 October 17, 2007 - 11:17am | Refer to: Clarion-class Strike Cruiser. I built the ship using the system in my house rules. ABM=Anti-Beam Missiles MS=Mag Shielding HLC=Heavy Laser Cannon, not to be confused with the weapon of the same name in Shadow's house rules. HLB=Heavy Laser Battery, as above(please, no lawsuits, I am poor!). I used Hull Points instead of Structural Points to make it more playable for everyone. For anyone reading my house rules, Dice of Hull Damage=Dice of SP damage/20. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 October 17, 2007 - 12:52pm | Did you post your house rules somewhere....like the House Rules Wiki I'm interested in viewing them.  |
October 17, 2007 - 6:00pm | Yes, he has posted them in the wiki. Hey Will, if you put your house rules front page link in your signature, it can help people know about your house rules. I view HP (spaceships) as 10 times SP, and SP (vehicles) as 10 times STA (Character), and thus HP is 100 times STA. It makes it easy to comprehend damage. |
October 18, 2007 - 11:38am | How do you do that, Corjay? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
October 18, 2007 - 11:44am | How do you do that, Corjay? Will, go to this link http://starfrontiers.us/user/78/edit/account and scroll down to Comment Signature |
October 18, 2007 - 7:14pm | Will. You'll need to use the linking button on the RTF editor to add the link to a phrase. |
October 19, 2007 - 11:55am | My house rules are now linked to my new sig. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
October 19, 2007 - 11:59am | Yes, he has posted them in the wiki. Hey Will, if you put your house rules front page link in your signature, it can help people know about your house rules. I view HP (spaceships) as 10 times SP, and SP (vehicles) as 10 times STA (Character), and thus HP is 100 times STA. It makes it easy to comprehend damage. So an assault scout would have a 1,500 STA? A little high, don't you think? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
October 19, 2007 - 12:39pm | Yes, he has posted them in the wiki. Hey Will, if you put your house rules front page link in your signature, it can help people know about your house rules. I view HP (spaceships) as 10 times SP, and SP (vehicles) as 10 times STA (Character), and thus HP is 100 times STA. It makes it easy to comprehend damage. So an assault scout would have a 1,500 STA? A little high, don't you think? what is STA? |
October 19, 2007 - 3:12pm | My house rules are now linked to my new sig. I know I'm annoying like this, but how are people supposed to know that your sig is your house rules? |
October 19, 2007 - 3:33pm | Yes, he has posted them in the wiki. Hey Will, if you put your house rules front page link in your signature, it can help people know about your house rules. I view HP (spaceships) as 10 times SP, and SP (vehicles) as 10 times STA (Character), and thus HP is 100 times STA. It makes it easy to comprehend damage. So an assault scout would have a 1,500 STA? A little high, don't you think? w00t. I thought we were all playing the same game here. STA=Stamina. |
October 19, 2007 - 3:47pm | I have to correct myself about STA and SP. SP is equal to STA. Vehicles themselves have 10 times the number of a character's STA, so 45 STA is as effective to a character in character battle as 450 SP is to a vehicle in vehicle battle. A direct
hit from a grenade could do substantial damage to a vehicle with 450 SP,
which is one tenth of a spaceship's 45 HP. So the spaceship's HP is still 100 times that of a character's STA. Of course, size has a bearing on the vehicle's SP and the spaceship's HP, but not on the character's STA. I'm just making a point about the scale being gradient between 1 to over 10,000 from characters to spaceships. |
October 19, 2007 - 4:27pm | w00t. I thought we were all playing the same game here. STA=Stamina. errr...someon I thought it was in reference to Knight Hawks.  |
October 20, 2007 - 8:45am | I have to correct myself about STA and SP. SP is equal to STA. Vehicles themselves have 10 times the number of a character's STA, so 45 STA is as effective to a character in character battle as 450 SP is to a vehicle in vehicle battle. A direct hit from a grenade could do substantial damage to a vehicle with 450 SP, which is one tenth of a spaceship's 45 HP. So the spaceship's HP is still 100 times that of a character's STA. Of course, size has a bearing on the vehicle's SP and the spaceship's HP, but not on the character's STA. I'm just making a point about the scale being gradient between 1 to over 10,000 from characters to spaceships. But, KH spacecraft are not that big, and RL spacecraft are not that tough...a 100-ton shuttle was destroyed when a piece of foam knocked off a couple of its heat tiles. It won't be that different for KH starships, being more large aircraft than anything else; even with armor, they're not ever going to be bricks. A direct hit with a grenade rifle(assuming low altitude/grounded, no defenses and such), or with a laser rifle on setting 20 should be able to do some damage to a smaller starship like a fighter or an assault scout, just as someone with an assault can—under the right circumstances—put holes in an Apache, a Harrier, an A-10 or even a jet fighter which gets too low to the ground. Least, that's my opinion. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
October 20, 2007 - 12:17pm | I have to correct myself about STA and SP. SP is equal to STA. Vehicles themselves have 10 times the number of a character's STA, so 45 STA is as effective to a character in character battle as 450 SP is to a vehicle in vehicle battle. A direct hit from a grenade could do substantial damage to a vehicle with 450 SP, which is one tenth of a spaceship's 45 HP. So the spaceship's HP is still 100 times that of a character's STA. Of course, size has a bearing on the vehicle's SP and the spaceship's HP, but not on the character's STA. I'm just making a point about the scale being gradient between 1 to over 10,000 from characters to spaceships. But, KH spacecraft are not that big, and RL spacecraft are not that tough...a 100-ton shuttle was destroyed when a piece of foam knocked off a couple of its heat tiles. It won't be that different for KH starships, being more large aircraft than anything else; even with armor, they're not ever going to be bricks. A direct hit with a grenade rifle(assuming low altitude/grounded, no defenses and such), or with a laser rifle on setting 20 should be able to do some damage to a smaller starship like a fighter or an assault scout, just as someone with an assault can—under the right circumstances—put holes in an Apache, a Harrier, an A-10 or even a jet fighter which gets too low to the ground. Least, that's my opinion. I agree. Is there a resolution mechanic that can resolve this? |
October 20, 2007 - 1:20pm | I have to correct myself about STA and SP. SP is equal to STA. Vehicles themselves have 10 times the number of a character's STA, so 45 STA is as effective to a character in character battle as 450 SP is to a vehicle in vehicle battle. A direct hit from a grenade could do substantial damage to a vehicle with 450 SP, which is one tenth of a spaceship's 45 HP. So the spaceship's HP is still 100 times that of a character's STA. Of course, size has a bearing on the vehicle's SP and the spaceship's HP, but not on the character's STA. I'm just making a point about the scale being gradient between 1 to over 10,000 from characters to spaceships. But, KH spacecraft are not that big, and RL spacecraft are not that tough...a 100-ton shuttle was destroyed when a piece of foam knocked off a couple of its heat tiles. It won't be that different for KH starships, being more large aircraft than anything else; even with armor, they're not ever going to be bricks. A direct hit with a grenade rifle(assuming low altitude/grounded, no defenses and such), or with a laser rifle on setting 20 should be able to do some damage to a smaller starship like a fighter or an assault scout, just as someone with an assault can—under the right circumstances—put holes in an Apache, a Harrier, an A-10 or even a jet fighter which gets too low to the ground. Least, that's my opinion. How much heat friction wind can your body withstand? 110 degrees in 60-70 mph winds? Beyond that you're a roast duck. Between the temperature and speed differences, that's 4 extra zeroes. Now how many knife stabs can you withstand compared to a KH size 4 ship? Or how many grenades? Or how many bullet wounds? Also remember that damage is abstracted by the figures, representing more than just how much damage it can take, but also how much it can resist or avoid. A ship can certainly take hundreds of times more punishment than any human. |
October 21, 2007 - 8:13am | So you say protective tiles were knocked off protecting the shuttle from 3,200 degrees of heat. So what destroyed the shuttle? Knocking off the tile, or 3,200 degrees of heat friction in 10,000 mph winds? (I'm being conservative with the temperature and wind speed.) Let me break this down for those who sidetrack their way out of discussions. If it wasn't for that bit of foam knocking off all those heat tiles, we would still have our flagship space shuttle, and the politicos would have one less excuse for shutting NASA down. In other words, the foam destroyed the Space Shuttle. How much heat friction wind can your body withstand? 110 degrees in 60-70 mph winds? Beyond that you're a roast duck. Between the temperature and speed differences, that's 4 extra zeroes. Now how many knife stabs can you withstand compared to a KH size 4 ship? Or how many grenades? Or how many bullet wounds? Irrelevant to the discussion at hand, the same as asking me how much kinetic energy my body can withstand as compared to the thin titanium/aluminum skin of a modern aircraft(assuming it flies down that low), instead of foccussing on the fact that a round of 7.62 mm NATO hardball can puncture both my skin and an airplane's with the same ease. A ship can certainly take hundreds of times more punishment than any human. A spaceship is another form of aircraft, not the battleship Yamato with rocket engines, Corjay. You set off a frag grenade next to a grounded assault scout, and the resulting fragments will puncture the skin and prevent that section of the ship from being pressurized...enough fragments might even get in and wreck vital systems, or just sever wiring, either of which will do harm to the craft...if you find a way to limpet the grenade to the ship's skin, you will do more damage; you stick it on or in one of the engines, the engine's out of comission and spewing radiation all over the place. Why? An assault scout can only be armored so much, before its engines are no longer able to lift it. Even if the spacecraft never comes closer to a planet than high orbit, you still can only armor it so much before the ability of its engines to move it through space and its attitude control thrusters have equal difficulty in maneuvering the ship...there's no weight in space, but mass still remains. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
October 21, 2007 - 3:18pm | So you say protective tiles were knocked off
protecting the shuttle from 3,200 degrees of heat. So what destroyed
the shuttle? Knocking off the tile, or 3,200 degrees of heat friction
in 10,000 mph winds? (I'm being conservative with the temperature and
wind speed.) Let me break this down for those who sidetrack their way out of discussions. If it wasn't for that bit of foam knocking off all those heat tiles, we would still have our flagship space shuttle, and the politicos would have one less excuse for shutting NASA down. In other words, the foam destroyed the Space Shuttle. How
much heat friction wind can your body withstand? 110 degrees in 60-70
mph winds? Beyond that you're a roast duck. Between the temperature and
speed differences, that's 4 extra zeroes. Irrelevant to the
discussion at hand, the same as asking me how much kinetic energy my
body can withstand as compared to the thin titanium/aluminum skin of a
modern aircraft(assuming it flies down that low), instead of foccussing
on the fact that a round of 7.62 mm NATO hardball can puncture both my
skin and an airplane's with the same ease.Now how many knife stabs can you withstand compared to a KH size 4 ship? Or how many grenades? Or how many bullet wounds? A ship can certainly take hundreds of times more punishment than any human. A spaceship is another form of aircraft, not the battleship Yamato with rocket engines, Corjay. You set off a frag grenade next to a grounded assault scout, and the resulting fragments will puncture the skin and prevent that section of the ship from being pressurized...enough fragments might even get in and wreck vital systems, or just sever wiring, either of which will do harm to the craft...if you find a way to limpet the grenade to the ship's skin, you will do more damage; you stick it on or in one of the engines, the engine's out of comission and spewing radiation all over the place. Why? An assault scout can only be armored so much, before its engines are no longer able to lift it. Even if the
spacecraft never comes closer to a planet than high orbit, you still
can only armor it so much before the ability of its engines to move it
through space and its attitude control thrusters have equal difficulty
in maneuvering the ship...there's no weight in space, but mass still
remains. They overcame this issue by including Atomic engines. The fact that they include atomic engines shows how much power is being generated.By the way, I didn't appreciate the "those who sidetrack their way out of discussions" comment. This was inappropriate to the nature of the discussion. I'm addressing the issues directly with reasoning. Not one instance of sidetracking. I'd appreciate it if you would keep a civil discussion civil. I'm sorry, but I think we're at an empass on this one. I can tell by language used that both of us are entrenched on the issue. So I'm just going to tone things back down and let this one go if you will, and just agree to disagree. |
October 21, 2007 - 4:05pm | @Corjay, I think that would best, yes. w00t, I don't know if there is a good resolution mechanic, other than using the Advanced Game's Damage Table for personal weapons versus low-flying/grounded spacecraft, with a suitable modifier. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 October 25, 2007 - 3:08pm | How much heat friction wind can your body withstand? 110 degrees in 60-70 mph winds? More than that, I travel 60-70mph on my motorcyles out here in the summer heat where it's 110+ for 4-8 weeks LOL Still, I'd like to think that there's some treatment to ship hulls that is a far cry more efficient than our modern day 1970s technology shuttle heat tiles. Like that stuff that was applied to the capsule bottoms in the 1960s... |
October 26, 2007 - 9:06am | In my SF campaign, hulls are made of a mono-molecular carbon-fiber material which is more resistant to heat and slightly more durable than steel "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 December 15, 2007 - 11:28am | Hey, the tile got a critical hit. And just like erosion the "wind" and "heat" took its toll on the cohesion of the tiles and adhesive and the "wind" turbulence of which caused a vacuum that sucked the tile off not blew it off. And the hull of the shuttle is made to withstand going in and out of atmospheres not take combat damage. A star ship can emphasize the hull to take combat damage because it doesn't have to go into the atmosphere. This is over kill to the extreme on the difference between the two. Any more depth to understand what happened you need to take a physics class. |
November 28, 2008 - 5:51pm | KE=½mv^2. That's what happened to the shuttle. One could always armor the hull with ice to fend off lasers, ala the Longknife novels. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
