 October 19, 2007 - 11:07am | What are we going to do with the skills for the newer rule books? Because everytime I play the game we alway used the Vampire style skill rules or based them off of main attributes/abilities (similar to the D20 game system). Confucious Says: Man with one chopstick go hungry. Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement. |
 October 19, 2007 - 11:34am | are you saying importing skill sets from other games? |
October 19, 2007 - 4:08pm | Yeah, you lost me too. I didn't know anything needed to be done with the old skills rules, so I guess you're talking about new skills that get introduced? If so, I hope not too many new skills get introduced. The current skills already cover quite a gammut. |
 October 20, 2007 - 10:09pm | I think what he's saying is that the old rules (specifically Alpha Dawn) had a skill system that disassociated skill success rate with any attributes, leaving much to be desired by today's RPG standards (and the rules for Zeb's -- instead of fixing the situation -- presented a completely incompatible rules set and far too many skills). What he did (and many others) is take the skills rules from another game system he prefers, and use them in Star Frontiers. I, personally, would like to see his rules -- perhaps in the House Rules Wiki project. He wants to know, if new rule books were to be developed (as is the case in several projects), what kind of skill rules are to be used? In answer: Corjay's 25th Anniversary Edition is attempting to use a new skill list based solely on the skill lists from Zeb's Guide and Alpha Dawn, while keeping the skill rules in Alpha Dawn mechanics. This is a great approach, and will make many people happy. The "Digitally Remastered" project took the approach of just using the skills from Alpha Dawn as-is, then relying on the monthly (very late right now) webzine to provide new ideas in a clearly-optional forum for folks to consider or implement. For example, several articles have been presented allowing for modified skill sets or mechanics devoted to including ability score modifiers to skill use. The skills from Vampire are cool because they were comprehensive through a catagoric approach, rather than an attempt at an exhaustive list, which is in-line with how Alpha Dawn does. Of course, it would have to be adapted/modified to explain certain differences in genre. Do you have your skill rules typed up anywhere? 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
October 20, 2007 - 11:03pm | Corjay's 25th Anniversary Edition is ... keeping the skill rules in Alpha Dawn mechanics. You're probably trying to say this in a different way, but just to be clear, my skills treatment seeks to capitalize on both systems, not just Alpha Dawn. I will also be listing the base ability (STR, RS, LOG, etc.) so that people can choose which skill resolution system they prefer. A person can use solely the Alpha Dawn system, or they can use solely the Zeb's system, or they can capitalize on both systems, and they can choose to use the prescribed percentile system of Alpha Dawn, or the prescribed column shift of Zeb's, or one of the ability-based skill resolution systems. It is meant to be flexible in a way that I don't think has ever been done before, and most importantly, simple to switch between them without rewriting your character for each system. Listing the ability also helps with untrained attempts. It will also be simple to understand (clearly defined; not confusing). |
October 21, 2007 - 5:06pm | Corjay's 25th Anniversary Edition is ... keeping the skill rules in Alpha Dawn mechanics. You're probably trying to say this in a different way, but just to be clear, my skills treatment seeks to capitalize on both systems, not just Alpha Dawn. I will also be listing the base ability (STR, RS, LOG, etc.) so that people can choose which skill resolution system they prefer. A person can use solely the Alpha Dawn system, or they can use solely the Zeb's system, or they can capitalize on both systems, and they can choose to use the prescribed percentile system of Alpha Dawn, or the prescribed column shift of Zeb's, or one of the ability-based skill resolution systems. It is meant to be flexible in a way that I don't think has ever been done before, and most importantly, simple to switch between them without rewriting your character for each system. Listing the ability also helps with untrained attempts. It will also be simple to understand (clearly defined; not confusing). Do you have a working example I can role play/test with? I'd like to see it "live". |
October 21, 2007 - 6:13pm | It's in the 25th Anniversary Edition Rulebook project. |
October 21, 2007 - 6:26pm | By the way, I'm still in the process of recovering the documents from the switchover to the single spacing RTF editor. So the reading may be a little hard at the moment. |
October 22, 2007 - 6:35am | It's in the 25th Anniversary Edition Rulebook project. this? http://starfrontiers.us/node/595 or you got a link? :-P |
October 22, 2007 - 7:16am | No. That's the section before skills. That is the optional Zeb's column shift mechanic. Here's the link to skills: http://starfrontiers.us/node/351 |
October 22, 2007 - 7:21am | I'm currently done with the Skills list up to the Crime skills. I'm in the process of adding the Base Abilities to each skill and formatting them. I'll finish the rest tonight. I also formatted everything from the beginning of the book to that point. Let me know if there's anything in the book up to that point that needs clarification or if you have any suggestions. |
October 24, 2007 - 9:45am | I've finished formatting the skills and adding the Base Ability text. |
April 5, 2008 - 5:57am | I'm using the original SF rules (digitally remastered) and it appears to me that we lack at least a couple of PSAs. For example a scientific one would be useful covering Scientific knowledge, investigation and invention. or a security one, covering law, security procedures and correct investigatory procedure. How about a basic skill PSA that covers running, jumping, swimming and climbing etc that all characters would automatically get? |
March 1, 2009 - 3:32am | Here are some house rules for you if you would like to use them. I have added one PSA, an "adventure" group, which covers most of the missing things, and one ungrouped area. I have dissolved some of the existing skills together. The base skill percentage is always equal to 1/2 its base attribute, rounding up. A skill level is equal to its base level plus 10 per skill experience level. I ignore the rules about selecting a PSA. Instead, a starting character gets 40 experience points to spend on skills. A maximum of 20 may be spent in one PSA at start. Human characters get 10 bonus skill points, to be spent wherever they wish. Each skill level costs a certain amound of experience points per level: Level Experience per level Total xp cost 1 5 5 2 5 10 3 10 20 4 10 30 5 15 45 6 15 60 7 20 80 8 20 100 All skills can be used untrained at their base level. Only certain sub-skills may be attempted untrained. All sub-skills have the same level as the skill they are part of. PSA Group Skill:Base Attribute Martial Unarmed (formerly martial arts): Strength Melee Weapons: Strength Ranged Weapons: Dexterity Thrown Weapons: Dexterity Technology Only the operate sub-skills may be used untrained. Infotech (formerly computer): Logic Robotics: Logic Technician: Logic The demolitions skill from military is added here as a sub-skill. Science Environment: Intuition All sub-skills except tracking, analyzing samples, and make tools/weapons can be used untrained. Stealth is no longer a part of the environment sub-skill; it is assigned to athletics. Medicine: Intuition First aid only may be used untrained Pscho-Social: Intuition Empathy, Persusion, Communication may be used untrained Adventure Pilot: Reaction Speed This is the ability to control all modern vehicles, from ground cycles to starships. Can be used untrained. Rogue: Dexterity Sub-skills: Pick pockets, conceal objects, forge hand signatures, binding, escape bonds, pick mechanical locks. Cannot be used untrained. Athletics: Dexterity Sub-skills: Climb, Run, Swim, Jump, Ride Animal, Stealth. Can be used untrained. Ungrouped Language (cost: 5 xp per language) For example: My Dexterity is 55. I take the Athletics skill, and buy level 2 experience, for 10 xp. My base level is 23. I add 20 for experience. My total skill level is 43. I ignore the PER/LDR stat group completely (it can be stricken from the character sheet). Use the psychosocial skill (based on intution) for tasks involving charm and leadership. |
 December 31, 2009 - 9:13am | I like valency's idea, but I would also include some skills for the PER/LDR attribute. Something along the lines of bartering (reducing the cost of items), persuasiveness (increased ability of talking your way out of or into situations), and maybe even inspiration (everyone in the player's group receives a temporary combat bonus upon a successful roll, due to the "influence" and inspiring words of the player). A diminished return of investment could be placed on parties with multiple players possessing the Inspiration skill (+10, then +5, then +2, etc). I would however keep the PSA rule in place, maybe allowing an exception for players with certain INT/LOG attribute levels. |
 January 15, 2010 - 3:45pm | Traditionally, people treat the Computers skill as treating everything having to do with computers, and Robotics dealing with everything having to do with robotics, and Technical having to do with everything mechanical that is not a robot or computer. When you look closely at the subskill lists, however, you see that this is incorrect in what the designers originally intended. Here's the key I discovered after the last few years of dealing heavily with trying to revise the skills system: No two skills overlap. I will be explaining this in an article, but it basically comes down to this: Computer skill deals only with computer programming (it avoids the actual machinery). Robotics deals only with the fine tuning of autonomous machanery (It relies upon a computer programmer to do the actual programming [computer functions and robot functions are one and the same, and the Roboticist has no subskills to deal with robot programming], but a programmer provides the robot's programs, but cannot make a robot work, they can only give the Robotics person the tools they need to do so.). The Technical skill deals only with tooling mechanical parts (They can use robotic arms to construct machines, they can tool machines, and they can drive machines, but that is all; robotics relies on the Technician to provide and repair the mechanical parts that robotics uses). The only person that can build a robot from the ground up is someone with Computer, Robotics, and Technician skills. Besides this, they must also have a skill to provide design, welding, metalurgy, plastics, glass molding, and circuitry/electronics, which none of the existing skills do. My intent is to provide an Electrical skill and a Fabricate skill to handle the missing subskills needed to build a robot from the ground up. Note that the philosophy I have expounded here contradicts the Spy PSA stuff presented in issue #13. Don't take it as challenging it. There are all sorts of ways to create skills. It just so happens that the philosophy that went into the core rules for the Star Frontiers system was meant to be dealt with as I described above. I think that both Doug Niles and Kim Eastland missed the point of how the skills were developed and most everyone misses the limitations (I did until I figured the above out the other month). View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
January 5, 2014 - 11:26am | I've recreated a list of skills, and so far I've tested them in actual gaming (not every single one, however). Not too bad so far; I plan to post them eventually. I'm also big on the original Alpha Dawn canon rules, so I leaned heavily in that direction. |
