 February 8, 2016 - 6:02pm | I'm throwing this question open to the general populace here. There are, apparently, some SF afficianados who think that any updating or modernization of the state of SF represents an offence against "hard science". While I do get that SF has a certain "feel", such as the "no artificial gravity fields" idea, and I support that, apparently in the opinion of some, fusion tech in general, or the idea that a tracked vehicles that perform the same role as a wheeled one are of the same type some how is the same thing as introducing "lightsabers" and "Star Trek" into the game. Oh, and computer data exchange is still limited to the old DARPA-net level of capability (so "No Internet for you!"). At the same time, hand-held lasers that can actually hurt you operating off a power source the size of a pack of cigarettes, and AI robots are just fine, because they're "canon". Am I the only one that finds such a rigid, dare I use the term "canon-Nazi" approach a bit "Wha?" |
February 15, 2016 - 4:55pm | No one is talking about "mixing in other themes". That is the mistake that was made initially. Updating the base science in a realistic way would not hurt the "hard science" feel of SF in the slightest. |
 February 15, 2016 - 5:08pm | I don't really see Star Frontiers as a 'hard science' RPG. It's always seemed to me to be more a sort of space opera, with nods to a few scientific ideas. Yes, some of the spaceship stuff may have some basis in reality but you could replace that with something less realistic and the premise of the game would still work. To be honest, there doesn't seem to be much in Star Frontiers that screams 'hard science'. I don't recall it being mentioned as one of the core themes in any of the official resource material. |
 February 15, 2016 - 6:15pm | So little setting and tech is actually properly defined in the rules for anyone to actually agree on what Star Frontiers is. Hit the search box on the upper left of this site and you can find plenty of threads attempting to find out what everyone agrees Star Frontiers is. We all invision it a bit differently. So don't worry to much about how one fan sees the tech versus another. Here's an example of how tech can develop differently in different societies. I'm an electrical engineer and was trained at the tail end of the cold war. I learned about computers from the PC revolution where little microprocessors made computers available to all. Recently I worked with an engineer that grew up in the Soviet Union and we got talking over dinner about the good old days when we were in school. His schooling was different in focus and computers were a limited part of it. He told me how when he first came to the West he was blown away by PCs. His whole focus on engineering changed. My point is that tech is driven by societies. I could go on for quite a bit listing cool projects that never got developed because our marketing studies did not show profits or the CEO, Chairman of the Board, or guy with the investment capitol didn't like it. Star Frontiers tech can be anything the gaming group creates. The rules are just seeds to start from. -iggy |
February 16, 2016 - 12:54am | That's true. Canon in this sense is pretty much 'what's in the officially published material', but some might see that as quite clearly defined in a certain way, and therefore there are some things that go outside that remit. If any given Wiki doesn't allow certain things that it doesn't consider in the canon flavour, one can simply ignore it if your game allows for such non-canon stuff. But that Wiki is free to make it's own rules too - it's essentially another gaming group that does things differently to yours. |
 February 20, 2016 - 10:21pm | Coming in very late to this. I guess you could call how I picture the SF as a... can I say bastard? of any that would want to stay with canon. The tech has to advance, other wise you're stuck in the same universe as Battletech where nothing seems to change even when more advanced weapons of the Clans are brought in. But even in that setting tech did change and advance. What I use for tech and the spacers is a mix of every thing sci-fi has brought. You might have worlds with tunics like from Star Trek or common dress as from Babylon 5 or Firefly. If a PC want to believe his laser looks like Han's blaster or a phaser or PPG, I'm fine with it as long as it's stats remain consistant. Even had the crazy idea of adopting Zentradei battlepods for human sized use, however AT Votoms generally were cheaper and not as fragile. And no we have not added Gundams or Macross Valkryies as that would really upset a balance that we have. Besides if we had Valkryies and mobile suits we wouldn't be playing SF at that point. But I have allowed ships from anime like Outlaw Star in. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 February 23, 2016 - 7:26pm | Going with film and TV Star Trek did a lot with tech at different times. The various shows took place over a couple centuries and did advance. Star Wars takes place over at least 60 years but does not seem to advance their tech or really need to. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 23, 2016 - 11:13pm | The Star Wars universe is in something of a state of technological stasis. As a 25,000+ year-old galactic government, it has reached (by and large) the limits of technological innovation within it's milleau. |
 February 24, 2016 - 3:01am | Star Wars jumped all over the "tech level" stasis map. If you watch them in chronological order (meaning episodes 1-7 versus actual release dates) the prequels had much more upbeat "glitz & glam" tech than the original trilogy that takes place 20 years later. Then, fast forward another 30 years from the OT a la Force Awakens --- aside from a few OT nods via the Falcon --- and the glitz/glam tech ramps up again. Throw in the Clone Wars & Rebels CGI animated series and you'll see how the Y-Wing and B-Wing "devolved" along with other such oddities when considering the timelines. |
February 24, 2016 - 10:24am | Star Wars has a couple of things going for it that cover the tech levels that have nothing to do with the setting. One was the time span the stories were made over. Not the story time but the real time. Film and General Technology has change alot since the first movie was made in 1976. Some of the appearing to change tech is just that the newer film crews never used any of the older methods and or tech and just went with what they new. Kinda like the joke of a milienial being presented with a rotary phone and being totally clueless about how to use it. Second if the format. Video and Cartoon formats are very different. With the artists (model makers, CGI graphic designers and cartoonists) not feeling a need to exactly copy each other differences were bound to creep in but are not really significant tech differences. For real life lets use the Corvette (in honor of Mark Hamill's Corvette Summer movie) The car model has been around for what 50 or 60 years? Yes the current ones are vastly different technology wise then the originals but those were very slow creep in differences with an occasional big leap eight tracks to tape decks to cd players to mp3 players to live streamers in the entertainment portion. Star Wars fighters have some differences in models but there is no big tech leaps in them. We see the controls and systems have pretty much stayed the same except where you can input the first and second paragraphs here. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 24, 2016 - 2:04pm | Star Wars Rebels B-Wing (pre-New Hope, later "introduced" in ROTJ): Yeah, I'd say that's a bit of a technological jump backwards going from "Death Star blast" (chronologically speaking, we haven't actually seen a death star blast yet) which quickly destroys an Imperial cruiser to individual laser shots that do...nothing. |
February 25, 2016 - 12:17am | Star Wars jumped all over the "tech level" stasis map. If you watch them in chronological order (meaning episodes 1-7 versus actual release dates) the prequels had much more upbeat "glitz & glam" tech than the original trilogy that takes place 20 years later. Then, fast forward another 30 years from the OT a la Force Awakens --- aside from a few OT nods via the Falcon --- and the glitz/glam tech ramps up again. Throw in the Clone Wars & Rebels CGI animated series and you'll see how the Y-Wing and B-Wing "devolved" along with other such oddities when considering the timelines. No, the aesthetic jumped around, not the tech level. And that was mostly on the Alliance side. The Imperials looked much the same in all three eras. |
February 25, 2016 - 11:25am | The Imperials looked much the same in all three eras.
I dunno, I distinctly recall seeing episode 1-3 clone troopers and episode 7 stormtroopers actually hitting their targets. The reason for that? The OT troopers were using old World War II British Sterlings converted to laser use. GM also learned the hard way that a gas to diesel conversion engine would be a complete and utter failure.  |
February 26, 2016 - 6:36am | Again, when considering other 'universes' such as Star Wars and Star Frontiers one has to bear in mind that they're not our 'universe'. This means that different rules apply and perhaps trying to overlay ours onto them isn't really worthwhile. |
 December 9, 2016 - 10:31pm | *sorry ... late to the party* First, I'd consider myself a canon-monger - for my own game. If its backed by the rules as written in SFAD, SFKH or a published adventure for it - excluding 2001, 2010, and Zebs, then its "canon" to me. And the rest is not. That doesn't mean non-canon is non-usable, it's your game to have your fun with. Rather, I would consider the SFAD, SFKH, and core modules except 2001, 2010, and Zebs to be the "core Star Frontier's bible" in the same way that TV show runners have a show bible that says what is and is not allowed. For example, in SF canon, or the SF bible, we have FTL in the form of The Void. It works a specific way, and changing that can have game breaking consequences for SFKH. So, Star Trek style Warp Drive, or Star Wars style hyperspace just doesn't fit because it breaks something in the bible. Does that mean Star Frontiers needs to be in stasis? I think not. Many sci-fi games have the concept of "tech levels" for things - Traveller, GURPS, and Living Steel for example. This lets you have technology mapped over time. Can do the same for Star Frontiers pretty easily. In the core books listed above, there are roughly 6 implied time periods, which I call eras: 1. The Early Frontier era where all of the races from outside sectors first explore the region on our maps, each race settles, meets the others, and gets into tenative trade and the early megacorps spin up. The 302PF settlement of Dramune by Dralasites would be in here. 2. The First Sathar War - the initial incursion by the Sathar into the Frontier, through First Sathar War in 3PF to the formation of the UPF in FY0 3. The early UPF era FY0+ life in the frontier standardizes and adjusts under the UPF - Star Law is busy fighting the incursion and infiltrators, mega-corps consolidate and get to cold and hot warring. 4. The Second Sathar War - this is where SF Alpha Dawn and Knight Hawks are set - the Second Sathar War starts with the Pan Galactic Security Breach, incursion onto Volturnus in SF0, SF1 and SF2, with the Traitor and Battle for White Light from SFKH0, and the Second Sathar War itself played out in the SFKH campaign book... somewhere around FY60-61 5. The UPF after the Second Sathar War - I call this FY61 where Dramune Run is set since it seems 2SW is no longer going on but all the rest of Knight Hawks is in play... this is where the SF3, SF4, SFAD5, SFAD6, and SFKH1 happen and then SFKH2-4 Beyond the Frontier series 10 years later. 6. Zebulon's Guide - decades after era #5 The ships and equipment from SFAD Basic and Expanded Rules and Knight Hawks are basically the standard for the Second Sathar War era #4 The research ship and added Sathar models from Beyond the Frontier fit into era #5 The equipment expansions in Zebs are later in era #6 With a basic concept of "tech levels" - you can then project forward or backward and get a feel for how each piece of equipment, technology, or vehicle would fit. But nothing says you can't go even further - there's no need for stasis, just picking a point in the time line, and sticking to how the tech level then works, for consistency. Just stick to the givens/bible for Star Frontiers in your core game, and explore and have fun around the edges where the core left things open to interpretation or expansion. |
