 February 2, 2018 - 6:36am | There is a paragraph in Zebs (Im working form the digitally remastered one right now) about mines, it appears right after the descriptions of the various detonators and just before the descriptions of grenades but on the equipment lists where your get the weight and cost details there are no mines? I'm guessing the PCs were not intended to purchase them? In light of the chinese menu format of Zebs with the missiles being a choice from column A and a choice from collumn B; maybe you're supposed to match a detonator with one of the missle warheads? If so its actually a pain in the butt to use and fiddly IMO. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 7, 2018 - 12:36pm | What about laser and sonic mines? These might need a particular design to work well. Maybe they would operate similar to claymores and would have a cone of destruction in front of them? sonic marbles in zebs IIRC I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 7, 2018 - 12:55pm | Oh, yes, but wouldn't you want a sonic mine to operate a bit differently than a grenade? Joe Cabadas |
 February 7, 2018 - 1:26pm | What about laser and sonic mines? These might need a particular design to work well. Maybe they would operate similar to claymores and would have a cone of destruction in front of them? I pondered the same thing earlier in the thread. Both could operate over a cone shaped area, in which the SEU setting deals out damage within a limited range. You could perhaps do the same with other energy weapons (rafflurs etc). So, instead of a focused beam of X SEU power acting up to X metres, you have a cone of the same potential damage but limited to a shorter but wider reach. Pretty much a fan of energy in three dimensions. I don't imagine it would be as much damage as a rifle, but perhaps more than a pistol. Marble and other grenade effects would also potentially work - a wide area tangler, for example, is an interesting idea. |
February 7, 2018 - 1:30pm | Or, to take Jedion's comment, how about a "sonic" mine that spits out a dozen or so marble sonic grenades in all directions? Sort of a cluster-bomb mine? Joe Cabadas |
February 8, 2018 - 8:51am | Or, to take Jedion's comment, how about a "sonic" mine that spits out a dozen or so marble sonic grenades in all directions? Sort of a cluster-bomb mine? I like this as an alien device for the PCs to trip over. spits out "grenades" in 8 directions as per the grenade bounce diagram and boom! talk about rattling someone's cage. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 8, 2018 - 11:41am | Yep, I mentioned marble grenades when I made my first post in this thread  A couple of my players used to like throwing marble greandes around when the situation wanted it. I think they'd like a claymore that did the same thing.There are airsoft and paintball claymores so a marble grenade claymore wouldn't be too much of a stretch of the imagination. |
February 9, 2018 - 9:26am | Yep, I mentioned marble grenades when I made my first post in this thread A couple of my players used to like throwing marble greandes around when the situation wanted it. I think they'd like a claymore that did the same thing.There are airsoft and paintball claymores so a marble grenade claymore wouldn't be too much of a stretch of the imagination. Yes, that's why I offered the idea of a mine that disperses a bunch of them. Sorry for not referencing your post. Joe Cabadas |
February 10, 2018 - 12:37am | I think we had a design way back when for incendiary marble grenades. One type just burned super-hot, the other threw out a small amount of sticky burning liquid. I think we also had a canister round carrying 6 marble grenades, which could be fired from a grenade rifle or grenade launcher. |
February 10, 2018 - 3:44pm | I think we had a design way back when for incendiary marble grenades. One type just burned super-hot, the other threw out a small amount of sticky burning liquid. I think we also had a canister round carrying 6 marble grenades, which could be fired from a grenade rifle or grenade launcher.
Ok: interesting idea cannister shot almost a throw back to black powder canon days and cannister shot. I like this idea. 6 marbles to a cannister shot use grenade bounce table to determine where they go. Its about disrupting groups. Sort of like using cannister to blow away boarding parties in age of sail or infantry charging the guns. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 11, 2018 - 1:28am | Cannister shot is still used in artillery to disperse mines - it's like a cluster bomb. FASCAM is one system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Scatterable_Mines The only problem really to me is the grenade bounce stuff with multiple grenades, as it's high maintenance for the referee  But if the grenades are set to explode on impact, it gets less messy. In general though, the idea of the canister is just some sort of quick way to launch a handful of marble grenades at ranges over normal throwing range.I think we also had some sort of sleep/stun gas marble grenade. |
March 1, 2019 - 4:21pm | You could use the claymore pattern with other types of offensive weapons used in SF. For example, it could be a claymore-like mine but instead it uses a laser, or has an electro- or sonic stunner effect. Maybe one throws out marble grenades. I do like this idea! Joe Cabadas |
March 1, 2019 - 4:22pm | Having actually denoted claymore mines in training (not combat) a couple quick things. Effective range is a subjective term. Some say it is the range you can reasonably expect a kill 50% of the time others range at which a weapon can still kill, others same maximum effective range which is also subjective. Also the claymore mine has been in use for more than 50 years. Improvements have been made. Oh and terrain has an effect on effective range. Usually for the claymore mine it is the BBs exploded from it that are used for determining damage. The shock wave is not. I watched balloons set up 20 feet behind the mine burst because of the shock wave. In front is worse. You are instructed to put something like sandbags behind the mine to protect yourself. Mine detection equipment needs to be specialized. Metal detectors work for some but many mines are all plastic these days. Different types of explosives mean using different types of scent detection settings. Also some mine detonators can be detonated by the mine detection equipment. Grasshopper mines were usually called Bouncing Bettys in my day but I am getting old. Personnally I would not use alot of reality with mines and go for the more dramatic effect. A true minefield is a death trap characters would not escape. See the movie Uncommon Valor to see a minefield in action Vrusk take great offence at the term bug hunt. Good info! Joe Cabadas |
March 2, 2019 - 10:05pm |  The Claymore might be a worthy conversion to SF. Especially for game tending toward bug hunts. This diagram says effective range is 50 meters and Wikipedia says shrapnel travels 110 meters. How about these designs? Claymore Mines. Named after a large Scottish medieval sword, this is a class of anti-personnel mines that are activated by remote control. It directs its energy outward, in one direction, mostly in a 60 degree arc. Star Frontiers claymores come in five models – with fragmentation, electoral discharge, sonic, sonic stunner, and tangler warheads. These mines have a primary blast range of 50 meters and a secondary range of 75 meters. Anyone or anything within the 60-degree arc may be caught by the mine’s blast zones –a 50 percent chance, and a 30 percent chance in the secondary zone. Its effects are mitigated by terrain – those not in a line of sight from the mine will not be affected. For example, a character could be hiding behind a log or around the corner of a building. Characters who are prone, but exposed have a 30 percent chance of being affected if they are in the primary blast zone, but no chance of being hit in the secondary zone. Although most of the blast is focused in one direction, defenders using claymores with the explosive, sonic and sonic stunner warheads are instructed to place something such as sandbags behind the mine to protect themselves. · Fragmentation Claymore. This mine will do 8d10 points of damage to targets in the primary blast zone, and 2d10 points in the secondary zone. Characters can mak ea Reaction Speed check to take half damage. · Electrical Discharge Claymore. This acts as an electrical discharge grenade to any targets in the primary blast zone, shorting out electrical equipment. It also acts as an electrostunner set to damage for every bioform in the primary blast area. This unit does not have a secondary blast zone. · Sonic Claymore. A sonic weapon, it’s power decreases the farther a target is away from the detonation point. It will do 10d10 points to anyone or anything within 10 meters of the mine, 8d10 points to targets within 15 meters, 6d10 to targets within 20 meters, 4d10 to targets within 30 meters, and 2d10 points to targets out to 50 meters. · Sonic Stunner Claymore. Anyone within the primary blast zone must make a Stamina check or be stunned for 1d100 turns. In the secondary blast zone, a character receives a +30 percent bonus to avoid falling victim to the stunning effect, which would only last 1-50 turns. · Tangler Claymore. These munitons throw out hundreds of strong, sticky polymer threads.T hese threads stick to everything within the primary blast zone. Characters can make a Reaction Speed check to avoid the threads. This weapon does not have a secondary zone.
Joe Cabadas |
March 3, 2019 - 10:04pm | The Claymore might be a worthy conversion to SF. Especially for game tending toward bug hunts. This diagram says effective range is 50 meters and Wikipedia says shrapnel travels 110 meters. How about these designs? Claymore Mines. Named after a large Scottish medieval sword, this is a class of anti-personnel mines that are activated by remote control. It directs its energy outward, in one direction, mostly in a 60 degree arc. Star Frontiers claymores come in five models – with fragmentation, electoral discharge, sonic, sonic stunner, and tangler warheads. These mines have a primary blast range of 50 meters and a secondary range of 75 meters. Anyone or anything within the 60-degree arc may be caught by the mine’s blast zones –a 50 percent chance, and a 30 percent chance in the secondary zone. Its effects are mitigated by terrain – those not in a line of sight from the mine will not be affected. For example, a character could be hiding behind a log or around the corner of a building. Characters who are prone, but exposed have a 30 percent chance of being affected if they are in the primary blast zone, but no chance of being hit in the secondary zone. Although most of the blast is focused in one direction, defenders using claymores with the explosive, sonic and sonic stunner warheads are instructed to place something such as sandbags behind the mine to protect themselves. · Fragmentation Claymore. This mine will do 8d10 points of damage to targets in the primary blast zone, and 2d10 points in the secondary zone. Characters can mak ea Reaction Speed check to take half damage. · Electrical Discharge Claymore. This acts as an electrical discharge grenade to any targets in the primary blast zone, shorting out electrical equipment. It also acts as an electrostunner set to damage for every bioform in the primary blast area. This unit does not have a secondary blast zone. · Sonic Claymore. A sonic weapon, it’s power decreases the farther a target is away from the detonation point. It will do 10d10 points to anyone or anything within 10 meters of the mine, 8d10 points to targets within 15 meters, 6d10 to targets within 20 meters, 4d10 to targets within 30 meters, and 2d10 points to targets out to 50 meters. · Sonic Stunner Claymore. Anyone within the primary blast zone must make a Stamina check or be stunned for 1d100 turns. In the secondary blast zone, a character receives a +30 percent bonus to avoid falling victim to the stunning effect, which would only last 1-50 turns. · Tangler Claymore. These munitons throw out hundreds of strong, sticky polymer threads.T hese threads stick to everything within the primary blast zone. Characters can make a Reaction Speed check to avoid the threads. This weapon does not have a secondary zone.
Good ideas I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
