Star Frontiersman Issue 16 Discussion
Comments:

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
December 26, 2010 - 2:25pm
Is it out yet?

Whoops, never mind the dumb question.

All in all, a marked improvment from issue 15. The Thesus and Sundown system briefs were excellently written and just as excellently presented. My only question is, should either of these be the template for future system briefs.

Tom's "Discovery" prologue definitely has me wanting more; it's piqued my interest.

Jedi's "Demons" story is an equally good read.

His best work, though, are all of the background articles he's submitted, especially the timeline. His Frontier history is entertaining, thought-provoking, and makes absolute sense.

The Meteor assault shuttle will make a fine addition as well. Kudos to cliff and B.D. for coming up with it.

An outstanding issue, all round. Only bad thing is, you now have me waiting impatiently for #17; if it's half as good as this issue, it will be worth it.
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
December 26, 2010 - 7:32pm
great issue.

Gargoyle2k7's picture
Gargoyle2k7
December 26, 2010 - 7:42pm
I must apologize about the alternate rule mechanic I used on my creatures, by the way.  I am so used to d20 (ability or skill check against DC xx) that I forgot to even look up the actual SF rules...
Long live the Frontier!

w00t's picture
w00t
December 26, 2010 - 7:57pm
Will - system brief template? Can you explain that? Consider signing up for the Star Frontiersman Announcement list, it's on the front page of starfronitersman.com. "Marked improvement from 15" eh? They are all great issues, #15 opened the door to Zeb's. :-)

Allen - No problems, I believe I explained it in the article - it was a neat resolution system. :-)

AZ - Great artwork. :-)





Deryn_Rys's picture
Deryn_Rys
December 26, 2010 - 8:10pm
I'm not done reading through it all, but I found it interesting that in my article I wrote about the UPF Postal Service as a government agency, and in the article on civil service agencies (which I liked so much that I will be using them in my campaign by the way) there was also a Frontier Postal service, so now I'm trying to reconcile the two agencies (because I liked both write ups).

And I sympathize with Garg, because I've had the same problems converting ideas from my project to classic Star Frontiers and sometimes I find that I liked how they came out in classic SF better then how they were in my project (which makes me go back and tweak them some more).
"Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words
"Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words
"You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words
"Did you here that?" -Famous last words

Gargoyle2k7's picture
Gargoyle2k7
December 27, 2010 - 12:25am
BTW, I really like the articles on the government and civil service agencies.  I had been considering something along those lines (eventually), so its nice to see it in thiis issue.  And I love the tables at the end; thanks everyone for all the hard work!
Long live the Frontier!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 27, 2010 - 11:24am
I'm stuck in Maine for another day and have no way to print out #16 to get comfortable with a coffee and read it. but having played a hand in writing a portion and editing even bigger portions I'm fairly well informed on the content.

1st thanks Will for the generous comments on my work, I do appreciate it and I too cant wait for Tom to bring out the next installment of his fiction (I'll very likely assign it to myself for editing so I can be the 1st to read it) I also particulary liked his disaster article on the brown dwarf passing through a system nice bit of reference material that is and it got me thinking about an adventure seeds.

If you liked demons then you can expect a new installment of Bryson and Groom in issue 17 as it just got half written the other day.

The osprey like craft was probably overdo and I'm very pleased to see something like that in the zine

I didn't think I'd like the Starmist system brief (not a super big fan of the module) but it was well done and won me over and the article on creatures while written from a d20 perspective actually did hit all the stat categories for the classic SF creature discriptions and it was very well done and as for the d20 style mechanic of a target number and an ability to test off of I got it immediately and its smooth and easy to use- roll d100 and add the ability score and compare against the target number- probably warrents a short article formally describing that mechanic for the game & and rellating it to the common tasks- its far simpler than the one I wrote for task modifers ie its probably a better way to do it.

Funny how the UPF agencies and civil service orgs overlapped but each was good and gave me ideas

I loved w00ts Villianous NPC article but then I spent a lot of time editing and reviewing it- great campaign ideas.

so the next target date is Feb. for the next issue All in all compared to the competition (not really our competition but other similar fan zines) we produce the best zine I've seen on line but then other zines are challenged in the artwork department and cant even compare to ours. So High Pod to the artist- thanks for your very necessary contributions- keep it up. Now if the Santa Dral will just leave us an art editor in the SFman's stocking we'll really rock this show in 2011.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
December 27, 2010 - 12:06pm
w00t wrote:
Will - system brief template? Can you explain that? Consider signing up for the Star Frontiersman Announcement list, it's on the front page of starfronitersman.com. "Marked improvement from 15" eh? They are all great issues, #15 opened the door to Zeb's. :-)

Allen - No problems, I believe I explained it in the article - it was a neat resolution system. :-)

AZ - Great artwork. :-)





A layout which will give all future system briefs in the zine a consistent look and feel, especially in terms of system maps.

I'm already on the announcement list, I just forgot to check my Windstream account.
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
December 27, 2010 - 12:52pm
jedion357 wrote:
I didn't think I'd like the Starmist system brief (not a super big fan of the module) but it was well done and won me over and the article on creatures while written from a d20 perspective actually did hit all the stat categories for the classic SF creature discriptions and it was very well done and as for the d20 style mechanic of a target number and an ability to test off of I got it immediately and its smooth and easy to use- roll d100 and add the ability score and compare against the target number- probably warrents a short article formally describing that mechanic for the game & and rellating it to the common tasks- its far simpler than the one I wrote for task modifers ie its probably a better way to do it.

I didn't care for the Starmist module myself, but the article was so well-written, and the system map so well and beautifully rendered that you can use it as source material for adventuring in the Sundown system without the module.

jedion357 wrote:
Funny how the UPF agencies and civil service orgs overlapped but each was good and gave me ideas

Frankly, I'd be surprised if the various bureaus, offices and departments of the UPF bureaucracy didn't overlap each other in areas of authority. The ones in our government do all the time.

But that makes for more adventuring ideas, like you said.


jedion wrote:
The osprey like craft was probably overdo and I'm very pleased to see something like that in the zine 

What I'd love to see is stats for the red and white bird on the cover(the one that almost looks the the Rom ships from ST:Nemesis).

I would also love to see an article featuring variations on the assault scout theme. Even militia and UPF birds are unlikely to all have the same weapons loadout, especially with war and assignments to back of beyond postings conspire to create field-expedient modifications.
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 27, 2010 - 12:26pm
Feild expedient modifications to ships and other equipment might be a good idea for an article
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Deryn_Rys's picture
Deryn_Rys
December 27, 2010 - 12:53pm
I don't know if you'd call it overlap but I did mention several instances where one agency would have to deal with a situation until a member of the right agency was contacted and came along to take over a situation. I Also gave hints of at least one agency that has been trying to get its own security service instead of having to use Star Law to enforce it's procedures. For simplicities sake I tried not to make a lot of specialized agencies but to give them broad mandates to keep the feel of a government that is still evolving, rather than one that is long established and has created a large beaurocracy.
"Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words
"Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words
"You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words
"Did you here that?" -Famous last words

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
December 27, 2010 - 1:21pm
Deryn_Rys wrote:
I don't know if you'd call it overlap but I did mention several instances where one agency would have to deal with a situation until a member of the right agency was contacted and came along to take over a situation. I Also gave hints of at least one agency that has been trying to get its own security service instead of having to use Star Law to enforce it's procedures. For simplicities sake i tried not to make a lot of specialized agencies but to give them broad mandates to keep the feel of a government that is still evolving, rather than one that is long established.

Either way, you're going to have areas where various agencies end up stepping on each other's toes, because their areas of responsibility will overlap in some way, like say, UPF postal inspectors investigating a rash of mail robberies by pirates, which will bring in Star Law to help with the investigation of the mail pirates in question, and possibily even Spacefleet and Landfleet to provide heightened security for subsequent mail shipments.

(This actually happened in the States during the 1920s. Mail trains were being robbed, with the Postal Service and the FBI trying to put a stop to this, and U.S. Marines being called in to provide security).

If it's a long-standing problem which falls into the jurisdiction of several agencies, there's always the possibility of the Council of Worlds forming inter-agency task forces to handle the issue.

An obvious example would be the Blue Plague. Even with the disease all but wiped out, the subsequent laws and quarrantines would doubtlessly require Star Law and Spacefleet to enforce them, the MSO to oversee the medical and research side(including the possibility that the Plague will evolve immunity to the vaccine/cure used to stop it and come back ten times meaner), etc.

For simplicity's sake, the Council of Worlds will probably form a task force consisting of high-ranking members of all the concerned agencies to coordinate efforts concerning the Plague.

Also, the post-Sathar situation on Volturnus would doubtlessly involve the UPF military(in protecting the system from pirates, Sathar or both), the colonization buerau(in setting policy for interaction between colonists and natives), the Planetary Survey Administration(busy investigating the various mysteries concerning both the Zebulon system, and the Sathar), Star Law(to make sure any Council policy concerning the system is enforced and to prevent excessive megacorp interference), Warmasters' Guild(to regulate the use of corporate mercenaries, and to provide mercenary troops themselves for the security of Volturnus), and the League of Ambassadors(who will simply be busy maintaining diplomatic relations between the native races and the UPF).

Again, the Council of Worlds might just simply place all their efforts under the aegis of a task force(or standing committee)consisting of the highest-ranking represenatives of the involved agency on Volturnus, in order to better coordinate efforts.

Finally, the military, Planetary Survey Administration, the colonization bureau, Star Law, the League of Ambassadors, Warmasters' Guild, etc. will coordinate their efforts in combatting the Sathar(with the League attempting to establish diplomatic relations with potential allies/potential or former Sathar subject races)into a Federation Security Committee to advise the Council on the best course of action to take concerning issues affecting the security of the UPF as a whole.

 


" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

Deryn_Rys's picture
Deryn_Rys
December 27, 2010 - 2:12pm
I see your point, I just thought you meant creating a multitude of specialized agencies, rather than having the agencies interact with one another as need be. After all big governments, specially those who have territories spead out over vast distances who have too many specialized agencies may end up paralyzed during an emergency as they try to figure out just who has jurisdiction over a problematic situation, where a smaller government with agencies that are broad in scope might not.
"Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words
"Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words
"You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words
"Did you here that?" -Famous last words

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 27, 2010 - 3:49pm
Clarification: when I said overlap between the 2 articles I meant overlap in subject matter

what is set up rather nicely and alluded to by the bully in his post is that you could set up an adventure (particularly a convention game) where all the players come from different backgrounds- postal inspector, star law agent, diplomatic corp, corporate stooge are detailled to fix/figure out a problem, each can do an LOG check to come up with a bit of knowledge  that deals with thier particular job agnency, plus they have an agenda dictated by their agency and they get bonus exp for accomplishing thier agnecy's agenda in game.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Ascent's picture
Ascent
December 27, 2010 - 4:03pm
I apologize to everyone. I might be to blame for the size of the issue. (Something I said.) Though it doesn't look like anyone's really put out. This is 2 issues worth of material. Works for me, I guess. Lots of stuff to read over the next few months.

Holy cow, Tom. You've been busy. But as always, I like your ideas and how well you develop them. Great stuff throughout the magazine. I'm looking forward to reading all of it.

I just realized I never provided a version of my robot equipment article with adjusted costs, so feel free to adjust the costs as you like. Those were just my initial toss in costs to move on to the next item.
View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)

w00t's picture
w00t
December 27, 2010 - 4:59pm
The Sundown system map took FOREVER to make. I think I did it three times, the last one using a suggestion from Bill. :-)

Issue 17 will feature an entire line of Assault Scouts. I think there is 10 AS total WITH pictures. Oh ya... gonna be sweet. 

If we have 10 articles on a frontier-wide postal service I'd be happy. Everyone has great ideas, I'd never reject something because it was already covered. So... those of you that want to write, please do. jedion wrote a cybernetic implant article after we published "cyberbionics" a conversion from FrontierSpace(TM) to Star Frontiers. jedion had some great ideas!

Great stuff guys!

I might jump in the Adventures in History and post the Malthar's history with full encounters. lol. Thanks to Chris, Tom and Patrick for helping!






Bilygote's picture
Bilygote
December 27, 2010 - 5:04pm
Thanks all for the kind words...Haven't had a chance to checkout the rest of the zine yet...I'd like to know if anyone actually uses the Sundown System in the future and how it works out.

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 27, 2010 - 5:29pm
@ Ascent: actually some of my stuff in this issue was written and submitted awhile ago Wink
it just caught up with the publication que lately.

trying to shepherd some colaborative stuff through the zebs project and funnel it into the zine
which will help to get other names into the zine by default as they contribute so that its not just my show. Could use some art for the various initiatives in zebs, nudge nudge, wink, wink
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

w00t's picture
w00t
December 27, 2010 - 5:50pm
Bilygote wrote:
Thanks all for the kind words...Haven't had a chance to checkout the rest of the zine yet...I'd like to know if anyone actually uses the Sundown System in the future and how it works out.

I plan on using it for a FS setting (renaming stuff of course). Smile
To me, Starmist feels alien. I like the planetary writeup in the module and the heliope history. I could do without the sathar base of operations, undetectable plant gas,  and the sonic crying trees....


Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
December 27, 2010 - 7:39pm
Ascent wrote:
I apologize to everyone. I might be to blame for the size of the issue. (Something I said.) Though it doesn't look like anyone's really put out. This is 2 issues worth of material. Works for me, I guess. Lots of stuff to read over the next few months.

Holy cow, Tom. You've been busy. But as always, I like your ideas and how well you develop them. Great stuff throughout the magazine. I'm looking forward to reading all of it.

I just realized I never provided a version of my robot equipment article with adjusted costs, so feel free to adjust the costs as you like. Those were just my initial toss in costs to move on to the next item.

Apologize for what, Corey? Issue 16's fine as it is.

More than fine, in fact. 
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 30, 2010 - 3:27pm
Haven't finished the issue yet but so far so good. One favor to ask for those of us who are not CEOs of large corporations. Could we not have black backgrounds on pages. Tends to wipe out the ink cartridge pretty fast. More later on issue
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 30, 2010 - 6:57pm
rattraveller wrote:
Haven't finished the issue yet but so far so good. One favor to ask for those of us who are not CEOs of large corporations. Could we not have black backgrounds on pages. Tends to wipe out the ink cartridge pretty fast. More later on issue


I actually load mine on a thumb drive and walk it down to Staples and jack it into their printer for a .49 cent color copy. its proven cheaper for me than trying to maintain my own printer
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
December 30, 2010 - 8:34pm
rattraveller wrote:
Haven't finished the issue yet but so far so good. One favor to ask for those of us who are not CEOs of large corporations. Could we not have black backgrounds on pages. Tends to wipe out the ink cartridge pretty fast. More later on issue

I agree with you, and I don't print mine for that very reason.  When I'd editing, I print in draft mode, two pages per sheet, greyscale and am careful not to print the all black pages. Smile  For a couple of issues we had a thinner, more ink friendly border as well but Larry decided to go back to the old one.
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Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
December 30, 2010 - 11:43pm
I read mine on the computer for that same reason, tho, I might just go ahead and have Staples do all the work. 49 cents a page is not a bad deal at all.
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 31, 2010 - 12:04pm
One more time, I live in Alabama so the drive to a Staples like place is just something to add to the cost. .49 cents a page? So your like the vice president in charge of Star Frontiers printing?

Anywho seriously all of us on this forum love and appreciate all the hard work which goes into the graphic design and layout of the each issue. Just would like a printer friendly version so I can still save for my grandkids college.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
December 31, 2010 - 12:20pm
rattraveller wrote:
One more time, I live in Alabama so the drive to a Staples like place is just something to add to the cost. .49 cents a page? So your like the vice president in charge of Star Frontiers printing?

Anywho seriously all of us on this forum love and appreciate all the hard work which goes into the graphic design and layout of the each issue. Just would like a printer friendly version so I can still save for my grandkids college.

Nevermind that last post. I calculated the actual cost, plus sales tax, and concede the point.

It's cheaper to just view the zine on my computer screen.

Eventually, the vice president of Deadbrokewhiteboyz might even scrape together enough for a Kindle....
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 31, 2010 - 8:02pm
Dudes you only print the cover and system maps in full color most of the book can be printed at the B/W cost. but I think you can order an on demand printing form one of the online sights that does that thing but w00t would have to say which it is- which will likely get you your hard copy at a reasonable price
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Georgie's picture
Georgie
January 2, 2011 - 7:21am
Just finished reading Adventure Bots part three. Excellent work by C.J. Williams.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.    * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
January 2, 2011 - 9:07am
Actually (and this is my last comment on this) printing in black and white is more expensive. By spreading the printing between the color cartridge and BW cartridge I don't wipe out the BW cartridge which I need for straight letter printing.

My main reason for printing is it gives me something to reference while my wife is on Farmville. That being said, I print out what I really like and not things like the cover which looks great but not needed and the fiction acticles unless I find something I really like and want to exploit ah use creatively.

So why don't we have poles on what our favorite parts of each issue is?
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Ascent's picture
Ascent
January 3, 2011 - 3:23pm
Georgie wrote:
Just finished reading Adventure Bots part three. Excellent work by C.J. Williams.
Hey, thanks, Georgie!

To pass the love on: Still working on the mag. So far I've thoroughly enjoyed Cosmic Catastrophes by Terl (I love having a scientist in the community.) and the Creative Refereeing article by jedion. I already saw Allen's creatures and will be glad to use them sometime. (We can always use more creatures!) Thanks, jedion, for the How Many Weapons? article (I know someone who could seriously use a refresher in that.) and good stuff in Adventure Concepts; in fact, I like pretty much all your stuff. Thanks to Victor and Matthew for the UPF Agencies and Civil Service Organizations (still have to read that one). I like expanding the UPF.

I'm looking forward to most everything else, but especially the Teleportation Tech, Meteor Class Assault Shuttle, and the Frontier History section. I always read the fiction last.
View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)