Pirates

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 17, 2016 - 4:48am
SF has several Pirate 'organizations' that appear in it.

However I was thinking on the nature of pirates in RL vs SF. In SF we seem to have Pirate armies, versus just the owner operator small business pirate ship of old.

I think there should be room for the following: the small time pirate operation, small organized groups, big groups, rival groups/ships, pirate coves, pirate extended families.

Privateers: Pirates that have a piece of paper authorizing them to be pirates against a specific enemy of said government (Sir Francis Drake)... mercenaries/pirate line could be pretty thin.

Pirate group also seems to be very human on Volturnus.

If a government where to actually invade a "pirate island" I doubt they would kill everyone in the settlement or would they? 

I am thinking of making some rival or competing groups to RD, Privateer captains/ships and so on.

Anyhow just some thoughts...


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."
Comments:

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
May 17, 2016 - 11:30am
Piracy would be shaped by the nature of space travel.

It would be pointless to try to run down a ship on an interstellar journey, unless you caught it just as it was arriving or leaving its destination planet. The speeds involved are too great for interception.

Interplanetary shipments could be targeted. Space is so vast that it's practically impossible to see everything in it that might be heading toward you. On the other hand it's very, very hard to hide if your target is looking in your direction. Too bad Star Frontiers gives us almost no guidance at all on how to handle system travel.

Attacking surface-to-orbit shipments probably isn't a good idea, as this is the time when a ship is likely to be most closely monitored by surface and/or orbital control stations.

Perhaps the most lucrative method of attack for space pirates would be to land in a small planetary settlement and raid it. You could choose just about any location at all on the whole planet and take off again before the authorities figured out exactly where you were. Planets are big places; even if they know your general location they have to find you exactly, and that takes time.

Pirates usually aren't sadistic murderers—they're most interested in profit. They'll usually leave prisoners alive and unharmed in case they get caught by authorities: being tried for piracy is not as bad as being tried for murder.

In addition to pirates, there are also smugglers. These are more likely to have an organizational infrastructure supporting them than pirates are, as someone needs to arrange the secrecy of loading and unloading the contraband, plus further precautions like forging credentials. Pirates are more opportunistic than smugglers.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
May 17, 2016 - 12:00pm
I would think that in some cases, space piracy may involve an inside job. Someone informs a so-called pirate band -- or a privateer from a rival mega-corporation -- of a valuable shipment and is able to give the crooks a general location where a freighter will be jumping in and out of a system.

Pirate vessels are probably much faster and more stealthy than a freighter. A cargo ship also is probably vulnerable when it is decelerating and nearly at a planet, yet too far out for the planet's orbital defenses (if any) to help.

A mole inside a shipping company might be able to smuggle a transmitter onto a cargo vessel, which would allow the pirates to track a ship once it comes in system.

But, as Stormcrow mentioned, pirates probably have much better luck landing and attacking isolated settlements, asteroid mining ships and the like than intercepting a vessel in space.
Joe Cabadas

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 17, 2016 - 6:56pm
Good points:

This get's me thinking about Texaco in the Spanish Civil War. The CEO of Texaco sold fuel to one spanish faction, the socialist nationalist faction on credit (against US law), he had his ship captains report the movements of tanker ships especially if they appeared headed to Spain from other ports, he then forwarded the intel to the allies of that faction (Germany) who than sank those ships. 

So I could see a Mega-Corp having their captains report ship movements of rivals to HQ and HQ forwarding that info to others.

Smuggling rings probably fall into the "pirate" idea in SF. a lot of "pirate" activity is really illegal mining, slave labour & smuggling the mineral resources it seems in SF.

Inside job mole makes good sense.

Illegal salvage?

Pirates need a support net the same as everyone else in space... ship overhauls, supplies, ports of call, fake papers, fake transmitters and so on. So I think "pirate" communities could exist.


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
May 18, 2016 - 4:37am
As with the Red Devils and the Malthar "pirates" in SF are more like organized crime syndicates than bandana wearing sword welding ship hijackers.

Having a large support base as for your ship means you could not support it with just cargo hijacking. The Red Devils used slave labor and mining to supplement. Malthar supported pirates for a mutual defense pact. In the White Light system the pirates were Corporate sponsored by Streel.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 18, 2016 - 4:55am
So Privateer/Mercenary & Organized Crime is really what most pirate ops would be.

This means funded somehow bases, networks, alliances and all the trappings. You could have governments very easily that where "Pirates" more than we think of governments. OC run governments. 
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
May 20, 2016 - 11:53pm
Tchklinxa wrote:
I am thinking of making some rival or competing groups to RD
rattraveller wrote:
As with the Red Devils 

SD/Star Devil is the faction from Volturnus, there is no mention of Red Devil in any canon material. Their logo was a red devil encircled with silver stars, to which I have since house-ruled the number of stars denotes rank within the organization.

Stormcrow wrote:
 being tried for piracy is not as bad as being tried for murder.

That all depends on who is trying the pirates. Old English law considered even the lowest deck swabbers of a pirate vessel sufficient enough to warrant the gallows, whereas Jack the Ripper would have stood a better chance in those same courts. ;)

JCab747 wrote:
Pirate vessels are probably much faster and more stealthy than a freighter.

The attack vessels, for sure. However, pirates are just as apt to utilize freighters and other civilian grade vessels (possibly upgunned) as well, luring unsuspecting vessels via distress calls etc and turning corsair once help arrives. Also noteworthy, the pirate warships all lack cargo holds and sufficient passenger accomodations so they are useless when taking target freight & passenger haulers, as there simply isn't space for the valuable cargo or potential slaves, not to mention they lack the additional crew to guide those vessels home either. So at the very least, a secondary civilian grade pirate vessel is lurking out there to accomodate any such valuable loads taken by the attack craft.




P.S. multi-quoting issue, I really don't get it anymore...typically only the first one works and I have to edit the others that follow. It's backwards now, the first pair got FUBAR'd and the second pair worked.

Sealed
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 20, 2016 - 8:31pm
Opps on the RD I meant SD... RD is a meat product. Foot in mouth
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

iggy's picture
iggy
May 21, 2016 - 1:54pm
The most current real life example I can think of is the Somali pirates who were principally interested in ransoming the ship.  They exist(ed) due to the lack of government in Somalia.  In the frontier I could see organized crime and secretive support from mega corps using this model of piracy to hijack ships for ransom when they passed through unprotected sections of space.  They would seek freighters or passenger vessels to hold for ransom, not for the goods.

Decelerating into a system is the time of danger when a pirate may come along with grapples, match speed, and board you.  Maybe they don't even have to gain access to the ship, just a grapple so that they can attach a bomb and then threaten to detonate it if anyone gets near or the ship heads to port.
-iggy

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
May 21, 2016 - 3:30pm
How pirates operate depends entirely on where your "reality level" is set in your game.  If your "reality rating" is >0, then the classic raiding ship that pops up out of some convenient hidey-hole, disables the engines then boads is not gonna happen.  Space is too big and ships can be spotted ridiculously long distances away (the Space Shuttle's maneuvering jets could be seen way out past the asteroid belt with the right gear).  In that case, "pirates" are more properly called "shipjackers".  The inside job, as someone pointed out up thread.

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 21, 2016 - 9:09pm
Space pirates Dr WhoSpice pirate ship Dr who pirate captainSPDragosSP 2They never listen
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Bluddworth's picture
Bluddworth
May 23, 2016 - 10:46am
Hello,

I have only recently gained an interest if SF, after a 30+ year break.  I all of a sudden, a few weeks ago began to wax nostalgic for the PnP RPGs of the 1980s and Star Frontiers was near the top of my list.

Piracy is actually one of my favorite activities in gaming, and piracy in SF is absolutely doable, without the suspension of reality (kind of funny to say that in the context of a fiction).  

Just because space is vast, does not mean that there are not trade routes.  There are likely to be wormhole gates (both natural and sentient being made), that can also be ambush sites.

As for space piracy being done with warp speed as an obstacle, that has been handled by EvE Online, with the use of "Warp Bubbles".  If you are not familiar, the warp bubble is deployed and it creates an interference radius that will "pull" a ship passing through it out if warp.

Pirate ships in EvE are also, often, equipped with "webs" that slow ships down and warp scramblers that prevent a ship from jumping to warp.

How can you loot in space?


Others have already mentioned, ransom is the primary means of space piracy.  The pirates attack and damage the victim to near death, and then they stop firing, make contact, and demand a ransom.  Victims can eject cargo, or wire money directly to the pirate's account.

Although pirate friendly systems are possible, they would likely become the target of many organized alliances that rely on trade.  I believe it is more feasible for a pirate to be a lone actor, and stick to living in outer rings of populated systems or to commingle with smugglers and mercenaries, who occasionally have a use for the galactic powers that be.  

Piracy could also be a moment of opportunity kind of crime, and not one that the captain engages in often or certainly not openly so.

I look forward to what you come up with.  I'm planning on playing a character that steps over the line and into criminality from time-to-time.  

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 23, 2016 - 12:12pm
I am personally open to a variety of options with pirates. As a plot device I personally do not need 100% realism. So I am open to a bunch of ideas I have seen in movies & tv. 

The inside job was shown in Fire-Fly in which the passenger/unexpected wife sabotages the ship leading it to the scrapping machine... so the adventure is all about regaining control of the ship and disabling the trap the ship is being pulled into would probably be on the more realistic end.

I am going to use navigation aids (Space buoys, transit boxes, something) in the game and if someone where to gain control of one of these they could cause a ship to jump into the wrong system.

Privateers are a must... legal pirates. From my way of thinking there are colonies not on the map, salvage operations and more on the edges of civilization. The corporations where not playing nice, smaller governments had wars, and racial tensions are a problem in PF & FY. I don't see the early UPF as a powerful law enforcing agency. So plenty of room for lone pirate ships to more organized groups. I am thinking the Yazirians had a history of it, it is only when they attack major colony trade routes/areas that the "common muster" occurs, so that was the line. 

Nets, the warp bubble idea is nice, grapples, and so on 


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
May 23, 2016 - 3:26pm
Here's a challenge. Space is not as empty as you think. One point of view presented here is that pirates could not get close to victim ships because they would be seen coming parsecs away. To this I have three answers.

1) It just doesn't matter. So the frieghter sees an unknown ship heading at them. The unknown is 4 hours out at current speed. It is travelling three times faster than the frieghter can make and even if they speed up will still catch them in 6 hours (don't do the KH math just go with it). Unless there is another ship WILLING to help the frieghter they should break out the tea set and get ready to meet their guests.

2) Who said you can see them? Sensor packages in SF are not Star Trek spot a match on a planet surface from orbit. Even if those are available the odds of a merchant frieghter having them are low. Throw in sun spot activity, electromagnetic distortions, rogue meteors, known space junk, a basic sensor jammer you can buy at Radioshack (yes I know they went out of business but this is the 80s) and you can see sneaking up on merchant shipping is not as hard as the insurance companies want us to think.

3) How do you know they are pirates? Simply switching out your Identification beacon can let you get pretty close to other ships especially if they are using common space travel lanes. Hang with me a minute, anyone see the opening episode of Fear the Walking Dead this year? You had the teenage girl talking on the radio with the nice guy for a few hours. Know how that turned out? Yep not so nice a guy and he had gathered all the information he needed to target her vessel. A bored Yazirian on bridge duty could just as easily be tricked into providing information by a smart Vrusk pirate.

4) SOPs. This one is kinda SF specific but 80% of the shipping is supposed to be owned by Trans Travel. This means most of the shipping is working with the same Standard Operating Procedures. If you know the procedures then you can work out ways to bypass them and get to the good cargos. This is basically how our current group of terrorists keep blowing up airplanes.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
May 23, 2016 - 5:52pm
^ We can detect the space shuttle's maneuvering jets from out around the asteroid belt TODAY, just with 21st century tech.

iggy's picture
iggy
May 23, 2016 - 9:08pm
If we can't get cought by pirates becsuse they are too easy to see coming then the Sathar are too easy to see coming too.

Playing with the math I see it this way.  The attacker and the prey have a long long drawn out chase and then once the attacker is in range weapons are fired on the flyby.  Then the attacker swings back around the long long way and picks up the pieces.

Or, if the prey is significantly slower than the attacker then grappleing is an open option but again the chase is a long afair and there will be shooting to disable the prey from manuvering away from the attacker during the grapple attempt.  Again a long swing back flight path may be necessary to get back to the prey for the grapple.

Note, when I say long chase, think days.  Then the KHs action starts.

Most of these events would happen in the outer system where militia and UPF vessels are stretched thin to cover such a vast volume.  The common senario is to catch ships comming in on common vectors and already be at speed to meet the jumping vessel.  The attacker is powered down and cold coasting at speed to be the least detectable.  The jumping vessel starts slowing down while the attacker is coasting along at speed waiting for the prey to burn off a bunch of it's momentum.  Then the attacker turns power back on, lights the engines and starts the chase.  This all depends on a ton of intelligence about common flight plans and vectors and then a bunch of luck that the prey appears out of the void close enough to where the attacker anticipated them to be.

Attacking a ship leaving a system is much harder as they are accelerating and cose in to the systems inhabited world(s).  There is too much support for the prey for most attacks to be feasible.

Given these senarios, the most effective method is sabotage.  Plant a mole or ship a bomb on the prey and have a prearrange schedule for the attack to happen.  For a bomb, trigger detonation when the ship is passing an asteroid or using gravity assist to change vector.  The mole(s) do(es) the dirty work when the ship gets to some place out of the way or at low velocity to disable the ship and wait for the attacking ship to come collect.

This does give me a cool adventure idea though.  Floating derelic ship that was sabotaged but the pirates never showed up to collect.  Maybe the sabotage happed in the wrong place so the pirates are still looking for their prized prey and lost comrades.  PCs board for salvage and then find they have goods that the pirates want months or years later when word gets out that they found their missing prize.
-iggy

Bluddworth's picture
Bluddworth
May 24, 2016 - 3:55pm
Pirates could be masters of using various types of space interference that blocks you from seeing them on your sensors or from visual sighting.  That is of course if you want to rule out cloaking devices.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
May 24, 2016 - 4:12pm
Bluddworth wrote:
Pirates could be masters of using various types of space interference that blocks you from seeing them on your sensors or from visual sighting.  That is of course if you want to rule out cloaking devices.


Stealth technology. Radar absorbing materials, jammers, and no cloak needed.
Joe Cabadas

Bluddworth's picture
Bluddworth
May 25, 2016 - 7:55am
Damn, my internet connection at work sucks, I've tried to post this three times....

I not only think there should be other, smaller and perhaps even larger pirate bands, but I also think that Pirate could be its own PSA.

On the Star Frontiers Wiki there is a Criminal PSA, and that got me to thinking that either Pirate could be a sub group of Criminal or considering the number of unique skills a Pirate needs it could have its own.

As JCab747 mentions above, Pirates need to be pretty tech savy.  They also need to have exceptional piloting, computer and combat skills.  It will also be helpful to have Social skills like Criminal Contacts, and Market / Trade skills.  Perhaps finally, a bit of Engineering would be helpful, for either retorfitting civilian vessels for pirating use or for havign some expertise is stripping parts from ships that they have captured as prize.  

A pirate needs to be somewhat of a "Jack of All Trades", but may not live long enough to master any.

I am also planning on creating a pirate character, along with his crew, and recording his exploits as they go through various adventures.  Although I may not actually play the game to do this, there would certainly be enough references to the actual game mechanics (skills, equipment, etc) and the setting of their adventures, for the reader to tell these are Star Frontiers inspired short stories.

 
 

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
May 25, 2016 - 8:02am
We know there are bands of pirates (yes plural) that lurk in the  Planneron asteroid belt in the White Light system (funded by Streel to make trouble for the Clarion government). Plus the infamous Star Devil and his band.  There was the band that followed Hatzck Narr, but it is implied that they were wiped out.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
May 25, 2016 - 6:57pm
If you want a glimpse into what piracy is like in Star Frontiers, do what I did and look no further than the Volturnus trilogy of modules. It doesn't take much to rewrite that so the players can portray pirates. Whip up some NPC "good guys" that they have to find/kill while ransacking the Serena Dawn. If the NPCs escape (and if they get killed, whip up more NPCs that did manage to escape), continue on with SF-1 and have them stationed at Outpost 1 and Slave City 1. For the grand finale, they are part of the decommissioning crew that assists in evacuating the planet as the first Sathar landing parties arrive...to that end I created a third structure dubbed Sea Port 1 at the end of the dry canal as a main base per se where the characters had to help load some expensive equipment onto shuttles, along with a KH battle as the pirate ships attempt to escape from the Sathar warships who are attempting to intercept them.

And if you really want to get fancy, rewrite Dramune Run where players are agents of the Malthar for a KH adventure.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

JCab747's picture
JCab747
May 26, 2016 - 4:48pm
Oh, one other thing I thought of, if a freighter could detect pirates inbound and tried to flee, but knew they couldn't outrun the enemy, they might use their remaining time to plot an emergency jump. A great plot device for a misjump to an unknown system.

One example would be the incident where the UPFS Hellscar had encountered Sathar warships, got heavily damaged and then misjumped into the S'sessu system. (OK, the Sathar aren't pirates but you get the point.)
Joe Cabadas

iggy's picture
iggy
May 26, 2016 - 5:37pm
Yes, this is a very probable strategy for a fleeing freighter.  They pop out of the void and are already near 1% C.  All they need is some risk calculations to make another jump.

The other tactic that we have not touched on is traveling in groups.  Convoys are a great way to keep predators at bay and this is very convenient for the local malitia because they can arrange to be present for an escort for a large group.
-iggy

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
May 26, 2016 - 6:29pm
I don't recall who mentioned it but one point I would address is the detection process.

Sure, a ship can be detected at 300,000km by the basic KH radar package, and the energy sensor can detect atomic drives at a range of 500,000km. Regardless of whether you permit ship identification at such ranges or not, one tactic still remains at their disposal for "sneaking up on the target ship" --- my aforementioned use of civilian craft. A captain won't be put at such a sense of unease if a freighter or liner is approaching as they would a frigate or assault scout. Also noteworthy, one the freighter gets close enough another tactic I mentioned was ferrying a warship in the hold (such as a scout or a small squadron of fighter craft) that can be unleashed at closer ranges. Or the pirate civilian ship could simply feign distress and request help, once their victim docks and boards the pirates can swiftly overwhelm them and take their ship.


Another rules SNAFU can be raised here, the energy sensor jamming description opens with how they can't be fooled by window yet closes with how they can't detect ion drives (stating that most ships with energy sensors are equipped with radar to counter this fault). I read this as any ships being screened by the ion driven craft are readily detected, but the screening craft itself can not be detected by the energy sensor. Meaning if a ship was equipped with only an energy sensor, it would be blind to ion driven craft. While such craft would be rare, after all anyone that can afford the 200K Cr energy sensor should have no problem affording an accompanying 10K Cr radar unit, if the radar should malfunction then ion driven craft would suddenly become invisible. Pirates could feasibly place agents in the target ship's crew and disable the radar in order to permit an ion driven craft to sneak up on the ship. 
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
May 26, 2016 - 7:57pm
Q-shipping might work in the right circumstances.  The overarching problem is that any decent ship captain ought to be very suspicious of any ship that is CBDR-ing him.  Space is so vast and the number of ships relatively so small that the odds of a random ship innocently and coincidentally heading right for him are virtually nil.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
May 26, 2016 - 8:54pm
JCab747 wrote:
A great plot device for a misjump to an unknown system.

This is another issue I have qualms with in the rules. KH states a misjump has the ship arrive at a random star within X light years of the intended destination star (with X being equal to the actual intended distance travelled between stars). Why can't a misjumping ship arrive in unoccupied space? There's certainly a lot more of that then there are stars.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 27, 2016 - 4:00am
It's the nature of void space where the gravity Wells created by dense objects like stars and black holes create a simple into which the ship which can be thought of as a marble will automatically roll. 

If I could find my notes from my class in quantum void space physics I could detail why a speed of 1%C is required to get out if the gravity well and enter void space but the math is complicated and it hurts my head.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
May 27, 2016 - 4:50am
The detection process has one other little flaw. It assumes the engines are on. Once you reach the speed you want, since space is frictionless you don't need engines anymore. No engines no detection. You will need a good description of the direction and speed of your target but one ship scanning and another intercepting and you can avoid the detection ranges.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

JCab747's picture
JCab747
May 27, 2016 - 4:59am
Shadow Shack wrote:
JCab747 wrote:
A great plot device for a misjump to an unknown system.

This is another issue I have qualms with in the rules. KH states a misjump has the ship arrive at a random star within X light years of the intended destination star (with X being equal to the actual intended distance travelled between stars). Why can't a misjumping ship arrive in unoccupied space? There's certainly a lot more of that then there are stars.


Isn't another problem about traditional KH rules the fact that there isn't supposed to be any time during Void travel? If you accelerate to enter it, how and who would have figured out a way to decelerate in the Void when there is no "time" to do so?

I also find the idea that you always jump into a star system a bit lame... of course, if you use the idea of a gravity well... you could jump where there's an uncharted brown dwarf or a black hole (not that I think there should be a bunch of black holes in the Frontier. Ebony Eyes is probaby all there is... though they have an awful lot of neutron stars in that area)
Joe Cabadas

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 27, 2016 - 5:53am
These are very long detection ranges were talking about here, how much information is discernable at these ranges. It seems to me that there aught to be gradations of distance and information. 

At extreme ranges you just know for sure that there is a ship there. Closer in you can begin to tell size and class and more info. 

This could also be an opportunity for a skill check for the character on scanners (astrogator?) to roll to see if he refines the data sooner than possible at that range. 

Something like this could be a 15-20 minute encounter in a AD/KHs game where you tell the players basic info of ship X at extreme detection range with speed and bearing Y & Z what do you want to do? Use the KHs map and rescale the hexes so that 1 hex is really 10 KH hexes and use counters. 

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
May 27, 2016 - 6:10am
rattraveller wrote:
The detection process has one other little flaw. It assumes the engines are on. Once you reach the speed you want, since space is frictionless you don't need engines anymore. No engines no detection. You will need a good description of the direction and speed of your target but one ship scanning and another intercepting and you can avoid the detection ranges.


There's still a couple 100 degree Kelvin difference between your warm spaceship and cold outside space.