Planet maps

umungus's picture
umungus
June 18, 2008 - 1:33pm

I have been thinking about the Star Frontiers setting. One of the things that is missing are maps of the planets. It would be nice to see what they look like.
Also when you make up a new planet, have some sort of standard for a map. Then you could share it with others and place your star system, etc.
Anyone have any ideas on this.

At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy......

Comments:

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
June 18, 2008 - 2:12pm
I've thought a bit about it as I have several systems outside the Frontier designed. I never did settle on a system I really liked. For the most part I just use the hex grid like in SF0 to draw the map of the relevant region of the planet on although I don't limit one type of terrain to a hex. I have also just done free hand mercador projections of the entire planet.

In the back of the GURPS Space book there is a triangular map projection for use in drawing the entire planet that basically breaks the sphere up into 20 different triangles and lays them out (Think a d20 unrolled) Inside each triangle is a hex grid that connect to adjacent triangles. It's called an "equal-area icosahedral" projection and is actually a very good way to represent the globe without getting too distorted. Of course you could always go to larger numbers of triangles to get less and less distortion. I always thought this would be a good way to do it.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Gullwind's picture
Gullwind
June 18, 2008 - 3:47pm
Several of the Star Frontiersmans have articles with planet maps. I'd like to find out how they're done. I'm occasionally working on a System Brief for Dramune, and I'd like to do some for Inner and Outer Reach.
"Rome didn't build an empire by having meetings. They did it by killing those who stood in their way."

umungus's picture
umungus
June 18, 2008 - 4:18pm
Terl,
That is the standard that Traveller started using. The unfolded 20 sided icosahedral map. Then they had a standard sector map to locate the star system. Maybe a good standard?

Gullwind,
I agree. I like the way those planet maps look too. Maybe we could combine the color map with the icosahedral map?
Does anyone know how they were done?

At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy......


TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
June 18, 2008 - 4:35pm
You are right, they are in Traveller as well.  I knew I had seen them somewhere else on my bookshelf Smile.  I'm not sure how the planet maps in the StarFrontiersman were made.  We probably need to ask w00t or CCR.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Rum Rogue's picture
Rum Rogue
June 18, 2008 - 5:47pm
TerlObar wrote:
I'm not sure how the planet maps in the StarFrontiersman were made. We probably need to ask w00t or CCR.


I *think* they used the Fractal World Generator from Dire Press.

Its on the LINKS page.  Or try this: http://direpress.bin.sh/tools/


Time flies when your having rum.

Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time.

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
June 18, 2008 - 6:01pm
That definitely looks like it. But which projection did they use?
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Rum Rogue's picture
Rum Rogue
June 18, 2008 - 7:20pm
TerlObar wrote:
That definitely looks like it. But which projection did they use?

I would guess Mercator or Square.  I am leaning more towards Mercator.
Hopefully one of them will let us know... soon. Smile
Time flies when your having rum.

Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time.

Sam's picture
Sam
June 19, 2008 - 7:43am
Mission to Alcazzar has a planet map that is pretty neat, if not very accurate. That is a way to go if you are not trying to be overly precise. I always favored the GURPS Space maps and drew up a few myself for Star Frontiers. Cassadine system and such.

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
June 19, 2008 - 8:06am
It is the issue of a really cool, scientific-geographic map versus a referee friendly, but rather ugly, hex-map (like Alcazzar and Volturnus).  Of course, who is to say you can't have both.  You could hand out the cool looking, but kind-of hard to figure out maps to the players, and keep a ref hexed map for yourself with all of the key goodies and encounter areas on it.

Having said that, I would welcome any kind of cartography that people want to do on the Federation worlds.  If someone wants to do this, I would like to request doing the maps of the sparsely populated Outpost worlds FIRST, because that is where most of my adventures take place.

But that's just me being greedy...  Innocent  If you want to map Gran Quivera first, be my guest...

Speaking of the Frontiersman - these would be GREAT plug-ins as bonuses to our "subscribers".  Every issue has a Frontier planet map in it.  There has been some of this already, but I have noticed that they have not had too much in the way of man-made facilites such as highways and cities.  Make sure to include that stuff if you want to go about this.

umungus's picture
umungus
June 19, 2008 - 10:20am
I downloaded the demo fro Fractal Terrain by Pro Fantasy. It is very cool. It is very flexible. you can change the map up to any projection you want there are 20 listed. Flick a switch and you can make a rainfall, climate, altitude or gaia map.

chesk it out:

http://www.profantasy.com/products/ft.asp

At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy......


Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
June 19, 2008 - 11:38am
Does it make gaming hex maps?

umungus's picture
umungus
June 19, 2008 - 12:30pm
not sure, I am still playing with it.

At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy......


Will's picture
Will
June 19, 2008 - 2:29pm
Imperial Lord wrote:
It is the issue of a really cool, scientific-geographic map versus a referee friendly, but rather ugly, hex-map (like Alcazzar and Volturnus).  Of course, who is to say you can't have both.  You could hand out the cool looking, but kind-of hard to figure out maps to the players, and keep a ref hexed map for yourself with all of the key goodies and encounter areas on it.

Having said that, I would welcome any kind of cartography that people want to do on the Federation worlds.  If someone wants to do this, I would like to request doing the maps of the sparsely populated Outpost worlds FIRST, because that is where most of my adventures take place.

But that's just me being greedy...  Innocent  If you want to map Gran Quivera first, be my guest...

Speaking of the Frontiersman - these would be GREAT plug-ins as bonuses to our "subscribers".  Every issue has a Frontier planet map in it.  There has been some of this already, but I have noticed that they have not had too much in the way of man-made facilites such as highways and cities.  Make sure to include that stuff if you want to go about this.



I was actually going to map Clarion first...or, rather, transfer it from yellowing grpah paper to computer file....

A planet map in each issue...good thinking, Brian.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
June 19, 2008 - 9:49pm
Imperial Lord wrote:
If someone wants to do this, I would like to request doing the maps of the sparsely populated Outpost worlds FIRST, because that is where most of my adventures take place.


Okay, here's Laco: 20 triangles worth of desert terrain, throw one StarPort into the mix somewhere.


Seriously, I've never seen the 20-triangle bit before (despite some Traveller RPG time) but it sounds like a cool format.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

aramis's picture
aramis
June 19, 2008 - 10:44pm
the Icosahedral projection (the 20 triangle projection) has been used in Traveller, Space Opera, and 2300. It predates gaming use... but the simplicity of it for game use has made it quite well received by players of those games.

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
June 20, 2008 - 8:00am
Rum Rogue wrote:
TerlObar wrote:
I'm not sure how the planet maps in the StarFrontiersman were made. We probably need to ask w00t or CCR.


I *think* they used the Fractal World Generator from Dire Press.

Its on the LINKS page. Or try this: http://direpress.bin.sh/tools/


This is what I've used and I believe CCR used them for some of the early planets. He will have to respond as I don't know if he made up most of the maps or if they were submitted.

From my module:
http://starfrontiers.us/node/1558



Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
June 20, 2008 - 8:22am
Maps like that look nice, but they are not game maps.  They need to be supplemented with hexed maps.

If we are going to include planet maps in each new, smaller issue of the Frontiersman, then we should include a hexed map as well.  It does not necessarily have to cover the whole planet - maybe just a "hot-spot" of potential adventuring.  This could be an unexplored region, or one overrun by bandits/smugglers/pirates, or a tense border area.

Sometimes just looking at a map like that, with some minimal background information, is enough to cook up a campaign scenario.

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
June 20, 2008 - 11:01am
Someone on the dNd forums posted that they use Google Maps or Google Earth to find a piece of earth they like and then remove names and such. Check it out.
http://flickr.com/photos/jeffme/2360229170/

As Impy pointed out - maps needs hex overlays which are very easy todo with Gimp or Word.

BTW, there have been zero submissions for Issue 9 that have maps. If some would like to throw together a systems topology map for a couple of the space-type submissions that would be nifty!

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
June 20, 2008 - 11:15am
Larry -

Either that, or someone could make a hexed-out map of some of the previous planet profiles from the Frontiersman.  I'm pretty sure we already have some groundwork in this regard with the previous issues.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
June 20, 2008 - 12:59pm
Is there a template for the Icosahedral map (20 sided breakdown)? I'd like to try my hand at a full planet.

Histran coms to mind...it was a pivotal point in my campaign.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
June 24, 2008 - 4:01pm
http://pps00.cryst.bbk.ac.uk/course/section5/quaternary/virus/t1.jpg

Is this the format that was used in those other games? If so I'd like to give Histran a spin with it (and Theseus afterwards for a try at a heavily populated planet)

I presume the center strip represents the equatorial region and the top and bottom the polar caps?
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
June 24, 2008 - 5:35pm
That's a low resolution one, yes. Here is a higher resolution one out of the GURPS Space book. The scan is a little crappy as my scanner (an old parallel port model) is on it's last legs.
planet map

The site scaled it down by a factor of two and I scaled it down by another factor of two in the display.  If you right click and view image you will see it at the full scale the site scaled it to.  I have the higher resolution one if you want.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
June 24, 2008 - 5:32pm
If you use that one, multiply the planet's diameter by 0.07 to get the distance across one hex.  If my scanner was working I would have scanned the entire planetary record page.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
June 24, 2008 - 7:39pm
Cool, thanks Terl. This ought to be fun...
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
June 25, 2008 - 2:56pm

Wow Tom!  Wowowowow!

Sweet mappage.  Funny how you like Histran, Shadow...  You are on the way to that system in the campaign you are starting with me!


I see this as a good omen.  Tongue out


Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
June 26, 2008 - 1:48am

Well...I tackled the high population world first, here's my interpretation of Minotaur:

http://starfrontiers.us/node/3116


Link at the bottom of the page has the icosohedral map.

I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

umungus's picture
umungus
June 26, 2008 - 8:08am
Shadow Shack wrote:

Well...I tackled the high population world first, here's my interpretation of Minotaur:

http://starfrontiers.us/node/3116


Link at the bottom of the page has the icosohedral map.




Looks cool Shadowshack. How did you color in the hexes?

At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy......


Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
June 26, 2008 - 1:50pm
Thanks!

I did an overlay with MS paint, using an overhead shot of a city for Maze, overhead of an ice flow for the polar cap, of an ocean for the sea, and a simple color fill for the desert end. And of course had to make sure the opposite edges lined up LOL
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
June 26, 2008 - 3:21pm
Nice write-up, although the astronomer in me (remember that I have an Astronomy Ph.D) was screaming after the first two sentences in the Planet History section Smile. Here is why:

1) This one was no big deal but seemed a little odd. 7th of 11 planets makes it really crowded in close to the star. As a G1 star is only slightly more massive than our own Sun (a G2 star) the orbital distance from Minotaur to Theseus would be about the same as that from Earth to Sol, especially since you gave it about the same average tempurature as the Earth. Actually, I think the average tempurature is a little higher than Earth's which would require it to be at the same distance or closer to the star. Thus putting it as the seventh object out means you have 6 planets inside that orbit. Tight indeed. Nothing says it can't be done but they probabaly aren't that big as there isn't a lot of material in there to make planets with.

2) Unfortunately, it is not really possible to always have the southern pole always pointed toward the sun. Especially since it is spinning so fast (15 h days). Effectively the planet is like a giant gyroscope and it always wants to keep it's axis pointed in the same direction in space. To keep it pointed towards the sun would take a tremendous amount of torque to keep that constantly shifting. There really isn't anything to provide that torque. Of course that destroys your whole ecology.

A few other things of note about the system. Based on the planetary diameter and gravity, Minotaur is about 17% more massive than Earth but also 16% smaller. That means it as a higher average density at 10.9 g/cm^3. For comparison, the Earth's average density is 5.5 g/cm^3 or about half. This means that Minotaur has a huge iron core and a relatively small mantle.

Finally, the population has to be pretty huge to support a large city that extends in a band all the way around the planet and several thousand kilometers wide. This is one of those areas where each referee has his own idea but the population required to need that much city is probabaly more than I would have in my entire Frontier. I always have thought of the Frontier as fairly low population density even on the "high" population worlds. (Seems we discussed this in another thread somewhere. Here it is http://www.starfrontiers.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=864). It's completely possible to have populations this large (as I showed in that thread) but I like to keep mine smaller.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
June 26, 2008 - 6:19pm
What suggestions would you drop for this to be more realistic? Moving it closer to the sun, I get that...how close though? Say 4th or fifth, or even closer? And then...raising the length of day? Increase diameter? Both? As for the polar facing I sort of went by the Alcazzar description and took it for a different spin (literally), and as you noted my whole ecological view depends on this facing.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website