 January 29, 2018 - 11:51am | The describtion of Vrusk mentions that there are "Vrusk Adventurers, however, do not belong to a company. Some are independent business men, some are company employees who were fired and some were just to rebellious to put up with company rules. A few start their own companies and eventually become leaders in their communities." This of course begs alot of questions. 1) What is a Vrusk adventurer? Is any Vrusk not working for a Vrusk conglomerate or trade house considered an adventurer or those that work for megacorps, Spacefleet and the UPF considered regular Vrusk? 2) Vrusk are raised from birth by their conglomerate or trade house to be a part of the system. What does it take to get fired from their system. Remember that for a Vrusk they are not losing their job like Humans, they are losing their identity/nationality. 3) Vrusk are based on 80s Japanese corporate society and a little bit of the Samuri society at least how Westerners understand both. I am not an expert on either of those societies but the Ronin or masterless Samuri are treated in popular culture how much of that carries over to the Vrusk Adventurer. 4) What do traditional Vrusk think of these Vrusk Adventurers? Given the highly structured society where even communication is determined by your social standing and ettique is everything there must be special rules for dealing with Vrusk Adventurers. My belief is that any Vrusk character will have a complicated back story about how they ended up in their current situation in the game. Definitely much more than "I am Hitit from Clan Beatthem, you are my life enemy, prepare to die" Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 January 30, 2018 - 3:06am | I'd say the reaction of 'regular' Vrusks to such individuals would be based on what those individuals do and have done, and how much is known about them. The description of the adventurers provides a pretty wide field of possibilities. Either way, their being outside the Vrusk societal norms is a big issue but not so much that they somehow can't later have other Vrusk work for them and not be excluded also. This may have been a way that the designers of SF could provide a means for players having Vrusk characters that were these sorts of individuals. Well, it sounds that way to me. It means that playing a Vrusk didn't always have to mean that you were some sort of cog in a larger Vrusk machine. |
January 30, 2018 - 5:17am | Sounds right for the Vrusk except for those who are "too rebellious". Almost sounds like the Howard Sterns of the Frontier. Refusing to confirm to any expectations of what society calls for. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
January 31, 2018 - 7:30am | Even 'rebellious' Vrusk could be the type that players play. Maybe they're younger Vrusk influenced by non-Vrusk cultures, or simply don't see Vrusk society as anything but restricive. They could be older Vrusk who've simply become tired of the various societal conventions. Also, perhaps the 'rebellious' moniker is applied to them by the wider Vrusk society, where in fact that individual is merely daring not to accept Vrusk culture for quite mundane reasons. Like I said, it's a wide field of possibilities. |
 February 1, 2018 - 9:31am | 1) What is a Vrusk adventurer? Is any Vrusk not working for a Vrusk conglomerate or trade house considered an adventurer or those that work for megacorps, Spacefleet and the UPF considered regular Vrusk? I think "Vrusk adventurer" simply means "Vrusk player-character." It's telling the reader that, while most vrusk are ordinary company men, the vrusk you play will be different. Mostly it's to explain why your vrusk character is going off on troubleshooting adventures for Pan Galactic Corporation rather than going to the factory every day. 2) Vrusk are raised from birth by their conglomerate or trade house to be a part of the system. What does it take to get fired from their system. Remember that for a Vrusk they are not losing their job like Humans, they are losing their identity/nationality. Probably the same things that humans do to lose their jobs. Embezzeling to a vrusk may be the same socially as treason to a human, but in either society it'll get you fired. 3) Vrusk are based on 80s Japanese corporate society and a little bit of the Samuri society at least how Westerners understand both. I am not an expert on either of those societies but the Ronin or masterless Samuri are treated in popular culture how much of that carries over to the Vrusk Adventurer. I'm no expert on these either. I don't see any samauri in vrusk. There is a resemblance to Japanese corporate culture, and not just in the '80s, but I don't think it's fair to say that vrusk as "based" on it. The SF authors wanted an alien race that focuses on business, which happens to be one of the main focuses of SF. 4) What do traditional Vrusk think of these Vrusk Adventurers? Given the highly structured society where even communication is determined by your social standing and ettique is everything there must be special rules for dealing with Vrusk Adventurers. I don't see anything that says vrusk necessarily have etiquette for speaking to people not of your social standing. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. And it really depends on the circumstances. An "adventurer" might be a vrusk who has started his own business. A low-level secretary who is a normal member of society might be lower on the totem pole than a successful owner of a small business, but higher than an unemployed drifter. My belief is that any Vrusk character will have a complicated back story about how they ended up in their current situation in the game. Definitely much more than "I am Hitit from Clan Beatthem, you are my life enemy, prepare to die" Maybe, but I wouldn't force players to write a complicated backstory for a new vrusk character. It's enough to know that this character isn't your average nine-to-fiver. |
February 3, 2018 - 8:57pm | Quickly, Yes the Vrusk are based on the Japanese corporate culture of the 80s. Unless you know of another business dominated, ettiquette obsessed culture of the late 70s/early 80s. While I do not understand this culture fully, I do understand that it has its roots in the Samuri culture applied to the business world following the dismantling of their military after WWII. They could not be warriors so they applied it to the corporate world. So Vrusk speak to "adventurers" the same they speak to others of the same standing. Please picture a Southern Baptist Pharmacy owner speaking to a Colorado Medicinal Marijuana Dispensary owner. Are you sure the conventional, traditional one is going to use the same ettiquette in speaking to the "adventurer" one that they would use with another traditional pharmacy owner. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 February 3, 2018 - 9:17pm | Quickly, Yes the Vrusk are based on the Japanese corporate culture of the 80s. Unless you know of another business dominated, ettiquette obsessed culture of the late 70s/early 80s. While I do not understand this culture fully, I do understand that it has its roots in the Samuri culture applied to the business world following the dismantling of their military after WWII. They could not be warriors so they applied it to the corporate world. So Vrusk speak to "adventurers" the same they speak to others of the same standing. Please picture a Southern Baptist Pharmacy owner speaking to a Colorado Medicinal Marijuana Dispensary owner. Are you sure the conventional, traditional one is going to use the same ettiquette in speaking to the "adventurer" one that they would use with another traditional pharmacy owner. I am not a pharmicist. I am not a Southern Baptist. But I went to an independent Baptist Seminary and I did drink the Baptist Kool-aid a little and I live in a state where they supposedly legalized marijuana recently so let me take a stab at this: I'd be professional and courteous. Was that what you were getting at? Because in the parameters you listed I did not see any other response. Colorado Marijuana dispensery asshole is just another customer to a a vrusk and he will not jephordise a potential company relationship no matter how much he is bothered by medical marijuana bullshit: oh I have ADD I need a medical marijuana card, I studder, I need a MM card, I'm fucking depressed i need a MM card: well I have a ingrown toe nail can i get a card? This baptist seminary drop out/ kicked out hypocrit (which ever time you want to reference my leaving the seminary) offered to obtain pot for his dad, a 4x cancer survivor, on the occassion of his 4th round of kemo who declined the offer because he had lived a life of not using pot and was not going to start in his 70's (it was not legal at the time): I'm not really getting your point. I think vrusk are rational, reasonable thinking individuals. they have values whether to their company or to thetheir current employer for "adventuring vrusk". and to imply that they have the morals of a Southern Baptist is idiotic. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 4, 2018 - 6:07am | Blimey - not being American I have no idea what you guys are making your analogies with |
February 4, 2018 - 7:26am | The idea is that Southern Baptists are very conservative while someone working in the legal medicinal marijuana industry is much more liberal. If the two met at a convention I do believe they would be rational and reasonable but that is not what we are discussing. We are discussing how they would treat each other with proper ettiquette and what that ettiquette would be. Rules of Ettiquette are not always based on reason. The extreme customs used by the Vrusk have many layers which outsiders do not truly understand. Think of Americans where some greet each other with a handshake while others high five and others use the Dab and others allow no physical contact. Mostly American know which to use and not use when meeting new people. But those same Americans have no idea how deeply to bow when meeting a Japanese person or how to properly address a member of the English nobility especially what to do if you ever met the Queen. Something people in those cultures handle quite easily. We can not generalize Vrusk adventurers as they have many different reasons for being outsiders but I do feel they would not be treated the same as other Vrusk. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 February 4, 2018 - 12:22pm | We can not generalize Vrusk adventurers as they have many different reasons for being outsiders but I do feel they would not be treated the same as other Vrusk. That point I can agree with. Along with understanding that the Vrusk are based on the Japanese corporate culture, though I don't think they are samuri. Yazarians sure, but not Vrusk. The Dark Side of the Moon module is the closest we get to what the TSR guys were thinking of Vrusk culture. Unfortunately they spent most of their time developing modules for exploring strange new worlds rather than detailing the existing strange new worlds and cultures in the game. Joe Cabadas |
February 4, 2018 - 12:38pm | I'll agree with this point as well. Joe Cabadas |
February 4, 2018 - 5:16pm | That point I can agree with. Along with understanding that the Vrusk are based on the Japanese corporate culture, though I don't think they are samuri. Yazarians sure, but not Vrusk. The Dark Side of the Moon module is the closest we get to what the TSR guys were thinking of Vrusk culture. Unfortunately they spent most of their time developing modules for exploring strange new worlds rather than detailing the existing strange new worlds and cultures in the game. I always thought of the Yazirians as a nomadic warrior culture like Beduoins or the Mongrels from the Steppes. Mainly because clan is more important than who is leading the clan while to Samuri they were loyal to their leader. The reference was that the Japanese took the total loyalty and dedication of the Samuri and made it the driving force of their corporate culture. Not that the Vrusk were Samuri warriors. Love the Dark Side of the Moon. Some expansion of the Vrusk there would have liked a little more but then again we don't have anything similar for the other three races. Drammune Run only gave us the Malthas and a multi-race planet. Warriors of the White Light only did one Human culture and not really much beyond the military and government. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 5, 2018 - 7:51am | The big error being made here is comparing one aspect of a race's behavior to one particular real-world culture, then assuming that other aspects of that real-world culture will therefore apply to the race's behavior. One of the strengths of pre-Zeb's Star Frontiers was that its races were not just elves and dwarves in space, but were actually alien. Yes, they were based on certain tropes and generalizations, but these were then developed to be unique and interesting. To say things like "the Vrusk are based on Japanese corporations" and feel like you've "solved" it is a disservice. It doesn't help you in any way understand the Vrusk, unless you start importing things the book never says. If Japanese corporate culture comes out of a suppressed Samarui code, why would that mean the Vrusk have anything that resembles Samarui in their past? |
February 5, 2018 - 8:56am | I will just disagree with you on that. The Core Four races all have unique cultures which are obviously not Earth based. They do bare similarities to Earth based cultures. Given the time frame the game was written in, the extreme ettiquette, the total dedication to your company then yes a similarity to that culture is there. An exact match is not there. All of Japan was not Japanese Corporate culture. There were and still are many subcultures. While the Vrusk are given as having a mainly Corporate culture, two others are given. The smaller trade houses which would have differences from the Corporate and the Adventurers. Getting back on topic how do Vrusk society views Adventurers. Dark Side of the Moon was my impetus for this since if Vrusk are included in the party I was wondering how the Vrusk on Kraatar would deal with them. Should interactions be modified in anyway especially when dealing with mixed parties. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 5, 2018 - 10:29am | I will just disagree with you on that. The Core Four races all have unique cultures which are obviously not Earth based. They do bare similarities to Earth based cultures. Given the time frame the game was written in, the extreme ettiquette, the total dedication to your company then yes a similarity to that culture is there. An exact match is not there. All of Japan was not Japanese Corporate culture. There were and still are many subcultures. While the Vrusk are given as having a mainly Corporate culture, two others are given. The smaller trade houses which would have differences from the Corporate and the Adventurers. Getting back on topic how do Vrusk society views Adventurers. Dark Side of the Moon was my impetus for this since if Vrusk are included in the party I was wondering how the Vrusk on Kraatar would deal with them. Should interactions be modified in anyway especially when dealing with mixed parties. Does the module suggest a reaction? If it doesn't I dont see why you couldn't create one. Perhaps vrusk trade and conglomerate culture view non aligned vrusk the same as the other members of the core four- perhaps something akin to "Gaijin" not neccessarily the same as that but a vrusk term with several layers of meaning that can be variously translated as "other" Originally, during the rise of the trade house at the implosion of the hive culture. the term was used for anyone not of your group/trade house. Over the centuries the term has evolved and applies to anyone not trade house or conglomerate and had a negative connotation. in this evolution of the word its the culture represented by the trade house and conglomerate system from which individuals or groups are identified as "other" In the modern Frontier the term was applied the other species and so some degree the negative connotation was softened. It can be used of non trade house vrusk and the other members of the core four. In addation going back to the discussion of flicking emotions with the antannae- while the word is spoken its the use of the antenna that reflect whether its just used to identify or used with a degree of insult. and there are several layers of meaning that can be added to it in vrusk that are largely lost on speaker of Pan Gal. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 5, 2018 - 1:42pm | Yes, to be honest I never saw the Vrusk culture and society as being anything like that from Japan. They seem more like hive-living wasps (the insect kind) with a capitalist bent. Culturally, their way of doing business favours conformity to a certain extent, and thus adventurers don't fit that particular mould. Mind you, I can't remember 'Dark Side of the Moon', so perhaps I'm missing some details. I will admit though that if Vrusks are merely chitinous samurai living in an 80s Japan-like culture, they'd be much more boring. 'Human, all too human...'  |
February 5, 2018 - 4:22pm | I cant see them as bug samurai either. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 5, 2018 - 4:50pm | Yes, to be honest I never saw the Vrusk culture and society as being anything like that from Japan. They seem more like hive-living wasps (the insect kind) with a capitalist bent. Culturally, their way of doing business favours conformity to a certain extent, and thus adventurers don't fit that particular mould. Mind you, I can't remember 'Dark Side of the Moon', so perhaps I'm missing some details. I will admit though that if Vrusks are merely chitinous samurai living in an 80s Japan-like culture, they'd be much more boring. 'Human, all too human...' A must read for Star Frontiers: Dark Side of the Moon: http://www.starfrontiers.com/Modules/7818%20-%20SFAD6%20-%20Dark%20Side%20of%20the%20Moon.pdf Joe Cabadas |
February 6, 2018 - 12:43pm | Cheers  I owned it and ran it, but just don't remember it. A re-read will no doubt jog my memory... |
