 October 22, 2007 - 1:30pm | Just wondering how many races we should have in a book? Pondering this, I went through my stack o'stuff... On page 82 of Dragon Magazine (December 1984 Issue) it says the following: Q: How many different native races exist in the Frontier? Now this is just saying how many races are native. The problem is, many of these are defined already - in various sources. Sathar are not native to the Frontier in Alpha Dawn canon. Actually, it is arguable that none of the four core races in the AD game are. There have been (and will continue to be) variant races presented in the pages of the StarFrontiersman... but that is a venue designed for optional components. A sourcebook like this is going to be a little different. So how many should there be? Are we bound to this seventeen statement? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
 October 22, 2007 - 1:43pm | I like the four core races with a few others sprinkled here and there. I don't like the idea of a star wars type universe where there is a race for every particle in the gas cloud. ...but I do think we should have as many as we can think of that are a legit type of race. This way GM's can pull from this project or ideas for ppl who write for the SFMAN project. -w00t .02 SEU pistolero in the face makes Jack a Dull Boy. |
 October 22, 2007 - 1:50pm | How about we suggest that there is a handful of races due to some incident. This could make it where there are very limited amounts of intelligent lifeforms. Like a in Halo where there are few different types of lifeforms or in the Revelation Space series. The Frontier has say a max of 25 races and from there every other race is considered "beyond the frontier". From there you can created a galaxy that isnt too flooded with life and is just right. Also we can use some of the theories from places like SETI and what many astronomers who have novels out theorize that life could be in the older stars (most located near the center or the outer limits of the center and rare cases allow for some life to spark in the fringes of known space. Confucious Says: Man with one chopstick go hungry. Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement. |
October 22, 2007 - 5:51pm | Just wondering how many races we should have in a book? Pondering this, I went through my stack o'stuff... Actually, all information that you could use to argue against that is non-canon. Stuff that arose on web pages long after the game was cancelled. There's no published information (by TSR) that I've seen that would suggest that the Frontier races are not native to the Frontier. Also, the fact that a race was "created" by geneticists does not mean the race is not native.On page 82 of Dragon Magazine (December 1984 Issue) it says the following: Q: How many different native races exist in the Frontier? Now this is just saying how many races are native. The problem is, many of these are defined already - in various sources. Sathar are not native to the Frontier in Alpha Dawn canon. Actually, it is arguable that none of the four core races in the AD game are. There have been (and will continue to be) variant races presented in the pages of the StarFrontiersman... but that is a venue designed for optional components. A sourcebook like this is going to be a little different. So how many should there be? Are we bound to this seventeen statement? |
October 23, 2007 - 8:35am | Actually, all information that you could use to argue against that is non-canon. Stuff that arose on web pages long after the game was cancelled. There's no published information (by TSR) that I've seen that would suggest that the Frontier races are not native to the Frontier. Also, the fact that a race was "created" by geneticists does not mean the race is not native. Is that really true? If I look through the presented timeline in zeb's guide, I find enigmatic statements like "270 pf. Yazirians enter the Frontier." instead of definitive statements like "Yazirians launch first space mission in orbit around XYZ." Stating that they first arrive in the Frontier sounds like they're from Beyond the Frontier -- or are my zebs guide sources incorrect? Here's the beginning of the Frontier Timeline from Zeb's Guide:10,500 pf. (Pre-Frontier) Last remnants of the mysterious Tetrach Societies die out. 950 pf. Heliopes left on starmist by Clikks after a Clikk military exploration vessel is forced to jettison unnecessary cargo. 800 pf. The evolution of the Mechanon race begins on Volturnus. 410 pf. First Vrusk/Dralasite contact. 350 pf. First Vrusk/Human contact 302 pf. Fromeltar system discovered by Dralasites. 300 pf. Vrusk, Dralasites, and Humans meet for the first time on the Frontier. 299 pf. Theseus system discovered by Humans. 270 pf. Yazirians enter the Frontier. 270-4 pf. The Frontier is founded. What this tells us: It's probable (though not specified) that Vrusk, Dralasite, and Human races started in the Frontier. However, it simply states that first contact occurred on those dates... is it possible that the two races met while mutually on exploration missions form beyond the frontier? Doubtful, but possible. I prefer to interpret it as saying that Vrusk, Dralasite and Humans are FROM the frontier. Yazirians on the other hand very specifically "enter the Frontier" -- sounds like they aren't native to me. It also sounds to me like 1) Vrusks were actively seeking other races and 2) Dralasites were actively seeking another place to call home. If Fromeltar was Discovered by the blobs, and the only other planet that is dralasite dominant is Inner Reach, I'd deduce they are native to Inner Reach (Dramune) Any other opinions on this? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
October 23, 2007 - 9:08am | I guess strictly, speaking, the Frontier being the area under the purview of the council of worlds being defined as "the Frontier", then yes, but otherwise, Yazirians have always occupied Hentz (is that the right world?), just outside the area of the council of worlds and inside the outer rim. But seeing as they were considered a core race by the creators of Star Frontiers and as being a part of the Frontier as defined by them, Zeb's classification of "entered the Frontier" is clearly not the idea of the creators. The "17 races" was stated by David Cook, the primary of the two creators. The 4 main races are clearly considered to be among the 17. We can't take Zeb's as defining the 17, particularly since there are clearly problems with the Zeb's timeline as pointed out by Rum Rogue (I think it was). The Zeb's timeline cannot be trusted for anything definitive in Star Frontiers history. I am, however, interested in working the Zeb's timeline into the canon as best as possible, wherever it does not directly contradict. |
October 23, 2007 - 9:09am | How about we go with the way we would consider someone or a group of people native. All of the Frontier races are native but only because thye are the posterity of the generations who cameto the Frontier. For example if you live in the US and was born here you could call yourself native because you arent from abywhere else "in that sense". SO lets just consider the four main races as native due to being born and raised on the Frontier. Confucious Says: Man with one chopstick go hungry. Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement. |
 October 23, 2007 - 10:06am | PC races or NPC races? There are many NPC races. There are FOUR PC Races. |
October 23, 2007 - 10:24am | Regarding NPC races, the Sathar are not a Frontier race. It is suggested in a Dragon Mag article that the Zuraqqor originate from a world near Zebulon. According to Gergmaster's definition, the S'sessu, a PC version of the Sathar, would be counted as Native, but do not fall within the realm of the council of worlds. |
October 23, 2007 - 11:13am | Oh I'm fine with calling the core FOUR races native. But if we do add Zeb's guide races to the mix, which it seems we're doing, they too should be considered native. The ul-mor are native. The kurubanda (or however it's spelled) are native. If we go through all the modules and dragon magazine articles ... I think nearly all of them can be called native by this definition. Only the Sathar would be from Beyond. In the pages of the StarFrontiersman, many races have been created. Of them:
3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
October 23, 2007 - 12:43pm | The Nagana is an Alien Legion race, so they're not official Star Frontiers. They're borrowed. |
October 23, 2007 - 1:43pm | um... no... I just made those up - including the name. Does that name already exist somewhere? What about their appearance? I know I sat down and totally made that up... I googled and could find the word "nagano" mentioned in relation to "alien legion" but no real information or images. Do you have links? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
October 23, 2007 - 1:53pm | Ok - well let me give this a shot: Humans Vrusk Yazirian Dralasite Zurraquor (mini module and counters) Notui (Face of the Enemy) Mhemne (War Machine) Ul-Mor (Volturnus) Eorna (Volturnus) Edestakai (Volturnus) Kurabanda (Volturnus) Lokuku (SF4 - but barely sentient...) Heliopes (SF3) Mechanons (I guess?) Sathar (or are they just invaders?) Looks like about 13, then add the Zebs races (if we must) and that is about 17, right? |
October 23, 2007 - 3:05pm | Mechanons are SF2. Sathar are just invaders. |
 October 28, 2007 - 6:30pm | Forgot the chukkas from SFKH:1, Imp Lord :D. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
November 9, 2007 - 10:07pm | The Nagana is an Alien Legion race, so they're not official Star Frontiers. They're borrowed. Can you please explain this? I can't find this race anywhere, and am quite certain I made it up - and also I never heard of Alien Legion. Please let me know what you're referring to?3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
November 10, 2007 - 9:48am | Then you either channeled someone, or you recreated a memory without realizing it, or you came up with it on your own and it just happened to be the same. I see only 3 mentionable differences: Yours doesn't have a scaly underbelly, yours has a small fin at the end of the tail (as opposed to further up the tail), and yours has spaces between the femur and ulna of the arms. But if you came up with it independently, then it can be written off as coincidence and added to the list of races. |
November 10, 2007 - 9:58am | This depicts a fin closer to the tip of the tail, and the comics do not depict a scaly underbelly, though this one has hair: http://www.atakra.com/pictures/ebaycomics/magazines/alien_legion_v2_01.jpg The Alien Legion comic masthead marker:  |
November 12, 2007 - 11:42am | That's freakish. I DID come up with that from my own imagination... I've never even heard of this genre -- it's a comic series? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
November 13, 2007 - 12:38am | That's freakish. I DID come up with that from my own imagination... I've never even heard of this genre -- it's a comic series? Yes, and RPG. |
 October 10, 2012 - 2:10am | Regarding the Nagana, it's really not so freakish. Reptile people are a pretty basic science fiction trope, and that includes "snake men". Look at the Ophidians and Yuan Ti in D&D, and the Naga in The Arcanum. In fact, "naga" is a word that means "serpent". "Nagamen" are common in both science fiction and fantasy, so I wouldn't say that they're borrowed from any one thing. Besides, the Nagana are more original than most - they are amphibious eel-men, not snakes per se. Personally, I like them. ~~~~~~~~~~~ OK, I like Imperial Lord's list. I wouldn't count the Lokkuku, though. If he said there were 17 in December of 1984, does that include the ones from Zebulon's Guide, which is copyright 1985? I'm guessing not. Likewise, we should not include the Clikks, who live outside the Frontier, and might even be extinct anyway. Let's see if we can pin down which 17 he was referring to... Human Vrusk Dralasite Yazirian Zuraqqor Eorna Ul-Mor Edestekai Kurabanda Mechanon Heliope Mhemne Notui S'sessu Saurian Zethra If we add the Sathar, that makes 17. Throw in the Osakar, Ifshnit & Humma for a bonus, and you get 20. Any species from the Star Frontiersman are just icing on the cake. |
 May 9, 2013 - 11:50pm | I'd throw out the Mechanons and add the Gorilians. Gorilians are mentioned in the story boards of the AD books. I interpret them as a race in the story. Mechanons are machines, "They don't get happy, they don't get sad, they just run programs." -iggy |
 May 10, 2013 - 10:35am | One way of explaining the gorlians is that shadowshack made them one of his yazirian clans in the yazirian clan article. Thus a gorlian thug was just a yazirian. I'M loth to toss out the mechanons due to how much canon material is devoted to them- unless you ran an adventure where the Silver Death Cult released a virus that infects mechanons and kills them. Then you've dealt with them in story. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
