 December 2, 2007 - 4:00am | Computers should be streamlined. Available in several sizes, with each type capable of containing variable amounts of programs/software depending on size. Sizes could be hand-held (like modern Palm Pilots etc), micro-portable (laptops), macro-portable (suitcase sized), desktop, and mainframe. Programs/software could be simply limited to functions without varying levels...say Analysis for calculations, Life Support for food/water/air regulation, etc rather than involving the complexity of different levels of programs as the ADE (Alpha Dawn Expanded) rules dictate. Input? |
 December 2, 2007 - 11:26pm | Computers haven't figured in much with that I've played in the last few weeks, so I don't have much experience on where the complexity comes in.... Withouth levels, what is the differences between a PDA (Chronocom/BodyComp) or a Mainframe? |
December 3, 2007 - 2:40am | The expanded game has programs and function points...the total function points determines the computer level. I was considering just doing away with the levels and function points.
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 December 3, 2007 - 2:44pm | I think Shack's just meaning to sorta pre-make computers of a few sizes instead of presenting all the rules for defining computers. That way we can have a few types and abstract the rest. Is that what you're meaning? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
December 3, 2007 - 8:00pm | I think Shack's just meaning to sorta pre-make computers of a few sizes instead of presenting all the rules for defining computers. That way we can have a few types and abstract the rest. Is that what you're meaning? That seems reasonable and "basic".... |
 December 4, 2007 - 11:11pm | Yeah, basing it on sizes is all I care for. Anything more and it's not basic. Even still, I need to know what the purpose of even size difference would be. Without skill levels, any kind of computer progression would be meaningless. |
December 5, 2007 - 1:39am | I think Shack's just meaning to sorta pre-make computers of a few sizes instead of presenting all the rules for defining computers. That way we can have a few types and abstract the rest. Is that what you're meaning? In a sense, with the premise that bigger computers are more "powerful". I'm going to search for my Traveller Starships supplement, I recall a really simple computer guideline mentioned in it that could suit the Basic Game well. Once I find it I'll "copy" it here to see what you guys think. |
December 5, 2007 - 3:35am | Okay I found my Traveller book...here's a converted sample of what might be feasible for Basic rules computers:
Each program (re: Analysis, Information Storage, etc) would be assigned a storage space number (probably say a value of 1 each unless it's an overly complicated program). Each program would have a defined function to flesh out the use of the computer. |
December 5, 2007 - 2:26pm | Sounds like a really simple progression. I'm on board. Now all we need is a list of programs? Or are you simply saying that a "program" will count as "1" unless the Referee states otherwise? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
December 5, 2007 - 4:49pm | Sounds like a really simple progression. I'm on board. Now all we need is a list of programs? Or are you simply saying that a "program" will count as "1" unless the Referee states otherwise? Right, I propose that each program allocates 1 space on a computer, unless it's a complicated program (like say a ship's drive program, in which case you need the higher capacity mainframe or maxiframe anyways). In other words, the ADE programs, if incorporated directly, would all be considered as 1 space each (with no levels). |
December 5, 2007 - 7:03pm | Three levels (1, 10, 13) to keep certain programs on certain sized computers? (sizes picked to the left to reflect "portable", desktop, mainframe..... Although maybe re-size the computers so that a Mainframe could run 2-3 mainframe programs that are too big to run on a desktop? I don't like the 'ol one program per computer thing.....) |
December 5, 2007 - 11:31pm | Again, we're discussing the Basic game. If you have to sacrifice some realism for playability in the Expanded game, how much more so for the Basic game. Keep it simple. |
December 12, 2007 - 8:47pm | Revised Computer proposal:
Computer Programs List
Spaceship Programs (expansion list)
Program descriptions would echo the ADE descriptions, just no levels involved. This way a home computer would have enough space for personal use, a mainframe would be a business load, and a maxi0frame would be a city or starship computer capable of holding all the programs needed to function (albeit not every single program in one single computer...so no "super" computers) |
December 12, 2007 - 11:13pm | To play devils advocate, why would anyone buy a computer other than a hand-held? 16 handhelds have the same computing power as a Maxiframe, can run any program, will be less than 1/10th the cost at 1/30th the weight.... |
December 12, 2007 - 11:34pm | Good point. How about a ruling that states that multiple coordinated programs can only be performed by a single computer...so that prevents the use of multiple handhelds for a ship or city. Bureaucracy (to coordinate the other programs)
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December 13, 2007 - 9:43am | this has my stamp of approval ( I know, you didn't ask. lol ) I would also like the ability to "expand" my handheld slightly, not up to the next level of course. |
December 16, 2007 - 9:58pm | Good
point. How about a ruling that states that multiple coordinated
programs can only be performed by a single computer...so that prevents
the use of multiple handhelds for a ship or city. That could work, although how about adjusting the price a bit to make the low end more expensive / high end a little cheaper, so that the price per space goes down with the increase in total size? Given advances in networking, should be doable to create a "grid" of smaller computers.... Google, eBay, "grids" of Intel / Linux boxes, I believe.... |
December 16, 2007 - 11:06pm | Economics is a touchy thing in roleplaying, especially with Star Frontiers. I managed to straddle the fine line of economics and simplicity in my Buying and Selling article that I think elegantly handles the situation without providing whole huge lists of quality versus lemon. I think it better to express economics in its own mechanic rather than hard coding it into item costs and qualities. I recommend looking my article over and making any adjustments to it you think necessary for appeasing your need for economic variances in product costs and quality. That is in issue #6 of the Frontiersman, near the back. |
December 17, 2007 - 2:43am | Any chance yopu could reprint that Corjay? Or PM it to me? My dial up takes forever to download a PDF file that large. Although after new year's I'll most likely spring the $15 for that B&W six issue compilation CCR is offering. |
December 17, 2007 - 2:03pm | Sure thing. Just click the link below for the min-PDF of just the article. Buying And Selling (136kb) By the way, where I wrote "PanGal" was actually supposed to be "Prenglar" (thus references to the heart of the Star Law and the UPF). Also, this article is compatible with the Dragon Magazine articles "Rare Wines and Ready Cash" and "Tote That Barge!". The haggling header in the article can be used in conjunction with the Haggling skill from Zebulon's Guide to Frontier Space. |
 January 6, 2008 - 8:12pm | Hey, a good limitation would be to adjust the space used by the level of the program. Now you can't run the higher level programs so you would be lacking the full power. And, put a max level program it can run. I think SF covers this in the form of function points. Just some thoughts that we covered for the player that likes to make new programs in the game. |
January 6, 2008 - 9:41pm | Well that's the catch. How far is too far? What you have proposed is no less difficult than the original rules. Generally, players that like to create new stuff and get into complexities aren't going to enjoy the basic version to begin with. If they do want the simplicity and still be able to do something like program new stuff, I suggest letting them do it without penalty. Often the best way to easy (basic) game mechanics is to ignore penalties and difficulties beyond the basic skill and situational modifiers. In other words, what's the point to the Basic game if it's not going to be basic? |
January 7, 2008 - 7:39am | Basically the current document has "Type" and "Drive Space". Refer to: Computers (a document page from the Basic Plus project). I don't think upgrades have been addressed. ?!? I purchase a Portable (sm) with a DS of 8 and fill up its space. I want to add another program that will use 2 DS without having to purchase another computer. The next level computer is the Portable (lg) of 12 DS. ...or is this "in the weeds"? :-/ |
January 9, 2008 - 3:56pm | I suppose the difference in cost between systems can be applied to upgrades. I'll go make the changes. |
