PSA task being at 1/2 the ability score is combat.... A LOT of the game is combat. In Advanced, non-military folks tend to take a skill in at least one weapon, and everyone has the same 1/2 ability, so everyone starts in the same ballpark. In this basic ruleset, a military person on day one will have at least double the change to hit of a non-Military PSA (investment in DEX, full ability score, potentially +5% if start at lvl 1.) Might be realistic, but not sure how much 'fun' for a balanced party, and may make scenario design more complex (the difficulty of combat is SIGNIFICANTLY impacted by the PSAs selected.) IMO, options could be things like: 1) -5% for any non-PSA skill checks 2) 1/2 ability score for non-PSA skill checks EXCEPT for basic activities, including simple weapons training (no demolitions, heavy weapons, martial arts, etc, but everyone can shoot something or other.) And can't do hard non-PSA stuff at all (heart surgery for a military type, for example.) Or, maybe the discussion passed me by and no penalties (I don't recall seeing anything in your PSA description on how ability checks are handled for non-PSA skills), although I think I might like option 2 above.... * And it also seems this is probably turning into 2 sets of rules, one for Basic project, and for AER basic rules, as we're discussing multiple facets of two rulesets in one thread..... |
December 9, 2007 - 12:23am | 1) I think either one key ability or an ability pair should be used to maintain simplicity. Adding other abilities to make a list restricts it, looks messy, and loses meaning. It also suggests that those are the only abilities that can be used, but providing just one or a pair with the note that they do not restrict the application of the skill bonus to other abilities is the way to go. 2) Starting at level 0 is meaningless unless you do 1/2 score for unskilled and full score for skilled. First, without a clear distinction between skilled and unskilled, it's contrary to the normal operation of the expanded game, and second, it's the same as being unskilled. It's meaningless and gives you no edge from other characters in a first adventure. 3) We can easily add the weapons rule. Also, I've been thinking we could add a rule about weapons saying that all characters can use pistols and grenades, but must have the Military PSA to use rifles and other weapons. I'm opposed to straight penalties to unskilled characters (such as -5). It contradicts the Expanded game. I suggested the 1/2 ability earlier in this convo, but SS seems opposed to it. 4) The only difference between the two versions is that the AER set has the Biosocial PSA split into two PSA's and mine does not show things I'm opposed to. Everything else is still being discussed. If you review all the times I've posted the PSA list, you'll notice differences in each one, as I've been making room for the ideas of others, making constant adjustments. My ideas are already on the board and I've made consessions. SS seemed agreeable in his last post and made a suggestion that I quickly incorporated. We all have our own ideas about how it should be done, and each of us would come up with our own, but if we all work together, then we can come up with something we all can agree on. If you want to know where we agree, let's first discuss where each of us is unwilling to bend. For me, I'm unwilling to bend on completely changing how things operate from the Expanded game. That is, whatever mechanic is used for the Basic game, it should at least resemble and be treated as a more simple version of what we see in the Expanded game. If you change the mechanic entirely, what's the point to even calling it the Basic game? You might as well call it the "Other game", distinguishing it from the real Basic game as well as from the Expanded game. |
December 9, 2007 - 12:57am | Here's another offering, adding jag's and my suggestions in the weapons section (minus things I think don't mesh with established rules, of course, as explained in my last post): Primary Skill Area At the start of the game, each player must choose one Primary Skill Area (PSA) as his character’s career. This will never change. The character starts with Level 1 in that PSA. For each level in that PSA the character gets a +5 bonus per level to ability checks up to level 6. To move up in levels, you must complete a number of adventures as shown in the Level Progress Table.
To use a PSA, use the applicable ability score plus the PSA level bonus. Skill checks work just like ability checks: roll d100 and try to roll less than or equal to the PSA’s chance to succeed. You may only perform a skill check once in the Basic game. There are four Primary Skill Areas (PSAs), each with an associated ability set (These do not preclude the use of other abilities in their profession. It just means these are the usual goto abilities associated with it.): Explorer PSA deals with the intelligent races and their surroundings, including botany, zoology, finding directions, and social interaction. An Explorer may map, navigate, and plot routes in any region of a planet or stars with a successful skill check. They use PER/LDR for dealing with others and with animals and surviving in hostile environments Military Enforcer PSA deals with demolitions, combat, military operations, and law enforcement. A Military Enforcer may operate any weapon with a successful skill check. They use STR/STA to determine hits in combat and hand-to-hand combat and overcome combat damage and physical exertion. Science Specialist (SciSpec) PSA deals with physical and psychological sciences affecting genetics, health and fitness. A science specialist may cure diseases and treat mental illnesses with a successful skill check. They use INT/LOG for problem solving, coming up with cures and straightening out peoples' problems. Technological Expert (TechEx) PSA deals with various types of technology, including machines, computers, and robots. A Technological Expert may drive or fly and fix any vehicle or spaceship with a successful skill check. They use DEX/RS for handling the delicate hand work and responding quickly and surely to crisis situations. Using Weapons All characters may use any type of pistol or grenade as skilled. Only a Military Enforcer may use other types of weapons. Weapons use requires 1/2 DEX and +10 per level for skill checks. The question is whether the 1/2 ability should be applied to ALL ability/skill checks, using +10, instead of +5 skill level bonus. By the way, a 3rd level cap doesn't seem to make sense to me. 5 x 6 is only 30. A person would have to have 70 to begin with (100), and even then still has to deal with situational modifiers. If you use 1/2 ability score and +10 per level, then you would start with 35 max and get up to +60 (95), again with situational modifiers. I prefer the 1/2 ability score, like I said, but like I said, I think SS is opposed. | ||||||||||||||||
December 9, 2007 - 11:56am | Going to the 'unwilling to bend on', I don't know if there is a specific item, just the general goals of quick, easy, fun, and general compatibility with existing rules. And trying to find something that fits between the two current sides of the rules: "Canon" Basic (the one sentence description): anyone can do anything with the same proficiency, full ability score for resolution, no progression. My interpretation: Primarily for newbies, only used a few times (if at all / more than once.) Expanded rules: Can only perform trained skills, proficiency depends on the skill level. Resolution percentage varies by skill, but many start at 1/2 ability score, +10% per level. My interpretation: the intended primary rules for use. I suppose my point is that there are already fundamental differences (although as CleanCutRogue mentioned earlier in this thread, there are plenty of examples where Basic and Expanded/Advanced rules aren't completely compatable), but I also understand not wanting to limit fundamental differences. Ergo, I'm fine with no minus'. Then it gets to which rules to emulate more closely, for example examle, the Basic full ability resolution, or the expanded half. I'm still in the full ability resolution camp, as I think it speeds play. Which unfortunately makes it a little more difficult to add leveling to the basic game, as the base resolution is already quite high relative to the Expanded rules. A couple of quick points: * Associated ability set: I supposed one of my questions would be if newbies would pick high STR for a Military PSA, and then question why they can't hit with a gun.... * I don't have a good suggestion, but the above table is a little unclear if the #adventures is incremental or total.... AKA, two or three adventures total for lvl 3. * I think lvl 0 is workable, but I'm not wedded to the concept, so if majority want to start at +x / lvl 1, . |
December 9, 2007 - 10:21pm | The thing I hate about my condition (ADD/PTSD) is parts of my brain completely block off while other parts are working perfectly lucidly. I have to correct myself (See memory research as to why inaccurate recountings happen). I had apparently forgotten why I said 1/2 ability score. I originally suggested full ability for skilled, and half ability for unskilled. I apologize for giving the wrong account. That out of the way, after thinking about it, I prefer 1/2 ability for skilled, but I would prefer to stick as closely to the original Basic rules as possible while giving them a holistic treatment. I propose an accompanying rule for skills that should say that if skills are used in the Basic game, use 1/2 ability +10 per level. If skills are not used, then use full ability. Simple as that. So here's how it would look with that: You may choose to use skills in the Basic game. If you do, then use 1/2 ability for all checks plus any applicable skill bonus. Ability checks using skill bonuses are known as skill checks. If skills are not used in your game at all, then use the ability's full score for all ability checks. Situational modifiers apply in either case. Primary Skill Area At the start of the game, each player must choose one Primary Skill Area (PSA) as his character’s career. This will never change. The character starts with Level 1 in that PSA. For each level in that PSA the character gets a +10 bonus per level to ability checks up to level 6. To move up in levels, you must complete a number of adventures as shown in the Level Progress Table.
To use a PSA, use the applicable ability score plus the PSA level bonus. Skill checks work just like ability checks: roll d100 and try to roll less than or equal to the PSA’s chance to succeed. You may only perform a skill check once in the Basic game. There are four Primary Skill Areas (PSAs), each with an associated ability set (These do not preclude the use of other abilities in their profession. It just means these are the usual goto abilities associated with it.): Explorer PSA deals with the intelligent races and their surroundings, including botany, zoology, finding directions, and social interaction. An Explorer may map, navigate, and plot routes in any region of a planet or stars with a successful skill check. Military Enforcer PSA deals with demolitions, combat, military operations, and law enforcement. A Military Enforcer may operate any weapon with a successful skill check. Science Specialist (SciSpec) PSA deals with physical and psychological sciences affecting genetics, health and fitness. A science specialist may cure diseases and treat mental illnesses with a successful skill check. Technological Expert (TechEx) PSA deals with various types of technology, including machines, computers, and robots. A Technological Expert may drive or fly and fix any vehicle or spaceship with a successful skill check. Using Weapons All characters may use any type of pistol or grenade as skilled per their skill level. Only a Military Enforcer may use other types of weapons. Weapons use requires a DEX skill check. | ||||||||||||||||
December 9, 2007 - 10:19pm | By the way, as for associated abilities, I'm beginning to think the idea should just be dumped. I put into the rules I listed a statement clearly stating that the associated ability is not the only ability to use with the skill, but that, I guess, wouldn't be enough. It's pretty meaningless anyway. |
December 10, 2007 - 2:34am | I really feel that incorporating the 1/2 ability check drifts away from the basic premises of the Basic game. I like the basics laid down for the four classes, although I think it looks too much like Zeb's in some respects. But the foundation is there. Perhaps a little tweaking on that to define them a bit more, such as splitting off the single pairs for more definition along with the addition of "secondary" abilities that would make the profession useful. And the progression still looks a bit short, assuming those numbers are for total adventures played (Corjay did say it was D&D-esque so I was going by total XP from OD&D with that line of thought). Meaning after 1 game you go to LVL:2, after the next game you go to LVL:3, etc... That said, here's my offering/ammendment of previously quoted material (adventures played would be total games played): _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Primary Skill Area At the start of the game, each player must choose one Primary Skill Area (PSA) as his character’s career. This will never change. The character starts with Level 1 in that PSA. For each level in that PSA the character gets a +5 bonus per level to ability checks up to level 6. To move up in levels, you must complete a number of adventures as shown in the Level Progress Table.
To use a PSA, use the applicable ability score plus the PSA level bonus. Skill checks work just like ability checks: roll d100 and try to roll less than or equal to the PSA’s chance to succeed. You may only perform a skill check once in the Basic game. There are four Primary Skill Areas (PSAs), each with an associated ability set (These do not preclude the use of other abilities in their profession. It just means these are the usual goto abilities associated with it.): Explorer PSA deals with the intelligent races and their surroundings, including botany, zoology, finding directions, and social interaction. An Explorer may map, navigate, and plot routes in any region of a planet or stars with a successful skill check. They use PER/LDR for dealing with others and with animals and surviving in hostile environments. INT and STA would be secondary abilites as they have to be alert to their surroundings and capable of withstanding hostile environments. Military Enforcer PSA deals with demolitions, combat, military operations, and law enforcement. A Military Enforcer may operate any weapon with a successful skill check. They use STR and DEX to determine hits in hand-to-hand and rnaged weapon combat (respectively). STA and RS would be the secondary abilities as they determine the ability to overcome combat damage/physical exertion as well as racting to on-the-spot activities as they occur. Science Specialist (SciSpec) PSA deals with physical and psychological sciences affecting genetics, health and fitness. A science specialist may cure diseases and treat mental illnesses with a successful skill check. They use INT/LOG for problem solving, coming up with cures and straightening out peoples' problems. PER & LDR would be secondary abilities as this will be used to interact with others on a frequent basis. Technological Expert (TechEx) PSA deals with various types of technology, including machines, computers, and robots. A Technological Expert may drive or fly and fix any vehicle or spaceship with a successful skill check. Like a SciSpec, they use INT/LOG for problem solving, diagnostics, and intricate repair work. DEX & RS are the secondary abilities, for delicate hand work along with responding quickly and surely to crisis situations. Using Weapons All characters may use any type of non-ordinance weaponry with no penalties. Only a Military Enforcer may use the ordinance grade weapons (rocket launchers, grenade rifles, heavy laser, recoilless rifle) without incurring a penalty. Ranged weapon use requires DEX and +5 per level for skill checks, hand weapons requires a STR +5 per level check. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ I ammended the weapon use...I have no formal military training and I do quite well with a handgun, rifle, and even with a fully automatic submachine gun I've gotten decent groupings. Based on that I didn't feel that a non-Mil PSA should be restricted from rifles. | ||||||||||||||||
December 10, 2007 - 5:12pm | Shadow Shack -- I like your version the best so far.... [Quote]I like the basics laid down for the four classes, although I think it looks too much like Zeb's in some respects. But the foundation is there. Perhaps a little tweaking on that to define them a bit more, such as splitting off the single pairs for more definition along with the addition of "secondary" abilities that would make the profession useful. I agree -- while I overall like the split into four classes, it does need a bit of tweaking. BTW, anything from my earlier attempt at "enhanceing" the definition that can be leveraged? I know would need to remove the references to 'Professionals', the names are different, and I've removed the 'associated abilities' as I like your above, but.... Explorer PSAs operate as guides, scouts, or scientists for scientific or military expeditions. Explorer skills deal with the exploration of worlds, including wilderness survival, Botony, Zoology, archeology, foreign languages, and Exobiology. An Explorer may map, navigate, and plot routes in any region of a planet or stars with a successful skill check. They use PER/LDR for dealing with others and with animals and surviving in hostile environments. INT and STA would be secondary abilites as they have to be alert to their surroundings and capable of withstanding hostile environments. Military Enforcer PSAs are police officers, porporate security personnel, private investigators, and mercenary soldiers. A Military Enforcer may operate any weapon with a successful skill check. They use STR and DEX to determine hits in hand-to-hand and rnaged weapon combat (respectively). STA and RS would be the secondary abilities as they determine the ability to overcome combat damage/physical exertion as well as racting to on-the-spot activities as they occur. Science Specialist (SciSpec) PSAs are doctors, psychologists, medics, or EMTs. Their skills deal with medical and psychological pursuits. A science specialist may cure diseases and treat mental illnesses with a successful skill check. Technological Expert (TechEx) PSA are mechanics, pilots, drivers, computer experts, or any position working with various types of technology, including machines, computers, and robots. A Technological Expert may drive or fly and fix any vehicle or spaceship with a successful skill check. Like a SciSpec, they use INT/LOG for problem solving, diagnostics, and intricate repair work. DEX & RS are the secondary abilities, for delicate hand work along with responding quickly and surely to crisis situations. |
 December 10, 2007 - 2:01pm | Military Explorer Medical Technological Expert If we don't use the standard Military, Biosocial, and Technological PSAs, this feels like a house rule rather than a Basic edition of the game.... I'm on board with whatever you want to do, but that's just a criticism I'm sure we'll hear, so I'm presenting it now. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
December 10, 2007 - 4:49pm | Military Explorer Medical Technological Expert If we don't use the standard Military, Biosocial, and Technological PSAs, this feels like a house rule rather than a Basic edition of the game.... I'm on board with whatever you want to do, but that's just a criticism I'm sure we'll hear, so I'm presenting it now. Sorry, I meant to change back to the "Standard" ZG verbiage for that as well, but ran out of break time at work.... I'll updated before others see.... ;-) Although FWIW, this entire thing is a 'house' rule, unless enough people adopt it, then it's a 'community' rule.... ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) |
December 10, 2007 - 4:49pm | Using Weapons All characters may use any type of non-ordinance weaponry with no penalties. Only a Military Enforcer may use the ordinance grade weapons (rocket launchers, grenade rifles, heavy laser, recoilless rifle) without incurring a penalty. Ranged weapon use requires DEX and +5 per level for skill checks, hand weapons requires a STR +5 per level check. I'm fine with rifle for all, although I'm a little confuses with the +5 per skill level. You're not saying everyone gets +5 per skill level, are you? Just the military folks, right? Probably adding complexity, but I noticed Zebs gives Explorers P.G.S. as a PSA skill, but not Laser, so could potentially do something like that for all non-Military PSAs in these rules.... Even grenades might be argued.... "What does this contact vs timed switch do? What happens if I turn this dial here?" |
December 12, 2007 - 9:47pm | I'm fine with rifle for all, although I'm a little confuses with the +5 per skill level. You're not saying everyone gets +5 per skill level, are you? Just the military folks, right? Right, just the PSA:Military gets the +5 to hit/level bonus. The grenade arguement is a good one, although since the doze grenade is part of the Standard Equipment Pack it's safe to presume that most Frontier denizens are familiar with their use...which also translates to other grenades. After all, one doesn't require a Tech PSA to operate the chronocom. If we don't use the standard Military, Biosocial, and Technological PSAs, this feels like a house rule rather than a Basic edition of the game... I tend to agree. Keeping the basic three retains the canon feel (not to mention it blends with the Online Character Generator software here). While Environmental skills truly do not fall under the same heading as Medical and Psychological fields, it is probably best lumped in with them over Military or Technological without resulting in a "Zebulon's Guide to Basic". Okay, current revamp: Primary Skill Area At the start of the game, each player must choose one Primary Skill Area (PSA) as his character’s career. This will never change. The character starts with Level 1 in that PSA. For each level in that PSA the character gets a +5 bonus per level to ability checks up to level 6. To move up in levels, you must complete a number of adventures as shown in the Level Progress Table.
To use a PSA, use the applicable ability score plus the PSA level bonus. Skill checks work just like ability checks: roll d100 and try to roll less than or equal to the PSA’s chance to succeed. You may only perform a skill check once in the Basic game. There are three Primary Skill Areas (PSAs), each with an associated ability set (These do not preclude the use of other abilities in their profession. It just means these are the usual goto abilities associated with it.): Military PSA deals with demolitions, combat, military operations, and law enforcement. These characters tend to be police officers, corporate security personnel, private investigators, bodyguards, enforcers, bounty hunters, and mercenary soldiers. A Military PSA character may operate any weapon with a successful skill check. They use STR and DEX to determine hits in hand-to-hand and ranged weapon combat (respectively). STA and RS would be the secondary abilities as they determine the ability to overcome combat damage/physical exertion as well as racting to on-the-spot activities as they occur. Technological PSA are characters that specialize in mechanics, electronics, machinists, pilots, drivers, computer experts, or any position working with various types of technology, including machines, computers, and robots. A Technological Expert may drive or fly and fix any vehicle or piece of equipment with a successful skill check. They use INT/LOG for problem solving, diagnostics, and intricate repair work. DEX & RS are the secondary abilities, for delicate hand work along with responding quickly and surely to crisis situations. BioSocial PSA deals with physical and psychological sciences affecting genetics, health and fitness, and dealing with the intelligent races and their surroundings (including botany, zoology, finding directions, and social interaction). A BioSocialist may cure diseases and treat mental illnesses with a successful skill check. They may operate as guides, scouts, or scientists for scientific or military expeditions. BioSocial skills deal with the exploration of worlds, including wilderness survival, Botony, Zoology, archeology, foreign languages, and Exobiology. An BioSocialist may map, navigate, and plot routes in any region of a planet or stars with a successful skill check.They use INT/LOG for problem solving, coming up with cures and straightening out peoples' problems, along with remaining alert to their surroundings. PER & LDR would be secondary abilities as this will be used to interact with others on a frequent basis. Using Weapons All characters may use any type of non-ordinance weaponry with no penalties. Only a Military Enforcer may use the ordinance grade weapons (rocket launchers, grenade rifles, heavy laser, recoilless rifle) along with explosives without incurring a penalty. Ranged weapon attacks use the DEX ability score, while hand weapons use the STR ability score. Military PSA characters recieve a +5 per level bonus to either check. | ||||||||||||||||
December 12, 2007 - 8:20pm | Ranged weapon use requires DEX and +5 per level for skill checks, hand weapons requires a STR +5 per level check. I think that this is still a little confusing as written as to who gets the +5. I'd either remove the reference, or make it more explicit that only Military PSA folks get the +5, such as "Ranged weapon attacked use your DEX ability score, while hand weapons use your STR ability score. Military PSA characters at +5 per level to either check." |
December 12, 2007 - 8:29pm | FWIW, I still like the Explorer / Ranger PSA, but not a strong opinion either way, even if it is kinda a Basic ZG..... |
December 12, 2007 - 8:52pm | Ranged weapon use requires DEX and +5 per level for skill checks, hand weapons requires a STR +5 per level check. I think that this is still a little confusing as written as to who gets the +5. I'd either remove the reference, or make it more explicit that only Military PSA folks get the +5, such as Okay fixed that part. See original revamp/post. |
December 12, 2007 - 9:21pm | Doh! You copied my typo (danger of typing while the family is awake and distracting me... ;-) 'attacked' should be 'attacks' and 'recievea' should be 'receive a' |
December 12, 2007 - 10:18pm | As I said before, the division of four PSA's is meant only for the AER. I recommend using the 3 PSA's for this project. When I post the 4, I'm just keeping the work on AER syncronized with this project. I'll start using the 3 for the updates to keep it from being confusing. |
December 13, 2007 - 2:28pm | I'm totally on board with this approach :-) So, you'll only improve in your selected PSA. That's simple enough. Environmental skill was meant to be more scientific than you'd think, though it does include ranger-like abilities of sneaking around (for scouting, etc.) and survivalist training. But it does have an enviro-kit etc. In Star Frontiers, it's grouped under bio-social because they see it as a science I think... bio-social is a silly name for it, they should have named it "science" since most folks would be grouped under science, technology, or military. Note also that the Technician skill has lock-picking and find/remove security... your basic thief. I think they imagined that people would fall into one of these three categories of science/tech/military. But if you follow the rest of the genre they created, the players always play good guys - it's not meant to be a case where a player is a robin-hood type or a batman type - or even a gritty street-level type. Certainly not a criminal. So to de-emphasize these possible archetypes they folded certain abilities into valid professional archetypical roles. At least that's how I see it. *shrug* we work with what they gave us, ya know? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
December 14, 2007 - 7:27am | How are we covering non-PSA bonus, rolls, saves and the like? I forget.Will my character have the ability to increase skills in a non-PSA area? I really like the "Cinematic Martial Arts" in Issue 4 where you purchase Maneuvers (each costs 5 experience points). |
December 16, 2007 - 3:08am | How are we covering non-PSA bonus, rolls, saves and the like? It hasn't been completely addressed yet...there was a suggestion of allowing 1/2 ability checks, but to do so in all fairness non-military PSA characters would have to fire weapons at 1/2DEX and that really drifts from the original premise of the Basic Rules. Since a non-militray PSA can fire weapons at the base 1/2DEX I propose that non-tech & non-BioSocial be able to do the same, just without any applicable bonuses. After all, anyone can apply a stimdose or staydose in the original Basic rules, and ADE says only a medic may do so via the Administer Drugs subskill. |
December 16, 2007 - 10:33am | I think that it's a situational thing, which is up to the GM at the time -- simple things can do (albeit without the bonus available to the PSA person), but more complex items can only be done by a person in the PSA. Anyone can shoot a pistol or rifle at a reasonably high percentage, but not everyone can shoot a heavy weapon or place/defuse demolition charges. Repairing weapons probably only Military PSA as well. For medic, anyone can inject basic medicine, stayfield, curing diseas, operations are probably medical PSA only. Anyone can drive, maybe equivalent of changing the oil, but more serious repairs require a tech. Similar to computers, anyone can do basic stuff, but not everyone can program. |
December 16, 2007 - 10:59am | I think that it's a situational thing, which is up to the GM at the time -- simple things can do (albeit without the bonus available to the PSA person), but more complex items can only be done by a person in the PSA. This is how I see it. Anyone can shoot a pistol or rifle at a reasonably high percentage, but not everyone can shoot a heavy weapon or place/defuse demolition charges. Repairing weapons probably only Military PSA as well. For medic, anyone can inject basic medicine, stayfield, curing diseas, operations are probably medical PSA only. Anyone can drive, maybe equivalent of changing the oil, but more serious repairs require a tech. Similar to computers, anyone can do basic stuff, but not everyone can program. As for mixing PSA's, I figured with so much covered under each PSA, it would make characters too powerful to mix and match. It's just the Basic game, so keeping it simple, to me, means not mixing things up too much. Maintaining a puritanical approach to skills keeps it basic. A Referee can still house rule that characters may mix and match PSA's. We don't have to make a rule saying they can't, but I don't think we should make a statement that they can. That should be the purview of the Expanded game in my eyes. |
December 17, 2007 - 2:41am | Anyone can shoot a pistol or rifle at a reasonably high percentage, but not everyone can shoot a heavy weapon or place/defuse demolition charges. Repairing weapons probably only Military PSA as well. Exactly, that's what I was getting at in my original post based on my experiences with the CCW class & renewal I took (which is coming up again). The actual shooting test isn't difficult, and as scary as it may sound I'd bet money that a blind person could pass. For medic, anyone can inject basic medicine, stayfield, curing diseas, operations are probably medical PSA only. Anyone can drive, maybe equivalent of changing the oil, but more serious repairs require a tech. Similar to computers, anyone can do basic stuff, but not everyone can program. Hear, and hear. Referee discretion. I learned motorcycle mechanics by investing $200 in a clunker that didn't run and another $50 in a service manual. It took some time and trial runs, but yes it is a skill that gets developed as is evidenced that five years later, now it turns over but still won't run LOL Still, I've saved thousands over the years on my other bikes by not paying the $80/hour dealership shop labor rates. |
