 April 18, 2011 - 9:55pm |  How viable is it, within the SF technology, to convert an entire asteroid into a fortress? http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Rifts-PW-Vehicles/Asteroid_Fortress-Large.htm http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Rifts-PW-Vehicles/Asteroid_Fortress-Small.htm Why stop with mere space stations, when an entire rock is avaliable?  It has been a staple of many sci-fi stories, but what would it require? Government and corporate intrests no doubt could afford it... but such locations are classic pirate hangouts, and places that pacifistic space pilgrims run off to, so they can start retro-culture colonies, so could it be that easy?  How would it be done, what would it cost, how well could it be kept secret? Much realated to: Asteroids, Associations, Clusters, Trojans, & SSBs Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 April 19, 2011 - 6:05am | The reasons for the space stations is gravity. All of these asteroid based environments suffer from the same problem, they are effectively zero g environoments. Which, while good for mining and some manufactruing processes, are not good for the workers. They can be done, I have several in my SF universe and I even have some that have gravity due to the asteroid spinning at the correct rate. However, to achieve that could potentially take a lot of energy to stabalize the asteroid's spin and get it up to the correct speed since they are much more massive than ships. (I think I just had an idea for a SFMan article  .)In any case, I don't see any technological impediment to building these kinds of bases as long as you can deal with the lack of gravity. As to cost, they probably would equal to the cost of a ship of the same volume (minus the engines) for the material to build the base out of. Plus the cost of the drilling and transport and such to get everything there. So in the long run, unless the base has some economic value, building a station might be cheaper. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
April 19, 2011 - 7:33am | What of using the 'Frontier Method', and living off the land, reducing the needed materials by using local resources, on the target or nearby 'roids. The question still is how viable is it for a group of Frontier Pilgrims to run off to the wandering rocks, overcoming the obsticals, and settle into agro-farms and resource depot maintenance, when taking into account both the avaliable Frontiier Philosophy and the abundance of applicable technology. Such occurences are taken for granted in many of the influencing fictions, and it seems the frontier has the ability and the motivation to make it a regular occurrence. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 April 19, 2011 - 10:51am | Couple of thoughts: 1. KH's or Zebs says that prisons are on asteroids, there is a cadre that doesn't like star law, that advocates bringing prisoners back to live in prisons on planets "since being close to the rest of society will somehow reform them" However with all the detrimental problems of no gravity and say a 10 year sentence asteroid prisons may be just the ticket to reducing violent crime as the inmates can never return to live on planets and re-offend society. 2. Mechanical life forms (mechanons and such) wont have any such problems with this style of station and would be apt to build and utilize them. Could also introduce "shell people" tech into the Frontier Like Anne McAffery's The Ship Who Sang novel - basically a person so disabled that its better for them to surgically have their brain removed and encased in a mechanical body-ooops we have that, the cybot we just dont all a cybot to be self aware. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 19, 2011 - 11:32am | Good points! While I am not one to appreciate the overflow of the mechanons into the already cramped Frontier area, I don't reject them or thier influence entirely. Mostly I prefer the release of the Mechanon on the greater 'expanded frontier'. Placeing the full efects of the events of sundown much later than typicaly observed, at a time when the vast expanse and capella trade zone has opened for more regular traffic.... but I've been unable to settle on approriate maps of the regions beyond the zeb map... effectively causing me to place a hold on the sundown module entirely... I can appreciate the cybot technology causing problems, and if I am not mistaken, the technology was present before the mechanon influence. I knew about the prisons, and the occasional mentions of agro-farms that are corporate or government sponsered outposts.... but the independent small body pilgrim settlers, that have been seen in some fiction, are still of interest to me. There are many ways to overcome the gravity issue, without resorting to field-tech gimicks, and the ability, determination, and resourcefulness of the Frontier settler should be able to accomplish overcoming that inconvinence I think, a suitable sized cadre that doesn't like the status quo could just leave, some people with suitable agoraphobia, might just keep leaving everytime it gets crowded. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
April 19, 2011 - 5:09pm | Frankly small agro colonies make more sense as an ag ship- gravity is good for the farmers and for the planets and livestock. it can move around and market its product to various moons and planets 1. could have a ag ship that is a work farm for prisoners- no robots but lots of hard work for the inmates 2. commune- self contained and no one can defect easily 3. Pilgrims with a mining ship and an ag ship can live indefinetly on those two platforms as long as they are both equiped with ion engines. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 19, 2011 - 11:14pm | #3 that concept works in a way had not considered! I was thinking a commune/pilgrim situation might be a little too self contained for long term deep space survival, but that 'fixes' that problem well enough to make it viable. Thank you!  a couple ag-ships with living quarters designed to orbit a mining-op at a sutible gravity, could/should be easier to arrange, than trying to alter the gravity of a SSB. when the mining is done, or the area gets too 'hot' to stay secluded.... moving is relatively simple.... facilities that are left behind could be squatered by other parties, for a number of uses or reasons, and part of the cost in facility construction has been taken by the previous inhabitants.... but it still isn't cost effective enough to do it on purpose, which keeps larger organizations from doing it en masse. neat! Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
April 20, 2011 - 11:24am | consider a correlation made in the form of asteroid pilgrims opposed to the use of 'inmate slave camps'... Some of these AgAst-Pilgrim Groups were started before the use of prison asteroids, and indeed were partially responsable for the inital use of them by proving it could be done, and laying the foundation for it. Other AgAst-Pilgrim nomadics were largely formed by those who spent too much time serving in the low-g and couldn't return to a gravity above .7 anyway... Recently a movment among these pilgrims has gotten more serious, (tho' still pacifistic in nature..) and been activly recruiting new members into thier ranks from those who have served 'roid-time'... and have begun to be very outspoken aginst the rights of those being forced into a near permanent exile from maing gravity life.... other items can surround these issues, that might have adventure hook possibilty, but as a basic structure for a political event it has merit? Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
April 26, 2011 - 7:42pm | found this interesting comparison to the classic Planaron asteroid base to the Space Academy/ Star Command installation http://jrients.blogspot.com/2010/09/jason-of-star-frontiers.html certainly looks like a resemblance I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 4, 2012 - 9:04am | nice find! I knew they were out there, just wondering to what extent. Not really looking for the Phineas and Ferb Milk Shake Bar, but wondering what role such outposts might play in a more casual way.... rather than the seemingly cliche pirate base, prison rock... or spaceworm cave... bad example- cool song How much of the frontier might be out there in those divergent settlements... and how far out from the systems might they go, and still be viable and self-sustaining? To variying degrees, it is a classic staple of the golden-age and rocketpunk genre, showing everything from entire academies of all kinds and factions, to lone miners avoiding pirates in the dark, vast, black out-back, between the settled stars. This was my rational by saying, mere space stations, not intending to suggest that they are easier from an engineering standpoint, but that they are more reasonable places for settlers to circle-up-'round, when hitchin-up-the-rockets. I base this idea on the in-game concepts mentioned in the books that; This is all rather dependent on the answers assumed from the realated questions brought up here Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
