Minotaur, Theseus

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 6, 2013 - 5:59pm
Alpha Dawn wrote:

Colonizers: human; Heavy population, Industrial economy, Gravity 1.2, Moons: none; Day 15 hours; Star: Yellow-Orange.


Knight Hawks wrote:

Class 2 Star ship construction center of 3 type VI space stations hulls

Militia: 4 assault scouts, 1 frigate, 1 destroyer


Zebs guide wrote:

Colonizers: human; Heavy population, Inustry and business economy, gravity: 1.2, Day 15 hours, Fortified space station, Moons: none.

Footnote: Minotaur is the headquarters for Star Play Enterpirses (StarEnt also maintains offices on all rest and relaxation space stations). their base of operations is the planet's capitol city, Maze, the largest vacation spot on the Frontier. Ninland (named for its founder, Siot Nin) is an amusement park beyond belief.

Subsidaries of Star Play: Price Publishing, Stellar Entertainment Network


Dragon Magazine 103 "Coming of the Saurians" wrote:
The main body of the saurian ships entered Theseus System and were boarded by alert UPF vessels....19 saurian starships (with over 500,000 aboard in stasis) reamain in solar orbit at Theseus.... plans are still underway to ship them to Lossend.


Polyhedron #13 "Raid on Theseus" wrote:

A few Spacefleet vessels cut off from the main fleet have fled to Theseus. White Light system is blockaded so the star route from Theseus to the rest of the Frontier is effectively cut.

Now these vessels, repaired and rearmed, have joined the militia vessels of Minotaur and will have to defend the system against sathar attacks... for there is no where else to run.

Militia ship names:
4 assault scouts: Gnat, mosquito, dragonfly, wasp
1 frigate: Heroic
1 destroyer: Republic

Space Station Name: Minotaur Station
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 6, 2013 - 6:06pm
Some interesting patterns here:

1. Minotaur has a robust militia compared to others

2. it has been cut of during war with the sathar (Clarion was blockaded)

3. It has a type 2 SCC which is a 3 type VI space station hull linked at the hub and is a fortified station

4. the flagship of the militia is named "Republic"

I think we can envision a planet that started as a Greek style Republic. Its past is glorious (at least that is how it was written) that is mostly true. Approaching the SW2 it has become a more decadent society centered on pleasure and recreation. the forms of the institutions of its founding are still in place but the fabric of this society lacks much of the metal from its early days.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 6, 2013 - 6:08pm
The saurians are not canon for every one's campaign but we could make some hay of the fact that a planet like Minotaur could not find space for 500,000 people? Perhaps it was just too inconvienent for them to bother thus they pushed for their relocation to Lossend.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 6, 2013 - 6:49pm
Minotaur as a game setting:

Things with a major impact or imfluence on the local setting.

Star Play and Ninland, Thesus is the vacation capitol of the Frontier. Its amusement parks are hands down off the hook and unrivaled (unless the rivals are owned by Star Play) Resorts and spas (Roman style baths?) are as common as hairdressers

Sports are a major preoccupation with this colony, marathons, olympiads, running of the bulls (or is that running of the kriks), races, boxing, wrestling, team sports, etc. Betting- how could it not be a major industry. Robot fights?

Major militia- potentially flexes its might

Pretext of a republican government greatly corrupted by the presence of a mega corp.

Crime? Law & Order? Crime is almost inevitable but does Star Play take a hand in policing? does star play try to eliminate illegal gaming & gamboling parlors? Little doubt that Star Law has a major station here.

If Saurian exist in setting this is a major issue and perhaps there is some political fallout over not allowing the saurians to land their people.

Capitol city named Maze? We almost have to have a 'maze' of streets

Industry and business? heavy population: ecological impact?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
September 7, 2013 - 4:22am
Or maybe the Saurians took one look at the place and decided they didn't want any part of it and are looking for something more to their liking?
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 8, 2013 - 4:30am
TerlObar wrote:
Or maybe the Saurians took one look at the place and decided they didn't want any part of it and are looking for something more to their liking?


One way or the other they are sitting ducks if the sathar show up. The vast majority of their recued population could be wiped out in space. I would think they would want to get most of that population dirtside soonest just for safety.

Its concievable that the UPF and the soverign planets involved could raise caution flags about various potential problems. Minotaur with its heavy population and Industiral/business economy geared toward pleasure might not be so welcoming while Lossend with its founding as a low populatin ag colony but recent developments as the head quarters to Tachton Instruments might be more amenable to the sudden influx of population to potentially fuel its changing economy in an industrial direction.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 8, 2013 - 1:28pm
So... I need to do a bit of a setting brief and besides Maze, the capitol city and Ninland the biggest (clearly Disney style) amusement park. I'm going to need some place and location names. It seems to me that Greek names from mythology might be worth mining for this. For example New Olympus could be a major sports complex. I would note though that Theseus and the minotaur were personages in Greek mythology so perhaps we might go with similar names ascribed to places.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Karxan's picture
Karxan
September 8, 2013 - 2:09pm
I agree that sticking with a greek theme would make sense. There are lots of names and themes to take from. A city named Maze on a planet named Minotaur makes sense and creating a huge city that is a maze reminds me of a city like Seattle or LA. Most cities here I have noticed start out trying to create a semblance of order but as the city grows to fast and also runs into geographical obstructions the plan changes, sometimes not for the best. The city I grew up in basically made sens as it was a grid, but then the population boomed and the expansion was chaotic. So maybe Maze has a core area that is very organized, but to get there from anywhere else is subject to the "Maze". As a heavily populated city it will most likely have grown fast and not so organized. 

Another concept for Maze could be it was literally designed as a maze in keeping with the theme of the minotaur and also as a play place. I believe there are a few cities that were created in the middle east along those line, I am going to see if I can find them.

Karxan's picture
Karxan
September 8, 2013 - 2:11pm
As for the saurians, if I were them I would not want to stay on a planet that was so heavily populated. They might get put into some type of lower caste status and live in slums. So their race moving to Lossend makes more sense. Besides, who would want to live with the stinking humans anyway?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 8, 2013 - 3:29pm
Minotaur Almanac:

New Olympus: major sports complex designed to host interstellar events, eclipses previous sports centers but since interstellar events are not that common the complex gets constant use for local events, its one of the jewels in Star Play's crown.

the hoverdrome: a major sports track for hvoercycle racing

Xanadu- I was tempted to call this the Venus Dome but honestly I like the sound of Xanadu for the red light district, Within this district would be places called The Half Shell (as in Venus on a Half Shell), The Abyssinian Maid, Sparta, Alf's Waters and etc.

Pegasus Field: star port

Bellerophon Base: planet side headquarters and base for the militia, Bellerophon was the "greatest of heros and slayer of monsters" so this if perhaps a good name indeed and apt since they are the planet's last line of defense against sathar invasion.

Mercury Avenue is a literal street name but also a general name for the business district in Maze.

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

iggy's picture
iggy
October 29, 2013 - 5:24am
SFMan Theseus System Briefs in issues 11 and 16.

Creatures, plants, and trade goods in issues 16, 17, 20, and 21.

I think I like the system in issue 11, but I need to understand the science behind the 30 degree, south pole tidally locked to a gas giant view of Minotaur.

@TerlObar, have you looked at Minotaur in issue 11?
-iggy

jedion357's picture
jedion357
October 29, 2013 - 3:52am
I'll need some time to review the SFman content.

Tidally locked simply means that the orbiting body does not rotate- one face is always facing the larger source of gravity in its close vicinity. This means that the "day" is not measured by the body's rotation and that it would probably have a more complicated day based on the orbit and rotation of the larger body- Terl Obar might be the person to explain/describe that. Fortunately the setting has GST and they would likely just use that and ignore issues like day & night / Light & Dark.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
November 4, 2013 - 5:00pm
iggy wrote:
@TerlObar, have you looked at Minotaur in issue 11?

I did at some point since I was the editor of the SFMan for that issue.  I'll have to take a look at it again but IIRC one of the write-ups was completely unphysical (especially in regards to the tidal locking) but I wasn't going to make a big issue of it and exclude it from the magazine.  I'll look over it again.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

iggy's picture
iggy
November 10, 2013 - 7:33pm
@TerlObar, Here is what Shadow Shack wrote in his Minotaur write-up in SFman 11.
Quote:
Minotaur is a moon orbiting the gas giant Ares which occupies the 4th orbit out of 11 planets in the Theseus system. Its axis is tilted at 38 degrees with the southern pole tidally locked toward Ares. As such the planet is divided into three major sections: the desert wasteland at the southern polar region, the hospitable equatorial region, and the frozen northern region. The surface is comprised of roughly 53% water, with most of it in the form of ice at the northern polar area.


I imagine this to mean that he has Minotaur's south pole locked toward Ares but not orthogonal to Ares.  Rather the southern latitude marked by 52 degrees south always points towards Ares as Minotaur spins.

The day is 15 hours 23 minutes which I interpret to be the time to make one revolution on it's axis, not the time to orbit Ares.  Depending on the orbital distance from Aris nad inclination, Minotaur may also go through the shadow of Ares.

@Shadow Shack, did I interpret the tilt and day correct?  Does Minotaur ever get shadowed by Ares?

@TerlObar, is this the tidal locking you were concerned with?  How would it physically work out cosest to the desire effect?
-iggy

jedion357's picture
jedion357
November 11, 2013 - 2:03am
Doesn't tidal lock mean that it doesn't spin? And isn't it the spin that makes the axis (north and south pole) relevant?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

iggy's picture
iggy
November 11, 2013 - 8:29am
@jedion, Yes, with relation to the orbit.  Tidally locked means that the spin matches the orbit so only one face is toward the primary.  Here we have some competing information.  To be tidally locked with the south pole facing Ares is not actually accounting for the spin matching the orbit.  To have the south pole always facing Ares would work with Minotaur just rolling around Ares tethered at the south pole.  We also have a stated spin of 15 hours which if it was also the orbital period would put Minotaur very close to Ares.  Then the 38 degree tilt of Minotaur competes with the south pole faceing Ares so I am trying to determine how Shadow Shack invisions this system.
-iggy

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
November 11, 2013 - 3:14pm
Yes, I reread it right after I posted.  Some thoughts:

1) Tidally locked is as iggy described, by definition, one rotation for every orbit around the primary.  The moon is tidally locked to the earth, it does spin, but only once every month which is why we always see the same side of the moon.

2)  15 hour day.  I'm not sure this is possible with it being tidally locked.  That would imply a 15 hour orbit and it would have to be really, really close to achieve that.  And I believe that being that close in means that it would be inside the Roche limit of the planet and get torn apart.  Io, the moon of Jupiter, has a 42.5 hour orbit and it is just outside Jupiter's Roche limit.  So I don't think a 15 hour orbit would be possible, the planet would get torn apart by tidal forces.  Although I'd have to do the math to be sure.

3) If Minotaur is a moon of a gas giant, there is no physcially possible orbit where it is not sometimes passing through the shadow of the gas giant.  And there is no way to keep one pole pointed toward the star at all times.  I remember having this discussion with Shadow Shack when he was doing the writup and I think I've posted about it here on the forums somewhere.  IIRC he originally had Minotaur a planet by itself with a pole pointed at the star and then moved it to be a moon afterward but I could be remembering incorrectly.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

iggy's picture
iggy
November 12, 2013 - 1:00am
I found the old Minotaur thread discussion with Shadow Shack:
Refer to: Planet maps

I remember reading it long ago now that I reread it.  I just did a realy cool thing with Celestia and 3D models a few weeks back and wanted to use a fan developed system to showcase the stuff with.  My Celestia Frontier work has aimed for scientifically based systems and I need a world map to wrap around the planet.  I latched on Minotaur as a possibility hence all of the checking on the system.

After having reread the above cited thread I see that the 38 degree tilt would still have the north pole always pointed at the same location in distant space and Minotaur would have its hemispheres alternate between which was closer to Ares as it obited.  This would be like the Earth and its tilt causing the seasons.  However we can be pretty sure that the orbit of Minotaur around Ares is going to be much faster that the Earth around the Sun so the heating and cooling cycles of each hemisphere caused by the 38 degree tilt will be at a faster frequency and thus more blended into each other in time.  True season effects will still be more dominantly controled by the distance to the star in relation to the 38 degree tilt.  To always have the south pole face Ares breaks the gyroscopic effect of Minotaur's 15 hour spin.  The pole would always be changing it pointing in space.

The goal of the system was to make one pole cold and one pole hot with the equater just right.  I'll have to ponder on this more.  I'll also have to ponder on how this works in with Minotaur being a resort world as well.
-iggy

JCab747's picture
JCab747
February 11, 2017 - 9:35am
iggy wrote:
I found the old Minotaur thread discussion with Shadow Shack:
Refer to: Planet maps

I remember reading it long ago now that I reread it.  I just did a realy cool thing with Celestia and 3D models a few weeks back and wanted to use a fan developed system to showcase the stuff with.  My Celestia Frontier work has aimed for scientifically based systems and I need a world map to wrap around the planet.  I latched on Minotaur as a possibility hence all of the checking on the system.

After having reread the above cited thread I see that the 38 degree tilt would still have the north pole always pointed at the same location in distant space and Minotaur would have its hemispheres alternate between which was closer to Ares as it obited.  This would be like the Earth and its tilt causing the seasons.  However we can be pretty sure that the orbit of Minotaur around Ares is going to be much faster that the Earth around the Sun so the heating and cooling cycles of each hemisphere caused by the 38 degree tilt will be at a faster frequency and thus more blended into each other in time.  True season effects will still be more dominantly controled by the distance to the star in relation to the 38 degree tilt.  To always have the south pole face Ares breaks the gyroscopic effect of Minotaur's 15 hour spin.  The pole would always be changing it pointing in space.

The goal of the system was to make one pole cold and one pole hot with the equater just right.  I'll have to ponder on this more.  I'll also have to ponder on how this works in with Minotaur being a resort world as well.

I'll need to look at these.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
February 11, 2017 - 9:40am
I'm going to repeat the following observation here:

There is a line in the "Warriors of the White Light" module that says:

"Humans were the primary settlers on Clarion... As they expanded from the direction of Theseus..."

That means that Theseus/Minotaur was the main gateway for the Humans into the Frontier whether they come from near the center of a great spiral galaxy or from Earth. So, Minotaur would potentially have the highest Human population simply because it's where people congregated first before heading out elsewhere.

A lot depends on the referee's concept of how many waves of colonists arrived into the Frontier and how they arrived. Did they all come at once or was there a period of extended contact from the home world before the flow of settlers mysteriously ended?
Joe Cabadas